Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

nitebrite

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
629
I got a cheap flashlight on Amazon. It has 22xXPL-HI with 6x18650. The UDR Dominator kicks it's butt. I figure you guy's are not surprised. I was. How can that many XPL not be brighter? This is not a troll post. I am very serious. I don't get it. I know it is just a cheap flashlight but I would think that many XPL has to be brighter? Call me stupid I guess. TBH, it was more on par with the E2D Defender! It could not even match a Deadwood. Could someone please explain this to me if they don't mind? Thank you
 

badtziscool

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
1,720
Probably a couple of things to consider:

what's your perception of brightness? With that many leds, I'm thinking this is a really floody light. So if are comparing this to the UDR at any distance, then the UDR will appear brighter because it's putting light where you're expecting it to be.

even with this many LEDs, if you're only driving them at low power, then it's not going to be bright. This is most likely the case given where this was purchase.
 

thermal guy

Flashaholic
Joined
Jan 28, 2007
Messages
9,936
Location
ny
Throw and brightness are two different things. UDR Dominator Has good throw. Your other multi led light probably has a ton of flood so doesn't shine as far. Two different animals.
 

bykfixer

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
20,212
Location
John 3:16
Are they really XPL-HI or just said to be? Sometimes cheap lights say one thing but do not actually have the stated technology such as actually containing XPG emitters instead of more modern type.

Next would be circuit efficiency. Cheap parts may create was more resistance. Alluminum and some alloys are wildly inefficient. Check ohm readings.

Finally, like others said it could be it's a flooder. That and matters too as some allow more efficient light transfer.
 

nitebrite

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
629
Thanks guy's. I bet you nailed it. First I was trying to light up the side of a barn over one hundred feet away. Second I bet 6x cheap Chinese 2400mah 18650 are not enough to drive that many XPL-HI to full brightness. Since just one 18350 drives an XPL-HI to about 2600 lumens. Finally, junk electronics, heatsink or total BS. There is a reason this is 50 bucks and the Surefire is over a Grand. I should have used my head about this. This is probably why we do not see high end lights like this I imagine. Thank you
 

jon_slider

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
5,066
> Shouldn't this be brighter than the UDR dominator?

No,

for your application, you dont need more lumens, and you dont need more LEDs

You need more LUX, and single LEDs can be focused into a smaller area, making the light reach farther and look "brighter", within the smaller hotspot.

mwBDxVgl.jpg
 

nitebrite

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
629
I know. However this light states that it is 20,000 lumens. I am calling outright BS on that. I bet that light is more like 1000 lumens. Even at 1 meter. Since it compares near likewise to other 1000 lumen lights.

I was just wondering if there is something like the Dominator or larger with much more output if price is not a consideration?
We actually have a very good reason for needing these. This is not a toy to us. I got the $50 light out of stupidity.
 

lightfooted

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
1,017
I know. However this light states that it is 20,000 lumens. I am calling outright BS on that. I bet that light is more like 1000 lumens. Even at 1 meter. Since it compares near likewise to other 1000 lumen lights.

I was just wondering if there is something like the Dominator or larger with much more output if price is not a consideration?
We actually have a very good reason for needing these. This is not a toy to us. I got the $50 light out of stupidity.

Marketing, if it could be called that. They just put the largest numbers that everyone else is putting on their lights. Nothing is enforcing compliance with ANSI or any other regulating body. While I'm not into throwers and keep track of which is the brightest, I have seen the videos made by Matt and his review of some pretty impressive lights. The Budget Light Forums Giga-Thrower looks to be one of those lights that might beat the Dominator in throw.
 

Swedpat

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
3,448
Location
Boden, Sweden
Jon Slider,

Very good and illustrative picture!
And if we are talking about a thrower the hotspot can be more than 100 times more intense than the spill. This means despite a very bright hotspot the main part of the total lumen output is still in the spill. And the more floody a beam is the larger the hotspot and the smaller is the difference in lux between hotspot and spill. A large hotspot combined with a wide spill, which is not much less intense than the hotspot, costs a lot of lumen.
Therefore a thrower can throw much further than a flooder despite the flooder has much higher lumen output.
 

badtziscool

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
1,720
I know. However this light states that it is 20,000 lumens. I am calling outright BS on that. I bet that light is more like 1000 lumens. Even at 1 meter. Since it compares near likewise to other 1000 lumen lights.

I was just wondering if there is something like the Dominator or larger with much more output if price is not a consideration?
We actually have a very good reason for needing these. This is not a toy to us. I got the $50 light out of stupidity.

Similar to the Dominator in what way? Output? Durability? User Interface? Rechargeability? All/Most of the above? What's your use case? I can think of several lights that have more output and throw than the UDR, but it doesn't have a rotary interface or has a self contained rechargeable capability. The UDR is pretty unique in this aspect.
 

nitebrite

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
629
No. I just meant to say this $50 light is not 20,000 lumens of Horseradish. I mentioned that little Deadwood and Hanko are much brighter. When they said 20,000 lumens I "expected" it to be brighter than the UDR but I was an idiot. It is the typical Chinese game. Not to say that there are not nice Chinese lights such as Fenix. However, I do see a light on the large E-commerce site that very well may throw further than the UDR. It is $750. It is not a "better" light than the UDR all considered though. I am quitting while I am ahead. You do not go from top of the line lights to this stuff. I have no clue what prompted me to fall for this. I apologize for wasting everyone's time.
 

badtziscool

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
1,720
There's no wasting anyone's time here. We chose to respond to your questions. And your question about lights that are like the UDR is a good one because not everyone can afford a $750 light but wants a lot of the qualities it offers.
 

xxo

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
2,974
I think you need some of those 9900 mAh 18650's to get 20,000 lumens,
 

nitebrite

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
629
I do not mean to be a jerk. where do you get a UDR for $750? I will get a backup! Surefire pricing is MAP. Same price everywhere. Sometimes if you know someone they will cut you a small discount and they are risking their Surefire dealership agreement when they do so. Anyways the UDR is about $1400 bucks. Without batteries(CR123A) or a case. All in with tax the thing is close to 2 Grand. Sure, there are actually brighter lights and lights that throw further even. As someone mentioned the batteries and interface, the balance of the device and everything add up to a very unique light. I think maybe you got the $750 number from the light I was mentioning from China that might throw further than the UDR. I don't really care. Some kids hopped up Mustang is faster than a LA Ferrari that does not make it nicer.

