ROP

[z_regency]

Hi everyone, i would like to say this is a very useful forum and this is my first post here!



Ive been looking into the ROP Mod for my 2D mag, and it led me here time and time again. So i started looking for the parts and actually bought the Big D bulbs and UCL lense. Went to sandwich shoppe and was going to order the reflector and battery adapter, but there not in stock.



So my main question right now is where can i get a good cammed reflector (i want the stock mag adjust) and the 6AA to 2D adapter???

 

[InHisName]

Re: ROP
Written by mrartillery on 11-28-2010 10:19 AM GMT

You can get cammed reflectors fromhere,
although you will be much better off not using the cam feature IMO. A
MOP reflector will have a good balance of both spill and throw
eliminating the need for the cam. As for the adapter, I think Fivemega
has sold out of them, so you might want to check Mdocod's OddMods page,
Im sure he will have some.


Re: ROP
Written by jaundice on 11-28-2010 06:35 PM GMT

I need to respectfully disagree with Mr. Artillery on using a
cammed reflector for a ROP build. I've always found that they worked
great. The reflectors he linked to work great, and the cam is
removable, so you can figure out what works for you. I've had several
Mdocod and FM battery holders, and they both work great.

You haven't mentioned what sort of AA batteries you intend to use. The
overall favorite around here is the Sanyo Eneloop. If you check out the
large hobby websites, you can find chargers that will charge your
battery pack without removing the batteries. These are well worth it.

Good luck on your ROP build. It's a classic and one of my favorites.
It's the perfect way to start out with hotwire lights. The ROP-High is a
crowd pleaser, and the ROP-low is extremely useful.

-John


Re: ROP
Written by regency on 11-28-2010 06:53 PM GMT

thanks fellas. i havent decided on the AA's yet, but im finding alot of them being built using 2 - 18650's.

I bought the reflector with removable cam from kaidomain along with some
of their cheap 3AA to 1D adapters. Patiently waiting for parts to
arrive!!!! I have a feeling i will be building several of these and
selling them around here. Ive already got all my friends buying new
lights around town...lol they will call me and be like HEYYY man i got a
new light!!! Anywhere from browning to energizer to inova and surefire
to streamlite, all of which are some really good lights.


Re: ROP
Written by KevinL on 11-29-2010 08:21 AM GMT

You may want to be careful with the cheap 3AA adapters, they may
not be designed for the ultra-high-amperage draw of the ROP. If you've
got the capability to measure resistance and/or test them to make sure
they don't overheat that would be a good idea.

The kaidomain reflector works well but they take forever to ship it seems.

Use good batteries and the ROP will reward you (just as it will punish you quickly if you don't

) Eneloops are recommended if you use NiMH.

The low bulb is more forgiving of batteries, adapters, holders, and such
due to its lower requirements. High is fun though. Good luck with your
build

Re: ROP
Written by KiwiMark on 11-29-2010 11:42 AM GMT

thanks fellas. i havent decided on the AA's yet, but im finding alot of them being built using 2 - 18650's.

I bought the reflector with removable cam from kaidomain

If you are building several you could try one of these reflectors: If you are building several you could try one of these reflectors: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...veMega-%282%29

Personally I prefer the 18650 path to the 6 x AA - only 2 batteries to charge and better voltage.


Re: ROP
Written by jaundice on 11-29-2010 12:03 PM GMT

Just to second what KevinL mentioned: those KD 3AA>1D adaptors
are only rated to 1 amp. A ROP-low runs at almost double that, not to
mention a ROP-high. I would seriously think twice about using them. If
you do end up using them, be sure to solder the metal contacts
together. They're just crimped together, and the current will arc where
the crimps aren't tight. You'll not only get a lot of resistance and
lower output, but heat and potential meltdown.

A Fivemega or Mdocod adapter, though much more expensive, is the way to go.

Good luck,

-John


Re: ROP
Written by mrartillery on 11-29-2010 04:25 PM GMT

Just to second what KevinL mentioned: those KD
3AA>1D adaptors are only rated to 1 amp. A ROP-low runs at almost
double that, not to mention a ROP-high. I would seriously think twice
about using them. If you do end up using them, be sure to solder the
metal contacts together. They're just crimped together, and the current
will arc where the crimps aren't tight. You'll not only get a lot of
resistance and lower output, but heat and potential meltdown.

