something i have always wondered

[e-ville]

maybe the experts here can educate me.


the price points of surefire flashlights, im usually one to live by the addage that "you get what you pay for" but when i look at surefires it seems like they are sooooo much more expensive than most other brands.

and most of them dont put out that much for lumens compared to other lights, i know that lumen ratings dont really mean much and most arent accurate either. but what aspect of the surefires warrants the big price tag??

is the quality of the led that much better? the tint?? how about the reflector?? or just the overall build quality?? or is it just the name??

i think they make some really attractive looking lights but ive never been able to bring myself to spring for one because they are so expensive. hopefully someday ill own one

any surefire experts willing to give some friendly info?

 

[u238]

I feel you are paying for the build quality above all. Most all surefire lights can withstand rigorous use like being a weapon light. The name might have a bit to do with the price as well.

 

[DimeRazorback]

This topic has been wrung dry many many times.

Basically:

• Build quality
• Lifetime warranty
• Materials used
• U.S.A made
• Great QC
• Great customer service

All of the models that they make are designed with a specific purpose, hence why they often have lower output to other "tactical lights"

 

[angelofwar]

Well, with-out being to biased (I'm an SF addict...), the excellent warranty (coupled with excellent customer surface), and the form/fit/function ("they just feel better in the hand") are the two main reasons I keep going back to them...oh, and...they just work!

 

[csshih]

dimerazorback summed it up well, though, as with every company, a few still slip through their QC, and their customer service via email isn't as good. (they probably have to shift through allot of spam).

 

[John_Galt]

maybe the experts here can educate me.


the price points of surefire flashlights, im usually one to live by the addage that "you get what you pay for" but when i look at surefires it seems like they are sooooo much more expensive than most other brands.

and most of them dont put out that much for lumens compared to other lights, i know that lumen ratings dont really mean much and most arent accurate either. but what aspect of the surefires warrants the big price tag??

Surefire, unlike most other manufacturers rates their lights as OTF or Out The Front lumens. And in fact, they often underrate their outputs. Some of their lights have had 30+lumen disparity between their claimed outputs and their tested outputs. (I believe one E1B was tested as 110lumens)

is the quality of the led that much better? the tint?? how about the reflector?? or just the overall build quality?? or is it just the name??

The build quality is astounding! They produce some of the toughest, most robust lights available, this side of some custom builders! In all examples I've handled, and pictures I've seen, the machining is top-notch, the anodizing flawless, and the units well priced.
While there have been cases where their products have performed sub-par, this is extremely rare in occurrence, and quickly taken care of. Oh, did I mention their customer service? They have, from many, many reports here and elsewhere, some of the best customer service around. If something breaks, or is damaged, they will respond quickly to correct the problem.

i think they make some really attractive looking lights but ive never been able to bring myself to spring for one because they are so expensive. hopefully someday ill own one

any surefire experts willing to give some friendly info?

Surefire lights also have a huge following. If you do ever want to purchase one, and find it not to your liking, these lights hold their value very well. It is extremely rare that someone takes a loss on a Surefire light, and even then, not by a whole lot.
As you can see, Surefire lights also provide an extremely robust host for numerous modifications by any number of modders, and home fabricators. Just take a look at some of MilkySpits old mod's... Some of the stuff he does is insane!

 

[Deputy T.]

In my opinion it all comes down to "the name." Not just the lettering inscribed on the side of the body, but everything that went in to building their name and reputation. The definition of the word surefire is: sure to work, full proof. The people at surefire seem to have exhausted their efforts in being true to that description. They may not have the latest and greatest in the current fad technologies, but the will always have superb workmanship behind what they do and they stick with the most reliable designs.

For example, the P60L. You hear a lot of people complain of it's ugly tint, poor design and in adequate heatsink, but you almost never hear of any of them malfunctioning or failing. In the rare occasion than any thing goes wrong, there a life time warranty and first class customer service to back it. Just the other day I sent an email to Surefire inquiring about buying a replacement E1e clip. I explained that I wasn't the original owner and that I don't even have an entire light, just the body and tail with an incan head, and that the damage was entirely my fault. They simply replied: "[FONT=&quot]Dear Sir,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Please reply with your mailing address along with your contact phone number and we will have the clip sent out."[/FONT] No charge, no questions asked.

Of course another major factor involved in the price is they are an all American company, in the purest sense rarely seen now days. Most all American businesses now days have cut corners to remain competitive in the world market whether it be out sourcing or using cheaper manufacturing techniques. Surefire has never sacrificed quality in order to cut cost, consequently the consumer needs to be willing meet them halfway. Judging by the amount of Chinese flashlights and parts in my collection, that's something I myself am not always willing to do.

I understand that there are many other companies out there that have very durable products, impeccable quality control, and incredible customer service (even in China) but nobody does it quite like Surefire. Do your self a favor, pick up a G2 for about thirty bucks or so and see if you don't come running back for more. You'll know the instant it's in your hands if it's for you or not. I just saw a post by a member over in the Flashlight Collections forum stating he got his first Surefire in June, and he's since bought an additional twenty-eight Surfires!

 

[DimeRazorback]

I just saw a post by a member over in the Flashlight Collections forum stating he got his first Surefire in June, and he's since bought an additional twenty-eight Surfires!

