Review of / Measurement on Charger module with TP4056 controller

eatkabab

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Hi guys.

I am new in this DIY charging batteries and I wanted to make my own battery pack from 2 18650 batteries 5300mAh to have a total of 7.4v with 5300mAh. Now I already bought the USB charging circuit TP4056. However, I don't have an idea on how exactly i should connect the batteries to this circuit in order to be able to charge and use the batteries at the same time without removing the batteries from my project enclosure. Also, does the TP4056 needs a PCM board in order to work or it has built in protection.

I have used the diagram here http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/lipo.html for wiring but it didn't give me any information about the protection circuit, I am little bit confused here. :shakehead

Thanks for your help.

Sorry for the delayed response. First off, a 5300mah 7.4v two cell pack is not possible. I assume you're trying to use 2x2650mah cells in series to get the 7.4v but the capacity isn't additive. You either get 3.7v at double the capacity or 7.4v at the same capacity. Anything else would not conserve energy. 5300 x 7.4 = ~39Wh but if you have a 2650 cell at 3.7v, 2650 x 3.7 = ~10Wh. Two cells cannot produce more than 20Wh combined in any parallel/series configuration. If this isn't clear, look up the difference between series and parallel. You're also probably at a very very basic level and I would not advise you to be messing with custom lipo cells.

As for the charger and pack you want to produce, what you're trying to do is again, not advised. You cannot charge two lipo cells off a charger designed to charge a single cell. You want 7.4v but the charger you've chosen is only designed to charge up to 4.2v on a single cell.

Some really basic info about lipo charging:
- The charger generates 4.2v constant
- current is applied to the cell and the cells voltage is constantly monitored
- as the cell approaches the maximum charged voltage of 4.2v, the current is slowly reduced
- at 4.2v charging is turned OFF. No trickle charging
(I may not be 100% right about the 4.2v constant voltage but I'm pretty sure)


What you need is a charger designed for TWO cells. This means that EACH cell has a +/- lead attached to the charging board. This is absolutely required for balancing of cells. You cannot have one cell that has more capacity than another. If that were the case, one cell would drain while the other is still chugging away...the drained cell will fall below the critical ~3.0v and will be damaged or potentially burst into flames/heat up a lot.

The other issue is cell protection. The protection circuit is designed to avoid the cell being overcharged or over discharged (bursting into flames, or, thermal runaway). You can buy cells that have built in protection circuits (advised), or you can use a power management board which both charges/balances the cells while also protecting EACH cell from over/under voltage. In the latter scenario your +/- terminal to whatever application you're using it with would come off the POWER MANAGEMENT BOARD and NOT from the cells themselves. The board must be specifically designed to take 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 whatever number cells and provide you with 3.7, 7.4, 11.1, 22.2v whatever voltage...basically must be designed to operate with parallel/series designed circuitry.

Due to this very custom design necessity, there aren't very many readily available power management boards that are cheap. Even fewer offer a simple charging solution in addition to power management. They'll often need some specific voltage and minimum current to be applied to the charging leads. Not to mention it would be very inefficient trying to charge more than a single cell off a very convenient cell phone charger. Instead, the typical model is to have a separate cell charger that charges single protected cells then drop those cells into a flashlight, plane, robot, laser, whatever you're using them for. Take them out when they're drained and recharge. Or the modern R/C model of having cells linked in simple 1S, 3S, 4S...with a balance wire which just has + leads from each cell and a common ground so the charger can balance the cells.

There is one semi trick you could do however. You could hook up two protected cells to a single TP4056 in parallel but operate them in series. I'm not 100% sure how this would work, but I imagine during charging, the charger would just keep going for a longer period since the charge current is being split (you'll want a higher charge current but mind the charging chip heat). One charging issue however would be if the cells eventually become unbalanced, one would charge to max first and the charger would just cut out and not charge the other cell. During discharge they should operate normally until again over time they become unbalanced; one cell will drop to the 3.0v minimum and cut out. So this method is not really advised (at least not for several charge/discharge cycles).

