Solarforce

[Monocrom]

Let's not take this off topic by turning it into yet another "Surefire vs. ____" thread. Or into a "Surefire is overpriced," thread.

Sometimes a light is more than just the sum of its parts. I own both Surefire and Solarforce models. My Solarforce L600 is crap. You want a detailed breakdown of why? Sorry, couldn't tell you. There's just a distinct lack of quality to it. Bright as Hell? Sure is! But not something I'd rely on for anything more than just mundane tasks. One thing I can point to is the use of cork as a buffer to prevent the cells from crashing into the lamp when inserting them into the light.

That's right, cork. That's not a misprint. I had heard that later models used a piece of plastic instead. But can't confirm that. Invariably the L2 host and its variations are the Solarforce model that gets the vast majority of discussion on these boards. I have an L2 host myself. And it is indeed the best Surefire 6P copy out there. (Let's be honest about what it is.) Still I can feel the difference in quality between it and my genuine 6P. You want a part by part breakdown, well; once again a light is more than just the sum of its parts.

There's a reason why many on here buy Surefire models. Even me . . . One of the biggest Surefire critics you'll encounter on these boards.

 

[Midnight Oil]

Monocrom,

No offense. I'm not stating Surefires are not worth their price. I'm merely asking those who agree they are, why. I'm trying to imagine how a Surefire designer and engineer would sell me the high price tag of a 6P and convince me not to get a Solarforce L2 or L2p instead, based only on the design and manufacturing specs of the lights. I doubt they would say, "We can't explain it...look, ours just feels better, okay." A slick Surefire sales rep may say something like, "Notice how much more solid the 6P feels in your hand." "What, like there's more steel in a Volvo than a Civic? Oh." There. Now that becomes quantifiable and much more convincing.

But whatever, to each his own. In the spirit of not going off topic, as you reminded me, I'll just leave it at that and won't pursue this discussion any further, and Surefire is :D.

 

[Monocrom]

At the risk of angering a certain Admin./Moderator, I can tell you the very basic reasons why the 6P costs more than the L2 host.

1) Surefire spent money on R&D to create the 6P model. It was the first, and several clones from a number of other companies followed. None of those companies had to spend their money on R&D. They just had to spend money to buy 1 Surefire 6P, and then have their engineers copy it. Obviously the cost of the clones, such as the Solarforce L2 host, is going to be cheaper than that of a light that was created through trial & error by an R&D department.

2) Surefire is an American company. They pay their workers a wage that allows for a far better decent standard of living than your average company in China. Perhaps Solarforce is the exception to that rule. Perhaps not. But clearly if your operating costs with regard to employee pay is lower than that of a competitor, you can charge less for a product and still make a nice profit.

Yeah . . . Not something a lot of folks like to hear. But doesn't change the fact that it's true. Ultrafire makes the worst 6P clone. Solarforce currently makes the best one.

 

[geek1]

Hmm, the prices on that website look rather low to me... Anyone experience with this seller? (Maybe this question belongs in new separate thread)

 

[Midnight Oil]

Thanks for taking the risk, Monocrom.

I hope no one gets offended by this discussion. I can't imagine how. There is a checks and balances dynamic in the supply and demand arena. Our power, as consumers, rests in our freedom to decide whether to buy and what to buy. We need to exercise this power in an informed and rational manner to encourage competition in the supply sector, which ultimately benefits us in the form of better and less expensive products.

 

[mn_doggie]

I just found this page, and I was wondering what everyone's opinion of Solarforce is. They look like Surefire ripoffs, and the lumen rating of 300 looks completely fabricated, but the price certainly is attractive.

I have a couple of legit Solarforce flashlights and I really like them.

I went to the website you mentioned and didn't see any Solarforce flashlights on the website. There were a lot of other brands.

Couldn't find out a contact place for the business...only a gmail account.

Oops, NeverMind.... yet another person who didn't notice the original post date... 2008

 

[Gryffin]

Hey...wait just a sec....Gryf,

You're the same guy who "Ain't touchin' THAT one with a ten foot battery tube :whistle: " over in Craig's P60 host thread! :thanks:though, for finally breaking the silence. :crackup:

Heh heh heh… I had just gotten my first Solarforce lights and only had my G2 to compare them to. I've had the 6P for a while now, and given them enough use to feel my opinions were valid.

 

[ace0001a]

Yeah . . . Not something a lot of folks like to hear. But doesn't change the fact that it's true. Ultrafire makes the worst 6P clone. Solarforce currently makes the best one.

