Newby question!! Super Z AA's (NiZn) are relatively new, and at 1.6-1.9v are they too hot for AA flashlights? Anyone have any experience with these things. If they're super cool I'll get some for my daughter's Quark Turbo. Any info will help.... ...Good?.... ...Bad?
SUPER Z AA RECHARGEABLE
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qwertyydude
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
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They should be fine for flashlights that can take alkalines, if you try lithium primaries their voltage can be as high as 1.8 volts fresh. I'm now interested in buying a set of these for my Olympus compact digital camera since it can't use nimh batteries because it shuts off early, but I have 3 sets of li-ion batteries that I'm perfectly happy with and these require a different high voltage charger, either that or I wonder how they terminate their charge. If it's the same voltage drop it should be ok to use a hobby charger. It's too new to find info on other than press releases, ironic since wikipedia says it's 100 year old technology.
Mr Happy
Flashlight Enthusiast
Thanks for the links MrHappy; duly read, marked and inwardly digested; ready to wow my daughter with even more info!! You guys are a lot of fun and I've been reading like a maniac about flashlights and electronic stuff. I can safely say that I've actually read (and possible absorbed) about 2yrs worth of info in about 2 weeks!!! Not really but it feels like it!!! Thanks again...uh oh I feel sensory overload coming on, better go!!!!!!!!!!
davidefromitaly
Enlightened
http://www.dealextreme.com/forums/Default.dx/sku.25505~threadid.399804
look at this efficiency test
raise from 1.2 to 1.6V the efficiency increase from around 52% to 73% in a medium-quality boost circuit
this mean that also if the new ni-zn have slightly less total capacity, can give more light in a single cell flashlight
thats why i don't understand cause is so uncommon here on CPF...
aren't we always at the search of the maximum? :nana:
look at this efficiency test
raise from 1.2 to 1.6V the efficiency increase from around 52% to 73% in a medium-quality boost circuit
this mean that also if the new ni-zn have slightly less total capacity, can give more light in a single cell flashlight
thats why i don't understand cause is so uncommon here on CPF...
aren't we always at the search of the maximum? :nana:bcwang
Enlightened
Search for powergenix or ni-zn and you should find posts about them. For a summary:
-powergenix ni-zn cells (same as super-z) are about 1.84v fully charged, stay above 1.6v for most of their life, considered empty at 1.3v
-they are rated 1350mah min 1500mah typical
-they are about the same total energy as 2000mah eneloop because of the higher voltage
-they are low internal resistance
-they require charging using a special ni-zn only charger
practical use:
-They run quarks, L1D, LD10s, brighter on Turbo in the 1 cell configuration compared to nimh. It's much closer to the 2AA configuration brightness than the 1AA nimh when using 1 ni-zn.
-For the Quark, and probably a few other lights, they let the circuit run at a more efficient voltage when in Turbo resulting in longer runtimes and less heat generated at the head.
-In camera flashes, they charge the capacitor way faster than nimh, likely due to the much higher voltage and low internal resistance.
-powergenix ni-zn cells (same as super-z) are about 1.84v fully charged, stay above 1.6v for most of their life, considered empty at 1.3v
-they are rated 1350mah min 1500mah typical
-they are about the same total energy as 2000mah eneloop because of the higher voltage
-they are low internal resistance
-they require charging using a special ni-zn only charger
practical use:
-They run quarks, L1D, LD10s, brighter on Turbo in the 1 cell configuration compared to nimh. It's much closer to the 2AA configuration brightness than the 1AA nimh when using 1 ni-zn.
-For the Quark, and probably a few other lights, they let the circuit run at a more efficient voltage when in Turbo resulting in longer runtimes and less heat generated at the head.
-In camera flashes, they charge the capacitor way faster than nimh, likely due to the much higher voltage and low internal resistance.
Mr Happy
Flashlight Enthusiast
I have read at least one report that they broke a camera flash when used instead of ordinary rechargeables. Beware that not everything can take the higher voltage.
bcwang
Enlightened
No doubt. The Nikon SB-600 is one that it's reported to break, and my own experience shows it is likely not going to work in a Canon 580ex without causing problems.
I do know it works in the Nikon SB-800 and Canon 580ex-II however.
Definitely be careful about overvoltage with these batteries.
davidefromitaly
Enlightened
yes i suggest them only when standard ni-mh batts underperform (single cell lights, 2 cell digicam...). if is all right with them, don't put the ni-zn
thats what i will try to discover in my next tests on them...
davidefromitaly
Enlightened
hank
Flashlight Enthusiast
They're getting cheaper, Amazon:
List Price: $69.98, sale Price: $29.99 for Powergenix 5-Hour Fast Charger with 8 AA 1.6v Rechargeable NiZn Batteries (and even cheaper from other sources Amazon links to)
Now -- is this a good sign or a bad sign about the technology? Are these so popular they're making money on volume, or are they old stock/not popular?
