Sell me on Sure-Fire

Craig720

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I've heard lots of stories about how great the E1 and E2 are, but they are expensive and all seem to take lithium batteries.

I carry Photon II's and a PrincetonTec Blast in my trouser pockets, and a PrincetonTec Tec 20 in my jacket pocket. I use the Blast a lot, and those batteries are easy to find. I love that light.

Why should I shell out comparatively big bucks for a personal flashlight that takes only expensive lithium batteries? I'm admitting ignorance here, but I don't even know where to buy lithium batteries.
 

recercare

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I agree with you to a certain point. They are too expensive. In other words, the value is not good enough. Yes they are bright and look good, but not enough to justify the price.

The most important disadvantage about the Surefires is the short burntime. I can't take the E2 with me on a mountain trip because i would end up changing batteries too often. The lithiums are expensive as well, so i wouldn't consider using the E2 as an everyday light either.

So, in what situations would i use the E2?
-In case i suddenly needed a very bright light for 5 minutes. For example: Imagine losing a needle in total darkness...and your 4 or 5-cell flashlight is 5 miles away. Then i would rather have the E2 than Tec20, Blast or photon II.
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

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Craig...

The princeton tec-20 is a particularly bad light imho. Once you get an E2 you'll never go back.

The TEC-20 has an awkward shape, not great light output and the beam is inconsistent.

If you don't want an E2, you may want to consider a Princeton 4 AAA model over the tec-20.

But the question is really like cars. It's like comparing a Honda Civic which takes regular gas and only needs regular tires to a Ferrari which guzzles premium tires and gas.
 

John N

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Personally, I found the SF a bit expensive itself (not the batteries). I opted for serveral Streamlight Scorpions, one of which I always carry.

As for batteries, it's not as expensive as you might think. I buy batteries in semi large qty over the net, currently I'm using http://www.zreiss.com/batteries/photolith.htm for $1.45 ea.

The other aspect of the price is that the batteries basically don't run down when you are not using them and are usable for their entire life (it's not half as bright half way through the battery life). With that said, you basically only use the battery when you have the light on. Even having the light with me all the time, I only have to change batteries every month or two.

It's very nice having a bright, very reliable light always at hand.

Of course, I don't walk home with the light on all the time or anything like that.

-john
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

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The batteries last longer when you aren't using it constantly. SureFires get really hot and thus it burns the batteries up quicker. After using SFs, there really isn't any other compact light that can compare to the power and intensity of a SF. I currently own 6 of them and am happy with the ones I have. I think you have to find which one best suits your own purposes. I have an E2, 6R, 8X, C2 and 9PT.

Overall SFs are really worth while.
 

John N

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John N:
Personally, I found the SF a bit expensive itself (not the batteries). I opted for serveral Streamlight Scorpions, one of which I always carry.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BTW, the Scorpion is very well built IMO. It may not be 100% of a SF, but I'd say it was 80-90%.

-john
 

Craig720

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:
I can't take the E2 with me on a mountain trip because i would end up changing batteries too often.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What light WOULD you take with you on a trip into the mountains?
 

recercare

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That's a difficult question to answer, because it depends on what kind of terrain you're walking in. Generally i would suggest:

-Petzl Tikka headlamp when the trail is easy to follow. I also use this as a tent-light.
-Tektite Expedition 300 flashlight for the same use as the Tikka (except from the tent-light) if you don't like headlamps.
-Silva 365 headlamp with a 6W bulb (not 10W as the original) when the trail is difficult to spot/follow.
-Double Barrel 8AA or any other flashlight with at least 4W bulb, 16 hours burn time and light weight.

When walking in the mountains for 3-4 days without the possibility of recharging, the burn time is important. By using the 6W bulb on the Silva 365 you get MUCH more light than the Petzl Zoom or Megabelt (2.6W) and at least 10 hours burn time.
 

Byron Walter

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I don't believe that anyone mentioned that the e2 is the smallest two cell 123 battery light available. This makes it more likely that you will have it with you. As others have mentioned, you can buy 123s for a good price. I recently bought 12 SF 123s at $2.50 a piece (Arizona Gun Runners). And it does get an extra 15 minutes over the Scorpion. Really, for me battery cost isn't an issue for the amount I use the light. And when I first got it I quickly discovered that it was brighter than my 4 c cell Mag light! I also have a SF M4 (4 123s) which, with the low power lamp, out shines my Mag charger. To each their own but SF really does make the best damn lights out their...