If you really want embedded cells, your best bet is probably just using two TP4056 boards and two cell phone chargers. Wire your cells in series to get your 7.4v but have separate circuits for charging also hooked up to the cells. Don't ever use soldering solution on electronic boards, but it's highly advised to use some sort of soldering agent when soldering lipo cells to avoid overheating them with the solder/iron.

Hope that helps, good luck.
 
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Squashie

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Do u know if this board can be used to charge the battery and power a devise simultaneously?

For example i want to power an led while charging the battery.
 

WingLoader

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If you really want embedded cells, your best bet is probably just using two TP4056 boards and two cell phone chargers. Wire your cells in series to get your 7.4v but have separate circuits for charging also hooked up to the cells. Don't ever use soldering solution on electronic boards, but it's highly advised to use some sort of soldering agent when soldering lipo cells to avoid overheating them with the solder/iron.

Hope that helps, good luck.

I made a 3 cell "pack" in series. I put taps on each cell. On each charging board I put a volt meter module so I can see the voltage of each cell. If I plug a USB charger into each board (3 chargers) I can charge each cell independently and track the voltage with the little meters.

I thought it would be neat to power all three boards with a common power supply. I used an old ATX power supply and used the 5v supply wire and used it as a common +5 on each board. Well, don't do that. When I plugged in the first cell tap...3.86 volts and charging. When I plugged in the second cell to the second board, smoke and two fried boards.

It seems like there is a reverse flow of current from the two cells going back through the boards because the negative side of one cell is connected to the positive side of the other cell. Would putting diodes somewhere in there isolate the cells? I read something about using an isolated ground charging method.

I have an AR Drone and there is a balanced charger. It uses the "taps" to charge each cell independently to make sure they are balanced. I am effectively trying to do the same thing by using these 1 dollar units. Any advice on how to use a common power supply to three boards so that I can charge three cells independently even though they are soldered in series?

Thanks!
Joe
 

InHisName

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Three independent 5v supplies would work for sure.
Possibly one 15v supply with 5v & 10v 'taps', now you have 3x5v but they are connected to each other. As long as nothing is grounded, it 'might' work.
 

BringerOfLight

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I made a 3 cell "pack" in series. I put taps on each cell. On each charging board I put a volt meter module so I can see the voltage of each cell. If I plug a USB charger into each board (3 chargers) I can charge each cell independently and track the voltage with the little meters.

I thought it would be neat to power all three boards with a common power supply.
The input ground goes directly to the battery '-' output. So if you use the same power supply with multiple boards, you get a short. You need separate power supplies with separate grounds (a single supply with multiple outputs will likely have a shared ground for those outputs).
 

WingLoader

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The input ground goes directly to the battery '-' output. So if you use the same power supply with multiple boards, you get a short. You need separate power supplies with separate grounds (a single supply with multiple outputs will likely have a shared ground for those outputs).

Yup. That is what happened. The chargers for 3 cell packs that use the balanced "taps" to charge individual cells must have special circuitry to prevent what is occurring to me.

I came up with a Rube Goldberg way to do it. I am going to put a double pole switch that disconnects the connections between the batteries when I am charging. :)
 

kosPap

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hi all! i have two questions on the board.

1. I intend on recreating the cottonpickers charger but i will be addign a voltage display of 3-12Volt.
I want to be able to measure 12V SLA batetries with it (as well as my 18650s) but hooking the leads on a 12V battery it will also backfeeding 12V to the board.
Do you think it will take it? Should I add a diode and on what pole?

2. What would the board output if the power in is less than a USB 1A supply?
 
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HKJ

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hi all! i have a question on the board.

I intend on recreating the cottonpickers charger but i will be addign a voltage display of 3-12Volt.
I want to be able to measure 12V SLA batetries with it (as well as my 18650s) but hooking the leads on a 12V battery it will also backfeeding 12V to the board.
Do you think it will take it? Should I add a diode and on what pole?

I doubt it will take it and adding a diode would be a bad idea, because it would interfere with the charging.
 