Very true as I've always felt that the Solarforce L2 is the best Surefire 6P clone out there. Spiderfire probably comes second and they kept theirs thread compatible with Solarforce, whereas Ultrafire changed it for some reason. Also I thought it was funny that a clone gets cloned since Solarforce made the first 6P clone and then eventually the others followed. G&P does have a 6P clone themselves, but they actually made physical design changes and so I really don't consider it a full 6P clone.

Oh and just to copy my post in anther thread:

As a flashaholic, I own several Solarforce L2s and Surefire 6Ps. A few years back I decided to by a Surefire just to see what all the hype was about and also chatting with Gene Malkoff at the time and his development of his early M60 dropins. To be honest, when I first got my first incan Surefire 6P, I was not at all impressed with it. I bought it used off ebay and it still costed me $45 shipped at time. I didn't like the twisty tailcap and to this day, while I can understand why it does what it does, I still don't like it. I then slapped together a cheap P60LED dropin with parts from DX and then I started liking the 6P much more. After that, I went and bought a Surefire C2 body, thinking I could get an aftermarket Head and Tailcap. I then went digging on ebay to see what was out there and I noticed Heads and Tailcaps from brands like G&P and Solarforce. I found that I could get a Solarforce Head and Tailcap for around $20 shipped. I then stumbled upon an ebay dealer that sold a complete Solarforce L2 Xenon for $16 shipped and so I just bought a couple of them. When I got them, I was extremely impressed by the quality of them considering how cheap they were in price. Up until that point, I had already bought many many flashlights from DX or Kaidomain and so my expectations for China made flashlights had already been set fairly low. So when I played around with the first two Solarforce L2s I got, I was so very impressed with the build quality and all. The threads were smooth and the glossy black Type II Ano was to me every bit as good and looked like that on a Maglite.

In comparison, I weighed just the body component of an original Solarforce L2 (pre 18650 version) to a regular Surefire 6P body component and the the Solarforce weights 60 grams and the Surefire weighs 65 grams. Fully assembled without dropin, the Solarforce L2 weighs 105 grams and the Surefire 6P weighs 100 grams. Keep in mind that the standard Solarforce L2 has a strike bezel and the Surefire 6P does not. The inner bore diameter of the Solarforce does seem a little larger (or more loose) than the Surefire so that could account for the 5 grams body part weight difference. The Solarforce body does look about 1mm longer than the Surefire body and the Solarforce tailcap is definitely 8-10mm longer to the tip of the button than the Surefire tailcap. It is true that the chamber of the body tube that accepts the dropin is tapered on the Surefire and so it arguably has "better compatibility" than the Solarforce, but that's why most of the P60LED dropins on the market use an extra spring to secure the dropin and keep it pressed up against the head. I've been able to use Malkoff Devices M60s on my Solarforce L2s, I simply use one of the same type of springs that come with the other P60LED dropins and it works fine. The glass (or pyrex) lens that Surefire uses is about twice as thick as the the glass lens in Solarforce Heads, so it's arguable that the Surefire lens is more durable. Although a poster in this thread did say they replaced their cracked lens Surefire Head with a Solarforce Head and hasn't broken it yet, so I think it depends on how roughly you use your flashlight. For the money, to me it's hands down the a Solarforce L2 is the better value just simply because you are getting a very good flashlight at a relatively inexpensive price. Their new L2P has an awesome HAIII finish, improved knurling, much less aggressive crenulated bezel and a tailstanding crisp feeling clicky tailcap. Again as a flashaholic, I have several Solarforce L2s and Surefire 6Ps and love them all. Though the Solarforce L2 gives the cheap guy in me the gratification that I got a great deal on a great flashlight, the Surefire 6P, not so much. I mean sure I know the Surefire 6P is a great flashlight too and of course the top notch quality is there, but I just don't like the cost factor and to me that's a huge factor as well. Sure they have a great warranty, but I can't see much going wrong with the 6P. The Z41 twisty tailcap is practically impervious to failure (as the nature of a twisty is that) and sure you could probably break the lens, but I just can't see myself calling Surefire much to take advantage of their awesome warranty with the standard 6P. But as a flashaholic, I've bought some anyway so I guess what I've said doesn't make as much sense for me as it should. Still, I was going by the early habits of buying both of them. So again, while I do love both flashlights, I still have to recommend the Solarforce L2 based on value. As a flashaholic, I recommend buying both.

 

[shutupuface]

As far as the Solarforce forward clickies go, save your money. I bought one from Lighthound.com, and they are a perfect fit on my L2 and L600. (Two very different lights. The L600 is a G&P Scorpion copy that runs off of 2x18650 cells. And a rather **** poor copy at that).

Got the forward clickie to use on my L600. But the switch is too sensative. Almost feels as though the light would turn on if a fly landed on top of the rubber boot. I put the reverse-clickie from my L2 onto my L600. It's a 99.9% perfect fit. Tough to describe.... The L2's reverse-clickie works on the L600. Not even a loose fit. But just seems a bit off somehow.

I've found that it's best not to mix & match too many parts from different companies. The Solarforce R2 drop-in is a good one. The single-stage version is bright, cheap, and actually pretty decent.... And a poor fit in my Surefire C2, no matter what I tried to get it to fit. But it's an excellent fit in the Solarforce L2 host. The momentary switch on my L600 was horrible! Hard as a rock! When I switched it onto my Solarforce L2 host, it works perfectly! Can't explain why. Just know it does.

I'm new to the forum and recently obtained a Solarforce L2 with the (5) mode drop in. (low, medium, high, strobe, and SOS). I was lurking the forums and gathered that there is a "high output drop-in" that may be brighter than what came with the light? However, I also "heard" that there is one particular drop-in that is quote: "their brightest" but, will do damage to the light if used for long periods of time? Any help in this area would be appreciated. Also, is there a better battery charger for the 18650 Lithium than the one that Solarforce sells that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?
And, since I've been able to post here, I can't seem to add an avatar or go to certain pages? Is this part of the normal "newbie review"? Thanks, again!

 

[sfca]

Very true as I've always felt that the Solarforce L2 is the best Surefire 6P clone out there. Spiderfire probably comes second and they kept theirs thread compatible with Solarforce, whereas Ultrafire changed it for some reason. Also I thought it was funny that a clone gets cloned since Solarforce made the first 6P clone and then eventually the others followed. G&P does have a 6P clone themselves, but they actually made physical design changes and so I really don't consider it a full 6P clone.


In comparison, I weighed just the body component of an original Solarforce L2 (pre 18650 version) to a regular Surefire 6P body component and the the Solarforce weights 60 grams and the Surefire weighs 65 grams. Fully assembled without dropin, the Solarforce L2 weighs 105 grams and the Surefire 6P weighs 100 grams. Keep in mind that the standard Solarforce L2 has a strike bezel and the Surefire 6P does not. The inner bore diameter of the Solarforce does seem a little larger (or more loose) than the Surefire so that could account for the 5 grams body part weight difference. The Solarforce body does look about 1mm longer than the Surefire body and the Solarforce tailcap is definitely 8-10mm longer to the tip of the button than the Surefire tailcap. It is true that the chamber of the body tube that accepts the dropin is tapered on the Surefire and so it arguably has "better compatibility" than the Solarforce, but that's why most of the P60LED dropins on the market use an extra spring to secure the dropin and keep it pressed up against the head.

Are you saying you can remove the big coil springs on some drop-ins for better fitment/no gap with Surefires?

I've seen a thread like that somewhere.

I'm curious myself.. but I only have a C2 to compare. This body & clip work so well, can't see myself getting any other P60 light soon!


Does anyone remember the thread comparing heat dissipation between a C2 & M2 head - using the M60?
I'd like to see a continuation of that between all the 6P clones - including the Farka F8 V3's finned head.

 

[kramer5150]

Are you saying you can remove the big coil springs on some drop-ins for better fitment/no gap with Surefires?

I have found this to be true with the 6P and M2+Z44

 

[ace0001a]

Are you saying you can remove the big coil springs on some drop-ins for better fitment/no gap with Surefires?

I've seen a thread like that somewhere.

I'm curious myself.. but I only have a C2 to compare. This body & clip work so well, can't see myself getting any other P60 light soon!


Does anyone remember the thread comparing heat dissipation between a C2 & M2 head - using the M60?
I'd like to see a continuation of that between all the 6P clones - including the Farka F8 V3's finned head.

Yeah from what I've experienced, you can remove the outer large spring on aftermarket P60LED dropins when using them with Surefires...that's been the case with the 6P and C2 flashlights I have.

From what I gather, it seems to be well debated on whether a multi-finned or large metal mass head actually helps in doing major heat dissipation. One custom flashlight maker I chatted with believes such heads only "help a little" with the heat and went on to say you'd get better results by putting some metal material around the module housing so that it fits more tightly into the body, like using foil or a rolled strip of copper or aluminum.

I don't really consider the Xeno Farka F8 a 6P clone. It's definitely a Surefire C/P format clone, but not a 6P clone in my opinion. As far as build quality is concerned, I have been told that that Xeno does arguably the best Surefire C/P format clone flashlights at the moment, though I still feel the Solarforce L2 is the best Surefire 6P clone on the market. Now if Xeno makes one, then theirs would be. Since the Farka F8 is a variation on the design (looks like a cross between a 6P and C2 with finned Head), to me it's a model/design upon itself. Xeno does make a C2/M2 clone called the G5.

