SO, I ordered a Pila IBC and....

[Willieboy]

I contacted Pila and asked about what I could use as a spacer to charge RCR123s. In return I received a stern admonishment against using the IBC for these batteries. They said, in no uncertain terms, that this charger should only be used to charge PILA batteries.

For an FNG, this flashlight stuff is getting more and more confusing. Where's my candle and matches?

 

[Black Rose]

It's just a CYA response on their part.

They can only guarantee results when the product is used with their batteries.

 

[Justin Case]

The Pila charges at a 600ma rate, which is slightly higher than 1C for today's 16340 cells. It shouldn't be a big issue, but it is a slightly higher charge rate than perhaps desirable for these little cells. The more gentle the charge rate, the greater the cycle life.

 

[DM51]

The Pila IBC is fine for charging RCR123A (16340) Li-Ion cells.

 

[GreyShark]

I use a Pila IBC to charge IMR 16340's. Lighthound has some 15mm aluminum spacers that can be used in conjunction with the screw in Pila spacers to charge 16340's in an IBC. I also use the IBC to charge 26700's, I bet Pila doesn't approve of that either but it works well enough, as long as you're ok with one battery at a time.

The only weird thing I've noticed about my IBC is that sometimes if it gets bumped during a charge the LED indicator light will go from red to green. That seems to be some kind of weird internal contact issue but I haven't tried tearing the charger down to check it out.

 

[mdocod]

The only weird thing I've noticed about my IBC is that sometimes if it gets bumped during a charge the LED indicator light will go from red to green. That seems to be some kind of weird internal contact issue but I haven't tried tearing the charger down to check it out.

You'll probably notice that the tendency for the "bump" termination is highest towards the end of the charge as it's finishing the CV stage. As the current drops lower and lower and gets closer and closer to termination, the effects of a bump or jostle become more and more likely to cause a momentary drop in current to below the termination value of 50mA.

In my experience, a "bumped" termination is most likely going to occur very close to the end of the normal charge anyways, so it's a minimal issue.

-------------

As for the IBC and RCR123s, the more I ponder this the less I worry about the slightly higher than ideal charge rate for RCR123s.

consider the following:

Since this is a true CC/CV charger, the RCR123 being charged at a 1C or slightly higher rate, will actually trip the charger into CV mode early in the charging process due to the rapid voltage rise associated with faster charging rates. Resulting in a large portion of the charge actually taking place at less than the 600mA CC rate.

If I had to choose between a 1C charge rate through say, 50-60% of the charge, followed by a diminishing rate in a CV stage, and say, a ~0.7C rate that is CC only and takes charging voltage to ~4.35V on an RCR123, I would go with the former 100% of the time. The second example there is of a WF-139.

-Eric

 

[GreyShark]

You'll probably notice that the tendency for the "bump" termination is highest towards the end of the charge as it's finishing the CV stage. As the current drops lower and lower and gets closer and closer to termination, the effects of a bump or jostle become more and more likely to cause a momentary drop in current to below the termination value of 50mA.

In my experience, a "bumped" termination is most likely going to occur very close to the end of the normal charge anyways, so it's a minimal issue.

Thanks for the information. I was concerned there might have been a loose internal contact or other defect. Yes, it seems to happen the most toward the end of the cycle and of course if you don't bump it there isn't a problem.

 

[Justin Case]

Yes, there is that aspect of somewhat self-limiting behavior when using a higher CC charge rate. But you are still using a higher than ideal charge rate.

At the $50 and under price point, the Pila is probably the best option. But if the price is not an issue, then the strawman choice between the Pila and something like a WF-139 is a false comparison. There are clearly other options. They just cost more money.

My original point was to make the OP aware of the specific charging characteristic that applies to the 16340-capacity cell. Yes, the Pila will work fine. Is it ideal. No. If you want ideal, then you'll most likely have to spend more money, but you will get a charger better matched for the 16340.

 

[sygyzy]

I used my Pila for the first time the other night to charge 16340's. I usesd two spacers from Lighthound and everythign seemed to charge fine but I was concerned because the spacer is just the right size ... it barely puts any pressure on the spring. Is a longer spacer available/necessary?

 

[xenonk]

Thanks for the information. I was concerned there might have been a loose internal contact or other defect. Yes, it seems to happen the most toward the end of the cycle and of course if you don't bump it there isn't a problem.

I get the same effect near end of charge with even the cheapy $8 2-bay 18650 charger from DX. Tiny and brief increase in contact resistance when jostled and it thinks the charge is done.

 

[Mjolnir]

I also noticed this happening after bumping my PILA, but thankfully the charger has that handy little reset button, so it isn't really a problem.

Greyshark, you said that you charge 26700's with yours. I just ordered some 26650's, and I wasn't sure if they would be able to charge in my IBC, but I guess they should be fine. How off center does the 26mm cell sit? I assume that the positive and negative contacts on the cell can still make contact with the charger, other wise it wouldn't work (which was my major concern).