A Fivemega or Mdocod adapter, though much more expensive, is the way to go.

Good luck,

-John

+3, your light output will be very poor with these adapters, way
to much resistance for the light to function at peak performance. +3, your light output will be very poor with these adapters, way
to much resistance for the light to function at peak performance.


Re: ROP
Written by regency on 11-29-2010 07:49 PM GMT

Yea im probably goin to throw them in the parts box and go the
18650 route because i didnt like them when i saw them. I saw that
reflector from fivemega right after i bought the other! The expense
isnt a problem just thought they were soldout!


Re: ROP
Written by jaundice on 11-29-2010 09:22 PM GMT

regency;

Do you already have 18650s? If not, you might want to consider getting
IMR 26500s for this build. You already have a 2D mag, and these will
fit a bit better. One thing to consider is that the mag tailsprings are
very strong. You might need to shorten or replace them when using
either 18650s or 26500s. In fact, I had an 18650 vent (luckily, without
flames or explosions) the first time I tried to cram 2x18650s into a 2D
mag. One of the ribs around the positive contacts crimped the
protection circuit, causing a dead short. This is one reason I'm a big
believer in using AW cells. The battery got hot, but the protection
valve opened, and the electrolyte leaked out, preventing an explosion or
fire. Yes, I was really lucky.

-John


Re: ROP
Written by regency on 11-30-2010 01:02 PM GMT

yes i already have the AW protected 18650's! All i bought was 2 of
them though. I have a lathe so i can machine the end cap if needed, and
by looks of it i will need to cut it a tad.

By the way i love lighthound shipping!!!!


Re: ROP
Written by Phaserburn on 11-30-2010 01:17 PM GMT

I have a couple of 6AA - 2D adapters from fivemega, loaded with
fresh eneloops that I will be selling if you're interested. PM me.
They are very high quality stuff.


Re: ROP
Written by regency on 11-30-2010 01:44 PM GMT

PM Sent!!


Re: ROP
Written by alpg88 on 11-30-2010 02:24 PM GMT

i agree on 18650, no need for imr, aw protected will work, rop
high is like 4A aw 2600 will work fine up to 5A, 2900 even better, if
their pcb will work first click with wa1185, that it will deffinatly
work with rop. plus aw 18650 almost 2x the capacitty of imr cells.

as for cam, in my rop bifocal reflector it is useless, bulb focuses
right at the highest position, any other position makes crappy beam with
rings, and donut holes. i tried removing cam, i didn'e see any
difference.

2c 2x18650 is the perfect rop set up, imo


Re: ROP
Written by Mjolnir on 11-30-2010 03:10 PM GMT

i agree on 18650, no need for imr, aw
protected will work, rop high is like 4A aw 2600 will work fine up to
5A, 2900 even better, if their pcb will work first click with wa1185,
that it will deffinatly work with rop. plus aw 18650 almost 2x the
capacitty of imr cells.

as for cam, in my rop bifocal reflector it is useless, bulb focuses
right at the highest position, any other position makes crappy beam with
rings, and donut holes. i tried removing cam, i didn'e see any
difference.

2c 2x18650 is the perfect rop set up, imo

Actually no, you can't assume that they will work the AW cells
simply because the 1185 does. The 1185 draws around 3.5 amps when driven
hard according to Luxluthor's tests, while my ROP draws AT LEAST 4.4
amps on fresh cells. This is a significant difference, and drawing that
much current from traditional LiCO cells is not the best idea (because
of their higher internal resistance the bulb will probably draw only
around 4 amps because the voltage will be lower). Actually no, you can't assume that they will work the AW cells
simply because the 1185 does. The 1185 draws around 3.5 amps when driven
hard according to Luxluthor's tests, while my ROP draws AT LEAST 4.4
amps on fresh cells. This is a significant difference, and drawing that
much current from traditional LiCO cells is not the best idea (because
of their higher internal resistance the bulb will probably draw only
around 4 amps because the voltage will be lower).

Just because the PCB allows that high amount of current to be drawn does
not mean that it is good for that chemistry of cells. Lico cells
shouldn't really be discharged at a rate of much over 1C or they will
have much shorter lifespan; an ROP is pushing 2C for most cells. I would
suggest IMR cells of some kind instead; 26650s will also give you much
longer runtime than 18650s with not much added size (2 will fit in a 2d
light).