Check out this page:

http://www.shoudiantong.cn/viewthread.php?tid=10322

 

[Midnight Oil]

Ace0001a,

Very helpful post.:clap:

BTW, does your L2P have the battery rattle problem discussed in another Solarforce thread? The problem appears to be an over-bored body, compounded by the extra length.

The L2 doesn't have this problem right?

Thanks.

 

[ElectronGuru]

As far as build quality is concerned, I have been told that that Xeno does arguably the best Surefire C/P format clone flashlights at the moment, though I still feel the Solarforce L2 is the best Surefire 6P clone on the market. Now if Xeno makes one, then theirs would be.

The issue with Xeno is that quality is to high. Copies are so precise, they violate protection laws and can't be officially/formerly imported. I expect they'll figure how to alter their designs enough.

Does anyone remember the thread comparing heat dissipation between a C2 & M2 head - using the M60?

Don't have the link handy, but it comes down to heat path. Drop ins that rely on top end (through the bezel) transfer of heat (springs on the bottom like the P60L) will do worse with the M2 bezel. Dropins with solid body contact fair much better.

 

[ace0001a]

Ace0001a,

Very helpful post.:clap:

BTW, does your L2P have the battery rattle problem discussed in another Solarforce thread? The problem appears to be an over-bored body, compounded by the extra length.

The L2 doesn't have this problem right?

Thanks.

The original pre-18650 Solarforce L2 doesn't have battle rattle with 2 x 16340 or CR123 batteries...all of mine don't. The newer body bored for 18650s even rattles with the standard L2. For some reason they made the L2P body a little longer (my guess is that it's about 1mm longer). It may not seem like much, but the extra 1mm length coupled with the large bore size makes for battery rattle and even contact issues with many aftermarket dropins. I've got a Solarforce 5-mode XP-G dropin in my HA Natural "Grey" L2P at the moment and although the 18650 battery rattles, it doesn't show flicker or signs of contact issues. From my understanding, Solarforce is addressing these issues, but it may be a while before we see the adjustments or revisions in production. People have said stretching the springs help in this issue as well as some sort of non conductive material to wrap around the battery helps with rattle.

 

[Monocrom]

My experience with aftermarket drop-ins and large outer springs has been the exact opposite. Removing the spring does cause the drop-in to fit better inside a Solarforce or Surefire bezel. But the light doesn't switch on.

Thankfully, it's not the case with all aftermarket drop-ins. But it happens to me all the time I try to upgrade my Surefire C2. Gotten to the point where I just use a stock P61 in it.

 

[old4570]

Even the standard L2 is a little long , I find that with the odd L2 I need to stretch the Springs , even with a Xtar 18700 ...

Solarforce could easily lop off 5mm from the length of the body and there would still be plenty of space for a 18700

 

[ace0001a]

My experience with aftermarket drop-ins and large outer springs has been the exact opposite. Removing the spring does cause the drop-in to fit better inside a Solarforce or Surefire bezel. But the light doesn't switch on.

Thankfully, it's not the case with all aftermarket drop-ins. But it happens to me all the time I try to upgrade my Surefire C2. Gotten to the point where I just use a stock P61 in it.

That was what I experienced with the early 2xCR123 Solarforce L2s where removing the outer spring on the aftermarket dropins made a better fit, but the new 18650 bodies (especially the L2P), the outer spring is necessary not only for better fitting, but for actual functionality. With my Surefire 6Ps, I more often then not find that removing the outer spring on the dropin makes for a better fitting.

 

[ace0001a]

Even the standard L2 is a little long , I find that with the odd L2 I need to stretch the Springs , even with a Xtar 18700 ...

Solarforce could easily lop off 5mm from the length of the body and there would still be plenty of space for a 18700

The length issue with L2s is a combination of the body being about 2mm longer than it needs to be (the L2P's body is roughly 2mm longer than a Surefire 6P body), the aggressive strike bezel is probably about 4mm longer than it needs to be (though they did revise the L2P crenulated bezel) and the tailcap is probably about 6mm longer than it needs to be. So in total, I think the L2 could be 12mm shorter than it is.

 

[sfca]

Awesome!!! :thumbsup: Ace0001a, ElectronGuru, kramer5150:clap:: thank-you.:twothumbs

That's true - contact between drop-in and body first, then a finned or large metal mass head second.

...Thanks for the link. Is this a sign of accessories for an M2 head?:naughty:
http://p5.images22.51img1.com/6000/zym83152223/58b629bd63f985114f9bb83a6ac21d2e.jpg