Tactical flashlights giving false sense of security?

[arjay]

Here's my story, I just got home and my adrenaline is still pumping. I went out to get coffee with a girl friend and then proceeded her dorm to chat outside and since it was already 1am there was nobody around. About 20-30minutes have passed 2 guys passed by, 1 was very close to me and was staring at me so I stared back,he looked high and I could smell trouble. they walked pass us and we continued talking. 5 minutes later I noticed him walking towards me, I figured that there was going to be a confrontation and reached for my knife. Then I remembered that I left it at home thinking that nothing was going to happen and that I was bringing my E2DL. He was already too close and asked me why I was staring at him, he was obviously looking for a fight. Thinking that drawing my E2DL and him seeing it might mean that I was ready to fight, I did not draw but instead answered his question, he was still looking for a reason to fight and was now within striking distance. His friend told him to leave me alone and at the same time my girl friend took my hand and lead me into her dorm gate, I felt a sudden gush of air behind my left foot and thought that he kicked me but missed. The guard on duty then came out to look for him but he was already gone. The girl I was with was very concerned that he might come back or that he might be waiting for me at the next corner, so she made me take a cab home which was kinda weird since I lived less than a block away.

So this made me think that my E2DL gave me a false sense of security and that I should always carry my knife with me. I know that it can be used as an impact weapon and can inflict damage but relying on it solely for my safety was a bad move. Was I wrong to not draw it and hit him when I had the chance? it was my first confrontation and it scared me but I kept my cool thinking that it might escalate if I panicked. The only good thing that came out of this is I felt the care and concerned on my girl friend. I'm just getting to know her and I can say I like her. I hope she fells the same way

 

[1 what]

Close one arjay.
Any fool can escalate a fight and a weapon is little use unless you have been trained how to use it. The next problem is that you then have to be able to justify its use. If you talk to Police and Doctors they will tell you countless tails of cases where people have had their own weapons turned against them and ended up on the wrong end of the deal.
There is no substitute for a cool head, self control and if necessary a rapid exit. I've also seen one study that indicated a loud rescue whistle that attracted a lot of attention was more likely to help than a weapon. Good luck with the girl.

 

[chitoz28]

I think you did the right thing in keeping your cool arjay. If you would have hit him with that E2DL, it looks like it would have done some good damage and get you in a mess you'd rather not be in. I do usually carry my knife, they are awesome tools if you know how to use them, but I think that would almost be last resort if anything were to go down. And you don't know what he was carring either, maybe some mexican judo. Take it easy and be carefull arjay.

 

[cerberuss]

I agree 100% with you guys.. a cool head is your best defence. You did the right thing... that guy was just waiting for you to make the first move. Oh and don't feel bad that you didn't "stand up for your girl" or anything like that, those days are gone now. It might have worked in the past, but these days... if you pull out your knife, then he'll probably pull out his gun, and If you pull out a gun then him, And his friend, will be back later with Bigger guns. I know this isn't always true... but its Always a possibility... It's just not worth it.

 

[1dash1]

Arjay:

Yes, some people may take false refuge in feeling secure with a flashlight... but the same is true of knives or guns. They are measures of last resort.

The prudent course is what you did and what others have counseled. Be smart and act accordingly.

 

[brighterisbetter]

I remember when I got my Bachelor's Degree, my mother said to me: "Congratulations I'm so proud of you, that's something that no one can ever take away from you." It's a good point; no matter how in debt I may one day be, the bill collectors can't ever take that away from me as it's 'in my head' per se. Same goes for learning a martial art. Once you acquire the skills to defend yourself from an attack with nothing but your own body and mind, you've really accomplished something both practical for real use, and that makes you proud. I choose to train in MMA, not for competition, but for the rare instance where I may have to defend myself or others. As mentioned above, weapons can be turned back on you, but having the right martial art discipline only works in your favor. My .02

To the OP, congrats on keeping your cool. If it were me in the same situation, who knows what I would have done.

In regards to the thread topic, I agree that carrying an impact device as a primary self-defense implement does give a false sense of security. However as the saying goes, "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it."

 

[Badbeams3]

Well, you did the wrong thing...and then the right thing.

Wrong thing...staring...should have just glanced at him, nodded you head.and said "evening" or "hi". When your with a lady..don`t allow yourself risky behavior. You should put any risk to to her at the top...no games.

