SureFire E1e Black HA?

[RobertM]

Quick question for you guys:

Are black SureFire E1e's hard anodized? If so, have they always been?

Thanks,
Robert

 

[DM51]

Re: SureFire E1E Black HA?

Yes. It is a very nice finish for the E1e (OK, it's very nice for all SFs!).

Black HA is not quite as hard-wearing as natural, though - if you add a dye during the ano process, it weakens the anodising structure slightly. There's an interesting thread on that somewhere, with some excellent pics taken of HA through a microscope.

 

[Size15's]

Re: SureFire E1E Black HA?

I have never seen, nor am I aware of an E1e in type II black anodising.
The E1e-BK has always been type III "Hard" anodised.

 

[RobertM]

Re: SureFire E1E Black HA?

Thanks for the info DM51 and Size15's! I might just have to pick up an E1e :naughty:

 

[Illum]

Re: SureFire E1E Black HA?

 

[DM51]

Re: SureFire E1E Black HA?

There is no disagreement between us on this. We are both saying type III anodising, (= HA), rather than type II.

 

[Solscud007]

Re: SureFire E1E Black HA?

Yes. It is a very nice finish for the E1e (OK, it's very nice for all SFs!).

Black HA is not quite as hard-wearing as natural, though - if you add a dye during the ano process, it weakens the anodising structure slightly. There's an interesting thread on that somewhere, with some excellent pics taken of HA through a microscope.

Interesting. Well apparently SF has a little false advertising then

In the 2003 Catalog, pg 93 (pg 47 of PDF) it says:

COOL SCIENCE AT WORK: The finish on the Emerson limited edition C2 is a black hard anodized Type III MilSpec. You can't even scratch it with the Emerson knife to which it is paired

 

[DM51]

Re: SureFire E1E Black HA?

I don't think there is any inconsistency there, but then I don't know how tough that Emerson knife is.

My original point (which I may not have made clearly enough) was that it is HA, which means type III, but being black rather than natural, it is not quite as hard, due to the black dye in the HA. It is still VERY hard - much tougher than type II.

 

[Size15's]

It's a matter more of interpretation...
If the substrate is deformed by the pressure applied and causes the anodisation growth to fail then has the anodisation growth been scratched?

Also, anodisation is a growth perpendicular to the surface of the substrate (out from it) and as such at sharp edges, corners and breaks in surface there will be a weakness in the coverage - it will be thinner.
This applies to both natural HA and dyed HA.
However, when the pores of the HA growth are filled with dye and sealed (I believe by submersion in boiling water) the ability of the HA growth to withstand abuse is reduced because instead of the pore structure deforming and collapsing absorbing and dissipating the energy like a crumple zone, the energy is transferred through the anodisation to the significantly weaker aluminium alloy substrate beneath.
From my experience black HA is not as strong as natural HA but one shouldn't fail to recognise that black will show any issues in higher contrast compared to natural which has a far more sympathetic colour to aluminium.

Al

 

[rtt]

Re: SureFire E1E Black HA?

Yes. It is a very nice finish for the E1e (OK, it's very nice for all SFs!).

Black HA is not quite as hard-wearing as natural, though - if you add a dye during the ano process, it weakens the anodising structure slightly. There's an interesting thread on that somewhere, with some excellent pics taken of HA through a microscope.

From what I have been told by Mil spec certified anodising shops, there is no difference in hardness between natural and dyed type 3. What I was told is that type 3 class1 (natural) and type 3 class 2 (dyed) have the same hardness specification and toughness as dictated by type 3 standards and specs. I.E. if the anodising (natural or black) meets Mil spec the item that is anodised must meet the minimum tabor abrasion tests, hardness (Rockwell) and saltwater spray tests outlined by the anodising spec.

Is natural vs black anodising an urban myth? Please correct me if you have a source that states otherwise.

 

[Size15's]

Perhaps the black HA meets the standard and the natural HA far exceeds it?

 

[RobertM]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I went ahead and bought one
I must say, it is WAY brighter than I anticipated being only 15 lumens. This is one awesome little light! :twothumbs

Quick questions...is it normal for their to be a slight gap between the body and bezel? I can take a pic if need be. Anyone have this with their E1e?

Thanks,
Robert

 

[Size15's]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I went ahead and bought one
I must say, it is WAY brighter than I anticipated being only 15 lumens. This is one awesome little light! :twothumbs

Quick questions...is it normal for their to be a slight gap between the body and bezel? I can take a pic if need be. Anyone have this with their E1e?

Thanks,
Robert

Could it be that the PocketClip is preventing the bezel from screwing on flush tight? Sometimes the bend of the PocketClip or the exact shape of the clip's mounting point can be such that this happens.

 

[H2Orower]

Quick questions...is it normal for their to be a slight gap between the body and bezel? I can take a pic if need be. Anyone have this with their E1e?

Thanks,
Robert

I bought an E1E-BK not too long ago and here are a few pictures showing the size of the gap on mine (one with the original head, two with the KL1 head that I added). It seemed pretty consistent with all my other Surefire E-series lights.

 

[RobertM]

I bought an E1E-BK not too long ago and here are a few pictures showing the size of the gap on mine (one with the original head, two with the KL1 head that I added). It seemed pretty consistent with all my other Surefire E-series lights.

Mine looks pretty close to this picture. So is it safe to say that it's pretty normal? This should cause any water issues right?

Robert

 

[Size15's]

Mine looks pretty close to this picture. So is it safe to say that it's pretty normal? This should cause any water issues right?

Robert

If it looks like that then I'd say it was pretty normal.

The E-Series is not designed nor intended to be watertight - they are not waterproof (depth rated). The light in the photo will have sufficient sealage to keep out the weather and the dust/dirt/muck etc of everyday use. Best to check the o-rings on a regular basis for signs of damage, clean them and the threads to ensure the seals are as good as they can be. We have plenty of threads on this topic (o-ring care and maintenance)!

 

[Bruce B]

If your worried bout the slight gap and the possibility of dirt and dust getting in the light, throw a GITD O-Ring between the bezel and the body. Gives the light a cool look as well as protection.

 

[H2Orower]

It just occurred to me that my 2nd and 3rd picture that I posted above are not good representations of a typical gap. When I took those older photos I was trying to make sure that the body name and the head markings were aligned so they would both be visible in a single frame. To do that, I had to back off the head slightly. The first photo with the original head is fully tightened though.

 

[naked2]

Perhaps the black HA meets the standard and the natural HA far exceeds it?

It seems to me (from my personal experience of how my own lights wear), no matter how you state it, natural HA is MUCH more durable than black HA, or other colors for that matter.

I came up with an analogy when shopping with my wife once, I call it the "cookware analogy". While walking down the aisles of a specialty kitchen store I noticed all the new, popular colors of small appliances, mostly Kitchen Aid. There's red, cobalt blue, white, black, etc. Then there's all the matching accesories; utensils, spatulas, even pizza slicers, all in the same colors. There's even silicone oven mitts and other silicone implements, again in matching colors. Many different materials, all in matching colors.

But look down the cookware aisle. ALL, every single brand, of hard anodized cookware, is natural in color. Now don't you think if they made hard anodized pots and pans that matched her blender/spatula/toaster, your wife would want it? Of course she would; most women would.

And I'm sure the marketers know this. There's got to be a reason they don't offer these products in color. And that reason has GOT to be that color is not as durable. Makes sense to me, anyone else?

 

[Size15's]

Sure I guess that makes sense.