I really appreciate that you folks do not feel that this was a waste of a post. I do not feel that I got ripped off either. I do not waste things. It is still a fine 1500 lumen light and there is certainly a place for that. I will just use it places where I do not need HAIII or whatever. In fact I might use it right now. To wire up some outdoor lighting.I will just tail stand it 25 feet below where I am working. The nice thing, it runs a while because it is not even driving hard.

Yeah that is the same joke. I see 10,000mah 18650's on there. Same deal. I should have known better. The $750 light may be promising but I am not gambling that much. I paid that much for a light from Rey he built one of a kind for me that perhaps is nicer than any of my Hanko or Barrel's. Rey called me from China. This thing who knows what you are getting.

Thank you guy's. I really appreciate how great you all are.
 

nitebrite

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
629
>>>Edit: I misread the specs on the following item. The UDR would crush it. In fact the HL-4 would easily best it. Save your time and do not bother reading what follows.


I may actually be onto something. I purchased that showerhead from the website owned by the richest man in the world. I don't usually do this to him but he will gladly trade me. Even swap. WoWtac A5. Made by Thrunite. Correct me if I am wrong. It seems very interesting. Apparently it actually does output about 3600 lumens from one emitter(XHP-70.2), it has good spill and throw comparable to the UDR(even though they state 700ish Meters) Here is the kicker, it fits in cargo pants. It is 1x26650. It has HAIII. IPX67. Even if it is only 2000LM and throws 500M for the size it is okay. It is a better light than the showerhead. The showerhead cannot pull enough amps to drive that many emitters. Plus I think we all prefer a single emitter. I will compare it to the UDR and the Streamlight HL-4. I expect it to be closer to the HL-4 but I hope I am surprised. Chinese lights are like a box of chocolates. Although I figure this might be a better bet of my 50 bucks.
 
Last edited:

jon_slider

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
5,066
WoWtac A5. ... Even if it ... only ... throws 500M

specs say it throws 234 meters
and has a very floody beam of 4 candela per lumen

Wowtac A5 Flashlight Review


Wowtac A5
throw 234 meters (2.5 USA football fields)
Candela 13,750
Candela per Lumen 4 (Floody wall of light, for close wide illumination)

HL4
throw 346 meters (3.8 USA football fields)
Candela 30,000
Candela per Lumen 14 (balance of spot and spill)

UDR
throw 903 meters (9.8 USA football fields)
Candela 200,000
Candela per Lumen 83 (narrow spot beam for throwy applications)

"The candela per lumen (cd/lm) ratio can be used to determine if a flashlight has a spot or flood type beam. Well-focused spot beams can be over 100 cd/lm, tactical flashlights are typically between 20-100 cd/lm, and work lights are less than 10 cd/lm."
 
Last edited:

nitebrite

Enlightened
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
629
Yeah, like I said I had originally misread the specs. Don't even bother reading my rubbish. I could have deleted it but I left it for historical purposes :)

It is honestly hard to beat the UDR. That is why I carry one on thousands of dangerous Acres. Dangerous as in the land and animals. The only reason I started with $50 lights is I had a $50 gift card. No other reason. For many years already all of my lights have been very high end stuff. I will not get another light like that until Surefire replaces it. Or another top American company bests it. The Timascus Hanko in my pocket is much brighter than that A5. I replaced the Nichia's with XPL's. High CRI is not my priority in that light. I need a glove though. It still is much brighter than any $50 light on the website we are speaking of. In fact I have some plastic rectangle light I forget the name, it is a good light. It takes 4xaa lithium and one XHP is much brighter than any of those.

Just forget this thread please. I really appreciate everyone teaching me. However this really let's my stupidity shine. You would think that after this many years I would know better. I fell for a typical newbie trap. At least I already have a UDR.

Edit: the plastic light I was speaking of is a PrincetonTec Tec 40 modified to accept a drop in XHP 70.2 module. It has additional heatsinks. For it's size, weight, form factor and run time it is a nice light. Certainly nicer than it started out :) Before someone says there is no XHP capsule, it was custom fabricated. I have 10 of them and, no they are not for sale. :)

Edit2: I did manage to find lights that are not 50 bucks but not expensive either that easily throw much further than the UDR. They also have much more candella. However the key thing is I would not count on them in time of need. I will count on Surefire! For one thing I do not even know that those claims are true. Although they were from some of the more reputable companies but still Chinese. The reason I do not own a Streamlight HL5 even though it has a 70.2 is the crazy charging system. I own all the current Surefire lineup and think they are much nicer than Streamlight. Before you say I am a rich jerk, They made me a very nice deal for purchasing them all. What I find interesting is there brightest light is a WML. I actually prefer lasers on firearms. I am not a LEO.

Okay, hopefully we forget this thread. It served to make me look very stupid. I do appreciate very much those that answered my questions. I am actually surprised that I fell for this at this juncture.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Top