 

[crockett]

Will a dummy CR123A work as a spacer in the PILA Charger?

 

[cernobila]

Will a dummy CR123A work as a spacer in the PILA Charger?

I prefer to use only one spacer rather than two and use the CR123 dummy for this purpose, it is a bit too long as is and needs to be filed down to about 32 mm or 1.25 " to put the ideal pressure on the "-" spring in the charger.

 

[crockett]

Thanks! I have a couple on the way. I'll file them down when they arrive.

 

[TechnoBill]

I prefer to use only one spacer rather than two and use the CR123 dummy for this purpose, it is a bit too long as is and needs to be filed down to about 32 mm or 1.25 " to put the ideal pressure on the "-" spring in the charger.

Greetings cernobila,

Forgive me, but I'm a newbie to charging anything other than 18650s. I'm a trifle confused by "only one spacer rather than two". By "spacer" do you mean something other than "CR123 dummy"?

As a picture is worth a thousand words (or ¾ million words in my case) I'll simply post this photo to illustrate what I have that fits and that which does not fit.

I Have NOT, repeat, I Have NOT applied A/C electrical current in the "series 16340" arrangement, NOR DO I INTEND TO! {No need to start writing a eulogy of kind but untrue testaments to what a genuine mammal, yea indeed perhaps even a primate, I was .}

I would simply like to know:
1) What must I obtain to use my Pila to charge the Protected 16340s?
2) From whence (site link please) can I obtain the requisite items?



Thank you for your indulging my ignorance. :wave:

"Now the fireman told me that when the recipe says to grease the bottom of the pan, it means grease the INSIDE ~ Jeff Foxworthy ~

 

[cernobila]

Greetings cernobila,

Forgive me, but I'm a newbie to charging anything other than 18650s. I'm a trifle confused by "only one spacer rather than two". By "spacer" do you mean something other than "CR123 dummy"?

What I mean is that I consider the "black" item that comes with the charger as a spacer to be able to charge the 14500, 17500 and 18500 cells. (and its equivalents, Pila WE etc) I use a single item as a spacer for the RCR123 cells as per photo. (a RC123 dummy cell filed down a little for a good fit)

 

[Conan]

What I mean is that I consider the "black" item that comes with the charger as a spacer to be able to charge the 14500, 17500 and 18500 cells. (and its equivalents, Pila WE etc) I use a single item as a spacer for the RCR123 cells as per photo. (a RC123 dummy cell filed down a little for a good fit)

Is that black spacer made of metal?

 

[cernobila]

Is that black spacer made of metal?

No, the outside is some form of polymer with the centre core being metal.

 

[ptolemy]

I contacted Pila and asked about what I could use as a spacer to charge RCR123s. In return I received a stern admonishment against using the IBC for these batteries. They said, in no uncertain terms, that this charger should only be used to charge PILA batteries.

For an FNG, this flashlight stuff is getting more and more confusing. Where's my candle and matches?

what did you expect them to say?

they don't make $ off charger, but off batteriers/flashlight; therefore u not really their customer...

 

[TechnoBill]

What I mean is that I consider the "black" item that comes with the charger as a spacer to be able to charge the 14500, 17500 and 18500 cells. (and its equivalents, Pila WE etc) I use a single item as a spacer for the RCR123 cells as per photo. (a RC123 dummy cell filed down a little for a good fit)

THANK YOU cernobila! I'll check around the "regulars" CPF vendors for the CR123 spacers.

P.S. I'd just like to add that the civility and helpfulness of the CPF members is VERY MUCH appreciated. For the most part members here want to help novices learn to share their enthusiasm and knowledge. It reminds me of a "kindly old guy" who helped me out with gentle advice, not condescending criticism, at the rifle range of the club to which I belong. To hear him tell it, he was just an old guy trying to pass along some things as thanks for those men who had passed the tradecraft along to him. It was much later, and from someone else that I learned he had been a sniper in Vietnam.

Only then did I realize that when he was demonstrating a prone or kneeling position, or a trigger technique, or some other "simple" but difficult to master skill, that he was deliberately taking 'decent' shots, in other words intentionally shooting less precisely than he was able so as not to intimidate me. After I learned who had trained him (does a white feather mean anything to any of you oldsters?) I handed him my precision stick the next we were both there and said "Now show me how you really do it."

Professionals. They are humble, helpful, and aren't interested in impressing anyone, much less mocking them. "When I was born, nobody said 'Look! That infant is a crack sniper'" he said with a wry grin.

Just the pictures of the SoCal get together with MrGman, csshih, and host of others speaks VOLUMES.

The Good Guys don't get credit in this world. So I won't apologize for blathering on about this. You folks deserve it!

With Much Appreciation,
TechnoBill The Obtuse