BringerOfLight

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1. I intend on recreating the cottonpickers charger but i will be addign a voltage display of 3-12Volt.
IMO, it's not a good design. The display is powered from the battery side, so when power is disconnected or the charger is finished charging, the battery will be drained (you expect those displays to draw <15mA). There are 3/4 lead voltage displays that have a power input (you would connect that to 5V) and a measurement input, so you won't drain the battery. Make sure sure you get one with enough accuracy/resolution in the 3 - 4.3V range.
I want to be able to measure 12V SLA batetries with it (as well as my 18650s) but hooking the leads on a 12V battery it will also backfeeding 12V to the board.
I would just get another display, they are extremely cheap in China (eBay). I don't think there is a simple solution protecting the TP4056 from the 12V (and you will most certainly fry it with that).
2. What would the board output if the power in is less than a USB 1A supply?
If the TP4056 is configured for 1A (there is a resistor that is used to set the charge current), you will likely fry the power supply (unless it has good current limiting). The TP is a linear regulator, meaning input current is equal to output/charge current.
 

thegreatfixer

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thank you for the review it was very in depth
i have a few questions
do you know if this or the new boards (w/reverse polarity protection) with Micro USB can work as a regulated ~4.2v CONSTANT power supply

if i wanted to take an led light and run it all the time AND have 1 or 2 18650 as a backup power source can the TP4056 do both power the light and charge the batteries and in case of power failure run of the now fully charged batteries
???

thank you
thegreatfixer
 

HKJ

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do you know if this or the new boards (w/reverse polarity protection) with Micro USB can work as a regulated ~4.2v CONSTANT power supply

I have not tried it, but it might work in some cases. Remember that the chip turns off current when output load is below a specific current.


if i wanted to take an led light and run it all the time AND have 1 or 2 18650 as a backup power source can the TP4056 do both power the light and charge the batteries and in case of power failure run of the now fully charged batteries

The chip will charge the batteries, if they are never filled up (due to current drain) I believe that the chip will continue to charge. If they get filled up the chip will turn off, but turn on again when the voltage drops below 4 volt.
Keeping you batteries at full voltage permanently will reduce the lifetime of them.
 

sandalian

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Thanks for your review HKJ, this is the thing I'm looking for.

If I'm about to build a sub 100mAh charger (just like for battery 10180) what size is the replacement resistor? Please advise.

Thanks!
 

HKJ

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If I'm about to build a sub 100mAh charger (just like for battery 10180) what size is the replacement resistor? Please advise.

Check the datasheet, it has a table and the formula.
I am not sure that the manufacturer recommends using the chip with current below about 100mA, but you can always try.
 

thegreatfixer

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I have not tried it, but it might work in some cases. Remember that the chip turns off current when output load is below a specific current.

The chip will charge the batteries, if they are never filled up (due to current drain) I believe that the chip will continue to charge. If they get filled up the chip will turn off, but turn on again when the voltage drops below 4 volt.
Keeping you batteries at full voltage permanently will reduce the lifetime of them.

thanks i am looking for a way to use 18650 in emergency lights and even always on lights

BTW with the NEW MICRO USB boards with 2 pin outs for +&- i would like to get screw terminals for them do you know if they are 5mm or 3.8mm or 2.5mm
 
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samgab

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Just got a few of these TP4056 charging boards and a few 18650 holders, all for chump change. Really good little charger. Amazing to think the price 18650 CC/CV chargers used to go for.
I've done a bit of my own testing on the ones I received, checked the max V level, and the current levels etc, and it's all perfectly safe. I'm very impressed.
 

cloudbuster

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Hi, I would like to know if by combining the board with a solar panel I would get a safe charger or if I am missing something.
solar panel 2.5W 5V 500mA
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CBT8A14/?tag=cpf0b6-20 do all solar panel keep the LED off during the day while they charge?
also would I need a one way diode?

Boards
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AUDQWXQ/?tag=cpf0b6-20
or
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QGVP944/?tag=cpf0b6-20

is to replace a patio solar panel LED that does not charge the 3.7 li bat fully

thanks.
 
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