Re: ROP
Written by alpg88 on 11-30-2010 05:17 PM GMT

Actually no, you can't assume that they will
work the AW cells simply because the 1185 does. The 1185 draws around
3.5 amps when driven hard according to Luxluthor's tests, while my ROP
draws AT LEAST 4.4 amps on fresh cells. This is a significant
difference, and drawing that much current from traditional LiCO cells is
not the best idea (because of their higher internal resistance the bulb
will probably draw only around 4 amps because the voltage will be
lower).

Just because the PCB allows that high amount of current to be drawn does
not mean that it is good for that chemistry of cells. Lico cells
shouldn't really be discharged at a rate of much over 1C or they will
have much shorter lifespan; an ROP is pushing 2C for most cells. I would
suggest IMR cells of some kind instead; 26650s will also give you much
longer runtime than 18650s with not much added size (2 will fit in a 2d
light).

1 lol, no 1 lol, no

2. my mag 85 pulled 4,2A due to resistance of the switch\tail or other
reason unknown to me. that is real world mesurment, have you mesured
yours? aw cells worked just fine in my 3x18650 light. so did unprotected
cells before.

3. less than 2c is fine for aw cell, according to AW, what you think
about it is your opinion, yes lower current is easier on cells, but they
are capable of 2c.

4. 26650 wont fit in 2c, my entire post was about 2c,.. hey 6d cells even better, they fit in 6D,


Re: ROP
Written by regency on 11-30-2010 07:26 PM GMT

how long should i expect the bulbs to last with the 2 x 18650's


Re: ROP
Written by alpg88 on 11-30-2010 09:25 PM GMT

you mean runtime, or bulb life in hours???

if you use aw 2900, (granted at 4+A draw they will be less than rated
capacity) pbly around 30 min, or so, imr cells are rated 1600, they are
made for high drain devices, they will pbly be at their rated capacity
at 4-5a load, but still less than aw cells.

imr are as sensitive to over discharge as Li co cells, they are safer,
meaning they wont blow up, but they will die just as easy as Li co cells
if overdischaged, the difference is Li co are protected, you can't over
discharge them, (in theory), you would want imr when your draw is 5+
amps or so.

obviously bigger cells like imr 26650 will run for 2x as long,
approximately, but you have to be carefull not to kill them, leave the
light on someplace, when you come back in few hours your imr cells will
be dead (i have killed few 26650 this way) if you got protected cells,
pcb will shut it off, the cells will be fine after you recharge them.

as for bulb life, i have no idea, but it will be defiantly cut by
driving it a lot harder (6v vs 8,4v) i can't even find any data on bulb
life at designed voltage 6v, my rop high bulb lasts about 10 hours or
so, i honestly expect it to go anytime.


Re: ROP
Written by fivemega on 11-30-2010 09:26 PM GMT

2. my mag 85 pulled 4,2A due to resistance of
the switch\tail or other reason unknown to me. that is real world
mesurment, have you mesured yours? aw cells worked just fine in my
3x18650 light. so did unprotected cells before.

[SIZE=+1]WA1185 will definitely poof at 4.2 Amps. You may need to measure with another meter.[/SIZE]

3. less than 2c is fine for aw cell,

[SIZE=+1]That's true but if PCB can handle the initial spike.

AW's protected 18650 cells can handle the spike of WA1111 which takes
about 3.6 Amps. That's just about the maximum for single click on
mentioned cells.

ROP 3854 HO takes about 4.4 Amps at voltage of 2 Li-Ion. I haven't seen
any Li-Cobalt protected cell to power up ROP HO with single click yet.

2S/2P AW 18650 (2.9) will run this bulb easily with single click for 75 minutes and very flat voltage curve.[/SIZE]


Re: ROP
Written by alpg88 on 11-30-2010 09:36 PM GMT

you do have a point on start spike, i did use soft start, (inrush
current limiter), when used protected cells, it did trip protection
before, sorry, i forgot to mention that little detail.

i'll check my dmm, never noticed it being that much off, but anything is possible.



Re: ROP
Written by regency on 12-01-2010 07:37 PM GMT

all i can say is awesome!!! got it put together minus aluminum
reflector, kaidomain hasnt shipped it yet. So i guess its only time now
before the stocker melts....