 

[Ajay]

Crap! not this again

 

[e-ville]

lol sorry guys, i wasnt trying to start a pissing match. just looking for a little insight, thanks for the response

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

Surefire is the perfect brand for those who are not flashoholics. Anyone can get a SF and know it is of high quality, PERIOD. I personally don't care for them that much, but cannot dispute the previous statement. If you are obsessed with flashlights, you will either fall in love with what they are, or wish they were what the could be. SF is the only brand that I've never hear anyone refer to as a POS.

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

I still don't understand why anyone would brag about both durability/indestructibility and the lifetime warranty in the same
sentence. :shrug:

 

[romteb]

I really don't think surefires are overpriced but...

The only reason i see for the very high prices is the lifetime warranty, when your market is leos and military where your products are going to be used a lot and abused a lot, warranty service is going to cost you a lot in the long term, you will factor that in your prices.

As for the other reasons mentioned, i doubt them.

Build quality = machining and anodizing not better (if not worse) than jetbeam and a few others.

Materials = same aluminum as most flashlight manufacturers same led etc...

Reliability = I have yet to see some reliable and statisticaly relevant data about that, and if anything reliability is obtained with simplicity, surefires are indeed simpler than most flashlights as far are electronic, functions and batteries support go and therefore should cost comparatively less than most flashlights.

USA made = these flashlight are cnc made, i wont be surprised if their body costs exactly the same as any asian flashlight to produce. (Marketing on the other side is on a completly different scale than with most if not all asian manufacturers and the cost must be HUGE)

Again, i'm not a surefire basher and i don't think they are overpriced, but the only and sufficient reasons i can see for their price is the very high cost of a lifetime warranty in the extremely equipment abusing leos and military market, and the marketing costs.

 

[Launch Mini]

IMO, a lot to do with marketing and their image.
I sort of equate them to Rolex.
Not the best, but very good. People know the name & relate the name to a certain quality.
If the prices were lower, there "might" be a percieved notion the quality is also "lower". Just perception.

 

[etc]

I was on the house roof the other day, doing astronomical observation, the moon and stuff. With my Swarovski binoculars. I put my SF with M60 module in my front coat pocket and of course it fell out. On the roof shingles, down, down, off the roof, onto the oil heating tank, then onto the pavement and then onto grass. It made one scary "thunk" type sound when it hit the oil tank. I imagined the thing scattered in pieces across the lawn.

Yes it got beat up a bit but the LED still works, the glass did not break, the twisty switch works. Everything works. It was a brutal fall.

Now had I dropped Swarovksi, that would have been a serious disappointment. Nice 4-digit price tag. If you think lites are an expensive hobby, try European optics.

(Come to think of it, I have dropped Swarovski. Forgot it on the car roof and heard it slide off of it onto the road right in front of the driveway. That was the quickest U-turn I ever did, and yes, the bino was fine)

Anyway... another lite in its class falling off my roof would have probably been "OK" too, if not too heavy. But 6P or clone with twisty and some kind of LED is so simple, so well made that it's very difficult to break it.

Economics wise, one explanation for the SF price is that it's expensive to run business in US, without getting too much into politics. Other countries don't have the labor regulations that us has, don't have the taxes or the environmental laws. Things are micromanaged here too much.

Most of the cost you pay has nothing to do with the cost of manufacturing the device. I heard they can make a Surefire body in 45 seconds or something to that effect. But you pay for all other expenses. Plus you pay for marketing, distribution and the trucks to get the goods to places.
I think the lites you get off DX and stuff cost pennies on the dollar to make.

I remember when I got my first 9P Surefire. My first reaction was "Wow". And still is. I have never seen a lite so well made. Even the thread was lite years above other lites I had at the time. Apparently impossible to cross-thread it. It's over-engineered, bulky for the size, well made, idiot proof.

 

[angelofwar]

Well said, ETC. And double O-ringing them doesn't hurt either :thumbsup:

 

[etc]

Yeah... FWIW, SF clones like Leef and FiveMega have 1 O-ring, as far as I can tell, SF has 2. They are very good clones but not an absolutely exact copy.

My 9P is a joy to use. I wish I had gotten into SF years ago, instead of wasting years trying to make the minim*g work right.

 

[DimeRazorback]

I still don't understand why anyone would brag about both durability/indestructibility and the lifetime warranty in the same
sentence. :shrug:

Well I threw my A2 once onto concrete (I swung my arm, it went about 10 meters in the air, and crash) causing the lamp to explode, destroying the reflector and lens, effectively making the head K.I.A.

I sent it away, and had it back within two weeks (I'm in Australia) with a brand new head, lamp, and batteries. Express shipped for free.

Tell me that isn't good service?



It is one great security blanket, I will tell you that much.

 

[Hef]

e-ville,

Buy a SF, use it for awhile and then report back. Nothing like seeing the quality first hand.

 

[angelofwar]

e-ville,

Buy a SF, use it for awhile and then report back. Nothing like seeing the quality first hand.

The best "First" would be a C2/C2L or an E2L...yeah, they cost a bit much, but it's the last light you'll ever need (not the last you'll ever buy...) The 11 hours at 60 "Surefire Lumens" is hard to beat on the E2L...probably the best regulated commercially available light....and the C2/C3-HA is just a joy to hold (and built like a tank). That's why you rarely (if ever) see E2L's for sale on the Market Place...it's the "perfect light" (CPF'ers reading this think "you know...he's right...that's why E2L's never get sold on the MP...") :thumbsup: