Runtime indicator to show remaining battery life??

[HenryE]

One of our clients has a patent pending on a countdown timer for flashlights that use emitter/battery combinations with predictable runtimes. It resets to some value when the cells are replaced, can be adjusted by the user to reflect experience, and then, whenever the light is ON it counts down to show runtime remaining. There's an algorithm to handle duty cycle. Obviously, the LCD shows remaining runtime whether the flashlight is turned ON or not - so on picking it up one can know just what's left. The design works with rechargeables, too, and allows for a dialog with the charger.

This can be integrated into new products, or added onto existing ones.

We couldn't find any issued patents or existing products embodying this invention, and we like the way the patent application was written. Also, the inventor has the history and notebooks to thoroughly substantiate his invention.

Before we start throwing resources at this, has anyone here seen anything like it? I'm not concerned about disclosing the information here - it's patent pending and well documented.

Thanks!

 

[357]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

[ QUOTE ]
HenryE said:
One of our clients has a patent pending on a countdown timer for flashlights that use emitter/battery combinations with predictable runtimes. It resets to some value when the cells are replaced, can be adjusted by the user to reflect experience, and then, whenever the light is ON it counts down to show runtime remaining. There's an algorithm to handle duty cycle. Obviously, the LCD shows remaining runtime whether the flashlight is turned ON or not - so on picking it up one can know just what's left. The design works with rechargeables, too, and allows for a dialog with the charger.

This can be integrated into new products, or added onto existing ones.

We couldn't find any issued patents or existing products embodying this invention, and we like the way the patent application was written. Also, the inventor has the history and notebooks to thoroughly substantiate his invention.

Before we start throwing resources at this, has anyone here seen anything like it? I'm not concerned about disclosing the information here - it's patent pending and well documented.

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen some flashlights with a crude form of this--i.e. 3 led lights on the body: red means 25% battery power/replace, yellow means 50% or less power / weak, green means strong >50% battery power.


I like your idea of a number, but I think it should also show minutes (or more precisely, just display minutes (i.e. 10 hours power = 600 minutes). Think this would sell I do, assuming its reliable and doesn't add that much to the cost of the lights.

 

[HenryE]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

Thanks - the runtime countdown IS in minutes. When batteries are replaced, the unit resets to some preset value (say, 300 minutes for my luxeon unit). If I know better, based on experience, I can increment or decrement that number by pushing a button with a ballpen or whatever. Thereafter, whenever the light is ON the clock is ticking DOWN. At any moment, I can look at it and see how many minutes are left.

It uses virtually no power (same as a digital watch), and cost is minimal.

 

[franken2]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

WOW, Now that's HI-TECH. I'd like one on all my lights!

 

[cobb]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

Sounds like a good idea. I know from electric wheelchair use most battery meters either read voltage or a relationship between current voltage and last use. So if you run it lightly a day then moderate it will read nearly dead. Next day you use it same amount it will read higher and if you truely run it dead, it will read full for a few days regardless of use. So, in other words its highly inefficient at giving you anything than a guess at what the state is and how much is remaining.

I too have had lights with a meter on them, 3 color lights and it is not too accurate. It can be green, but if a cell is bad, you flick it on and it can fall flat on its face. I had that often when running nicads in it.

 

[HenryE]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif
To me, the good news is that (so far, at least) no one has said "That's already available." Encouraging!

 

[PeLu]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

A couple of years ago, several well known companies (including Intel, TI, LT, Benchmarq even Microsoft) defined something which is called 'smart battery standard'.
The idea was to make a chip (which will be very inexpensive due to mass production) which does all you describe above and much more. It is the decision of the designer how much she/he uses from this features.
The main idea was that there is very little or no calibration necessary for secondary cells. The circuit calibrates intself.
It also includes self discharge depending from the temperature and numerous other values. With the approbriate hardware even some history could be read out....

BTW, when Molicell came with the first rechargeable lithium chemistry to the market (was it 20 years ago?) it had an almost linear discharge curve over a pretty wide volatge range. While this made some kind of regulation necessary, it also offered the opportuntity to make a quite simple and accurate 'fuel gauge'.
The beta test comunity toild that it is quite nice to have a higher capacity, lower weight, good low temp behaviour, but the response to the 'fuel gauege' was overwhelming.

Besides all that, shouldn't that thread be moved into the approbriate place? Please moderators....

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

that would work with some incans or regulated LED lights but with unregulated LEDs you would have to determine what you think is *out of juice* because the LED lights keep getting dimmer until useful light varies according to what you are doing with it. Some people think 50% brightness is a good cutoff number or a certain amount of mcd output or something. I would have to have an idea how flexible the programming is, perhaps ability to have a first run that times how long you have it on and uses that number as the time for total run when you reach the point you think the light is too dim.

 

[Lurveleven]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

Henry I don't think this is worthy of a patent since it is not truly a unique idea, but the patent offices give patents on anything these days so... (makes me wonder what people they hire).
It would make more sense to combine such a meter with a regulated light and having a "learning mode" where the batteries got analyzed.