Re: ROP
Written by cache529 on 12-01-2010 08:05 PM GMT

i agree on 18650, no need for imr, aw
protected will work, rop high is like 4A aw 2600 will work fine up to
5A, 2900 even better, if their pcb will work first click with wa1185,
that it will deffinatly work with rop. plus aw 18650 almost 2x the
capacitty of imr cells.

as for cam, in my rop bifocal reflector it is useless, bulb focuses
right at the highest position, any other position makes crappy beam with
rings, and donut holes. i tried removing cam, i didn'e see any
difference.

2c 2x18650 is the perfect rop set up, imo

I've tried ROP 3854 HO with 2x AW 18650 2600. It needs two
clicks. But ROP LO works great on them. Not sure about AW's 2900 mAh
since I haven't tried them. I've tried ROP 3854 HO with 2x AW 18650 2600. It needs two
clicks. But ROP LO works great on them. Not sure about AW's 2900 mAh
since I haven't tried them.



Re: ROP
Written by KevinL on 12-02-2010 01:16 AM GMT

all i can say is awesome!!! got it put
together minus aluminum reflector, kaidomain hasnt shipped it yet. So i
guess its only time now before the stocker melts....

Use the high bulb VERY sparingly and watch for molten plastic Use the high bulb VERY sparingly and watch for molten plastic

The stock reflector has better survivability with the low bulb if you
want to play for more than a few seconds at a time. It'll melt
eventually though, but you already know that and you're prepared for it.


Re: ROP
Written by Phaserburn on 12-02-2010 07:20 AM GMT

[SIZE=+1]WA1185 will definitely poof at 4.2 Amps. You may need to measure with another meter.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1] I haven't seen any Li-Cobalt protected cell to power up ROP HO with single click yet.
[/SIZE]

I run my ROP on protected 32650 D li-ions, and they always power up the Hi bulb with a single click. I run my ROP on protected 32650 D li-ions, and they always power up the Hi bulb with a single click.


Re: ROP
Written by KiwiMark on 12-02-2010 12:33 PM GMT

I run my ROP on protected 32650 D li-ions, and they always power up the Hi bulb with a single click.

KD 326500 cells? Mine won't power up at all even with double or
10x clicking, I'm going to try adding a thermistor for a soft start so I
don't have to use unprotected cells. KD 326500 cells? Mine won't power up at all even with double or
10x clicking, I'm going to try adding a thermistor for a soft start so I
don't have to use unprotected cells.



Re: ROP
Written by alpg88 on 12-02-2010 02:20 PM GMT

i had the same problem with the same cells, thou i tried 50w halogen mr16, thermistor solved the problem.
this one is for C mag, i made the same one for D mag,

Re: ROP
Written by Colonel Sanders on 12-02-2010 02:46 PM GMT

"[SIZE=+1]2S/2P AW 18650 (2.9) will run this bulb easily with single click for 75 minutes and very flat voltage curve."[/SIZE]

I can attest to that. My 2s2p runs the ROP high very well. 1st click
every time. With the 2900s charged to 4.17v it'll start off at about
7.75v and then settle in at about 7.65 after about 10 seconds and then
hold 7.60v for a very long while after than. This setup really drives
this bulb to it's potential.

I was running the 5761 bulb just as well until I did a few resistance fixes that pushed it over the cliff.

No big deal since I've found that I actually like the ROP high better
due to the beam looking great with FM's bi-focal reflector, much cooler
running, longer run time, and it actually looks brighter to my eye (I
guess the ROP high being able to withstand the resistance fixes causes
it to be as bright or brighter than the 5761 without resistance fixes.)

I highly recommend this 2s2p host for running the ROP.

Re: ROP
Written by jaundice on 12-02-2010 04:04 PM GMT

What sort of host are you guys using for your 2S/2P setups? Is it a stock mag host that you're modding?

-John


Re: ROP
Written by regency on 12-02-2010 05:45 PM GMT

LOL.....oops!! Reflector started changin colors at the glass end


Re: ROP
Written by Phaserburn on 12-02-2010 06:02 PM GMT

KD 326500 cells? Mine won't power up at all
even with double or 10x clicking, I'm going to try adding a thermistor
for a soft start so I don't have to use unprotected cells.

Not KD. Xtar. Not KD. Xtar.