Has anyone evaluated the several different chargers available? There's "one hour fast" and "3-5" and "5" hour chargers, which may or may not be the same thing. Parallel, independent channels, 2 or 4 cells only, etc.?
I'm thinking of these for single-AA or double-AA use where lithium primaries work, but a single-channel charger would be really useful if they make one.
(I think I've found the most current thread on NiZn, pointer welcome if I should ask in another thread)
List Price: $69.98, sale Price: $29.99 for Powergenix 5-Hour Fast Charger with 8 AA 1.6v Rechargeable NiZn Batteries (and even cheaper from other sources Amazon links to)
Now -- is this a good sign or a bad sign about the technology? Are these so popular they're making money on volume, or are they old stock/not popular?
Has anyone evaluated the several different chargers available? There's "one hour fast" and "3-5" and "5" hour chargers, which may or may not be the same thing. Parallel, independent channels, 2 or 4 cells only, etc.?
I'm thinking of these for single-AA or double-AA use where lithium primaries work, but a single-channel charger would be really useful if they make one.
(I think I've found the most current thread on NiZn, pointer welcome if I should ask in another thread)
Last edited:
bigchelis
Flashlight Enthusiast
I have tested several lights for OTF lumens with these cells.
check my thread.
EX: My Milky SST-50 RoomSweeper DD does 585 OTF with 2 of these cells and 1.8A at the tail
check my thread.
EX: My Milky SST-50 RoomSweeper DD does 585 OTF with 2 of these cells and 1.8A at the tail
Mr Happy
Flashlight Enthusiast
Here's another thread to look at:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=274332
It's a different brand name but the batteries are the same technology.
The 1-2 hr charger can charge from 1-4 cells, but seemingly it does not have individual channels, rather it appears to charge the cells in parallel on one channel. This can be an issue if duff cells get in the mix.
The NiZn cells do certainly appear to be a rechargeable alternative to lithium primaries, however beware that they have a lower internal resistance so they can deliver more current. The "punch" in the marketing blurb is no exaggeration. For equipment that is not expecting it, it can be a knock-out blow.
Some people have reported that the NiZn cells are fragile and can fail prematurely. I have not found that myself yet, but it would be best to treat them carefully and not abuse them by over discharging or overcharging.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=274332
It's a different brand name but the batteries are the same technology.
The 1-2 hr charger can charge from 1-4 cells, but seemingly it does not have individual channels, rather it appears to charge the cells in parallel on one channel. This can be an issue if duff cells get in the mix.
The NiZn cells do certainly appear to be a rechargeable alternative to lithium primaries, however beware that they have a lower internal resistance so they can deliver more current. The "punch" in the marketing blurb is no exaggeration. For equipment that is not expecting it, it can be a knock-out blow.
Some people have reported that the NiZn cells are fragile and can fail prematurely. I have not found that myself yet, but it would be best to treat them carefully and not abuse them by over discharging or overcharging.
Battery Guy
Enlightened
You may want to take a look at the AA Ragone plot thread here for more details.
Bottom line for the Super Z (aka PowerGenix) AA cells:
Great power capability (only beat by the Elite 1700 in my testing)
Low self discharge (not as good as Eneloops, but better than most NiMH cells)
Slightly lower total energy compared to Eneloops.
Pros: very high power and higher voltage enable some interesting hotwire mod builds.
Cons: reliability appears to be a big concern. For example, I have been attempting to make a study of the effect of overdischarge of these cells. The problem is that on both attempts, my "control" cell cycled normally begins to leak before my "overdischarged" cell.
So, I love the PowerGenix AA NiZn cells in concept, but they appear to be falling way short of displacing NiMH cells.
Cheers,
BG
45/70
Flashlight Enthusiast
Perhaps a bit OT here, but could you elaborate on this a bit BG? Were these cells subjected to the 16 Watt discharge test? I'm thinking perhaps this might have something to do with the leaking, eg. heat etc.
I have done very little with my PowerGenix NiZn cells, so far. They do work well in the applications that I intend to use them in though. These applications however, are taking advantage of the NiZn's higher voltage more than their power advantage, as the current under load is quite low.
Dave
I'm old enough to have to use a single cell nose-hair, ear hair trimmer more often than I'd prefer. The Ni-Zn works much more effectively than NimH.
Similarly, my 2-cell sideburn-beard trimmer is more effective with the Ni-Zn.
I ran both of these with lithium primaries until the Fry's brand became available a few months ago.
Similarly, my 2-cell sideburn-beard trimmer is more effective with the Ni-Zn.
I ran both of these with lithium primaries until the Fry's brand became available a few months ago.