Self discharge of NiMH batteries would be a big problem with your countdown timer scheme.

Sigbjoern

 

[enLIGHTenment]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

It's way too obvious a concept to be worth a patent. However, with patent offices these days giving out patents for such wonderfully original inventions as the wheel, feel free to knock yourself out.


Additionally, both self discharge and temperature variations are going to throw a crowbar in the works.

 

[PeLu]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

[ QUOTE ]
enLIGHTenment said:Additionally, both self discharge and temperature variations are going to throw a crowbar in the works.

[/ QUOTE ]

The smart battery standard takes this into consideration. And it just counts the capacity getting in and out.

 

[deranged_coder]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

Ah, but patents do not apply to concepts. Patents typically can be applied to "processes, machines and articles of manufacture and use".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent

 

[gadget_lover]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

My razor (by Braun) has an LED to indicate the percent of charge remaining. I don't know if they measure the same things. Applying a known technique to a different field (flashlight instead of razor) does not make it patentable since the meat of the envention is a battery meter.

My Cell phone, laptop, car and camera all have "battery meters". The car goes so far as to track state of charge based on voltage and current in and out.

Daniel

 

[markbUK]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

I agree with whats been said above, its not really a new idea, plenty of examples of "prior art" and given the problem to solve, it's difficult to see that others could not come up with a similar solution. however an appropriate route may be to approach a manufacture who may be intrested in using the idea. protection of the intulectural property in the form of patent may be too costly and have limited protection give the rate of develoment in electronics.
Mark

 

[HenryE]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

I appreciate the constructive input.

"Obviousness" is always an issue regarding patentability, and we often deal with it. However, in this case we don't think it's an impediment because of the innovation of the circuit (low cost, handles the various issues raised), and the obvious non-obviousness factoid that it's not available despite the reality that people would like to have it. When we talked to the local sheriff's office about applicability of the technology to rechargeables, we got a great response.

The real challenge is whether it's "out there" already, in one form or another. So far, we haven't found it at the USPTO, in the literature, or on the market, and the response in this forum is very encouraging.

More to come...

 

[PANZERWOLF]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

unless it uses a kind of smart battery, i don't like the idea of having to increment with experience (guessing)
i'm also very concerned about toughness/watertightness of this device
that said, some sort of indicator would be nice (the smart battery countdown on my sony camera is very precise and a great help)

 

[HenryE]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

Great comments!

The way the patent app is written, the recessed button lets the user adjust for different cells, experience, and circumstances. Let's assume it's a Surefire flashlight, and Surefire cells are the "standard" that produce 25 minutes runtime. If the owner installs cells that experience has shown produce only 22 minutes' runtime, when the unit is closed the indicator will reset to the factory preset of "25", and the user has the option of changing the display to "22".

The patent also describes nonvolatile memory, so that "22" will be remembered the next time cells are replaced, and the user has the option of adjusting from that point if the brand of cells has been changed, or experience shows that another number is appropriate.

Obviously, the patent includes an allowance for duty cycle, as well.

The important point is that the owner of a flashlight equipped with this feature can see at a glance - just on picking up the light and without pushing any buttons - what runtime is left, in minutes. I acknowledge that the number will never be perfect, but argue that it will be closer than guesswork, and with time and experience will be close to truth.

Since a significant percentage of such lights are used in urgent (even emergency) situations - wouldn't such a feature be highly desirable?

As a user, I'd want it even if it's just to walk the dog.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

sounds like a programmable countdown timer would almost do the same. As for putting it in lights, it may be useful but at what cost per light and what is the size needed for the circuitry?

 

[KevinL]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

It sounds like a nice feature. Having lived with the laptop battery gauges for a long time (and those have evolved to become quite intelligent), I tend to treat battery gauges not as absolutely precise, but rather, as a good indicator of when I should wise up and start considering replacing/recharging the battery. At the very minimum it makes keeping track easier.

Lithium primary/lithium ion systems have less self discharge, so the system would work better. Adjustments are cool. I'd go for it even if it was just a timer calculating how long the light has been on (ie. odometer, trip meter style) and I myself had to work out how much runtime I had left because it already greatly simplifies things.

Variable power lights are going to mess with this (ie. how does one work out runtime for a U2 with six levels of light and not knowing in advance what the usage pattern will be), but the laptops solved this. They calculate the remaining power based on the power drain at that moment. For example if I load my CPU very heavily and switch it to full speed (SpeedStep off) I can watch the predicted runtime remaining drop after a couple of minutes.


The idea is a great one. What remains to be seen is the execution, how small it can be, whether it detracts from the aesthetics of the light, how well designed it is and so on, but these are issues that would have to be dealt with in every product (lights or not), and I'm sure you guys have a good handle on them. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[Kiessling]

Re: Runtime indicator to show remaining battery li

A very good idea indeed, this is one feature I was really missing in most of my lights!

But ...
... water tightness?
... toughness?
... how shall it be retrofitted?
... how will it be able to handle multi-level lights?

bernhard