Byron
 

Size15's

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You're right to ask questions about whether SureFires, or any other brand performs, especial since, on the face of it, they are expensive to buy, and run.

You views should change when you get a chance to audition some SureFires.

The E2 will change your outlook on illumination tools.

Al
 

Gman

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Well, staying with the lithiums, the SF is the best from a quality standpoint. I'm not talking about only beam quality (the Scorpion and ASP Taclite have a very good beam also), but other quality issues.

The Scorpion and Taclite lamps will not last as long as an SF lamp. The Scorpion lamp lasts only 3 or 4 sets of batteries. I do like the fact that the Scorpion has another lamp on board, however.

As noted in other's posts, the lithiums are not that expensive if bought in bulk from AGR (Gary's a great guy, btw) and they have a long shelf life. This makes a lithium torch good for survival gear or letting it sit until you *really* need it. (If you're going to burn through batteries, you should look at rechargable.)

Another issue is switching. SF's is stone simple, bulletproof and the entire torch is very corrosion resistant inside and out.
The engineering quality of a SureFire is "real", many others are simply good looking and perfectly adequate for most tasks, but it's really up to you to decide if having the best (and paying for it) is worth it.

As far as cost, one must look beyond the product as a whole and at the manufacturing processes that go into it. MVD (for SF refelctors) is a fairly expensive process, the raw materials (aluminum alloys are not created equal) and the corrosion resistant processes used on SFs are also of a very high level. This, as well as the quality of CNC machining is not cheap and is going to be reflected in the final cost. As an engineer, I can assure you the darn things are pretty well made using very good materials. Hey, Laser Products has to make a profit also :)

It's also a question of if you simply appreciate finely engineered things or are just looking for a light to "do the job". One has to evaluate the mission of the torch. I suspect many *non* LEO folks who buy SureFires simply appreciate well made things.

I choose G2 SFs (and Krills) for my survival gear (I fly in remote areas) and I wanted a torch I *knew* would operate when I needed it. So my criteria is for absolute reliability. (That, and I simply appreciate fine engineering.)

Also, most "normal" flashlights lack in quality current/contact paths. This gives the typical dim beam requiring the "shake" manuver. SFs avoids this problem with quality paths. (Even then, I use a bit of anti-oxidant compound on my survival packed SFs)

Having said all that, my daily carry is a Scorpion in my flight case and the E2 in my pocket. My other SFs live a quiet life, waiting for the call. This lack of use translates to even greater costs, but one gets what one pays for and for me that's knowing when I push the button the SureFire won't let me down.

So each person's viewpoint and "mission" in selecting a torch will be different. As an engineer and pilot, I have a "need" for good stuff.

Besides, sometimes there can be no rational reason for perceiving quality and value, we simply buy certain stuff because we like it. The "cool" factor takes over and love is blind in such cases.

Anyway, sorry for the length. Hey, anyone have other opinions on the ASP Taclite?
 

Gman

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I forgot to mention that I do agree with John
N in that the Scorpion is a great torch.
I've seen Scorpions advertised on the Net for $28 without batteries. That's a pretty sweet deal for such performance. Like all things, eeking that last 10 or 20% of performance out of a product does drive up the cost. The Scorpion lacks some of the corrosion proofing of the SureFires, but bare aluminum readily oxididizes and this provides good protection also. I wish the lamp life was better, but for the money it's a fine tool.
 

007

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After buying and comparing the LX to my SureFire E2, I opted to sell the SF to the teenager next door.

The LX kicks butt and I'm going to buy 2 more of 'em.
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

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I agree wholeheartedly with 007.

Even James Bond would be impressed with the LX. Way to go Brinkmann!!!!!
 

kb0rrg

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E2 vs LX. The war is on
smile.gif
 
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**DONOTDELETE**

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I agree with 007 & FlashlightDude=

After hearing so much about the Brinkmann LX, I bought one too
.

It gives my Sure Fire a run for the money!
 

007

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Maybe the Legend LX should be the official torch for CPF'ers? !

It's price is great, it's damn bright and cool looking.

007
 
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