But from there you did the right thing. And I agree...thinking your light might blind someone for long enough for you to win a fight...fine...but have a gun in the other hand

 

[LED61]

I think you did the right thing. Pause for a moment to ponder where you´d be right now if you had made the first move and successfully neutralized your antagonizer using force ? it would probably not be deadly force but any injuries (and an E2D can cause serious injuries to the head or face) you would have to justify in court.

One hell of a mess for you if you asked me.

Ironically, the cheapest and safest way out in these circumstances sometimes is to chicken out, if you can live with yourself afterwards.

And I have to admit I have acted in this way myself in more than one occasion, where my antagonizer probably walked away a "winner" of a put up fight.

As a general rule, and especially if you are like I am in posession of deadly force, DO NOT ESCALATE A DUMB SITUATION, be it road rage or whatever.

 

[Lightraven]

That sort of confrontation isn't unusual. You handled it the best way--verbally defuse it. I've done it and I've seen what happens to those whose ego demanded they start the fight when the girlfriend was there.

A suggestion on staring--idiots use their eyes and facial expressions to dominate others. Looking away is submission. I recommend lowering your gaze from eyes/face to waistline/hands. It's not aggressive, but you don't take your eyes off the threat. You are looking for the hands to reach for a weapon or attack. One guy walked up to me to ask a question. As his hands started reaching into his pockets, I dropped my gaze and stared at the hands. "No, man, I'm not going for a weapon. I'm on probation now. It's cool, man." He knew what I was doing.

I was a bit scared during a "road rage" situation, not because I thought I'd lose the fight--I was armed for World War III as I usually am and I could see he was not--but because I was afraid of what I might do and the legal consequences.

The "Whadda you lookin' at?!" fights are not good. You can get killed, but have much less legal discretion to protect yourself than in a crime like robbery. Typically, one person goes to the hospital, the other to jail. Those are your choices. No win situation.

I began carrying pepper spray off duty in addition to carrying a gun and knife. It really is the ideal weapon for these types of situations. I also have a Taser and baton I keep in my car just to deal with aggressive, but otherwise non-criminal, persons. It is incredibly easy to justify pepper spray, and it doesn't injure anybody. Somebody gets in your face like that? Pepper spray. I've sprayed about 5 people and two dogs and my coworkers have sprayed lots of people. It usually has some positive effect and is the easiest weapon to justify using.

 

[dudemar]

Just be prepared next time. After all, a flashlight is useless unless it's already in your hand... just like knives, pepper spray, tazers, guns, etc.

Keeping your cool was the best part, that and your girlfriend helping you escape!

Now you can return that "special favor"...

 

[texasheat16]

Sorry to hear that man. Avoid conflict when you can. Sometimes you just gotta swallow your pride. It sounds like you live on a college campus, so a CC gun is out of the question. Even then, that is NOT a license to shoot someone obviously. Even with a knife, it is a LAST RESORT if you cannot run or if you are in immediate danger.

Sorry, I hope I didn't **** off anyone here. I'm not sure how gun friendly this site is.

 

[dudemar]

Sorry to hear that man. Avoid conflict when you can. Sometimes you just gotta swallow your pride. It sounds like you live on a college campus, so a CC gun is out of the question. Even then, that is NOT a license to shoot someone obviously. Even with a knife, it is a LAST RESORT if you cannot run or if you are in immediate danger.

Sorry, I hope I didn't **** off anyone here. I'm not sure how gun friendly this site is.

No worries, you didn't p*** anyone off here. The only problem is he lives in the Philippines, so I don't think the same CC laws apply there.

 

[texasheat16]

No worries, you didn't p*** anyone off here. The only thing is he lives in the Philippines, so I don't think the same CC laws apply there.

whoops your right

 

[foxtrot29]

Here's my story, I just got home and my adrenaline is still pumping. I went out to get coffee with a girl friend and then proceeded her dorm to chat outside and since it was already 1am there was nobody around. About 20-30minutes have passed 2 guys passed by, 1 was very close to me and was staring at me so I stared back,he looked high and I could smell trouble. they walked pass us and we continued talking. 5 minutes later I noticed him walking towards me, I figured that there was going to be a confrontation and reached for my knife. Then I remembered that I left it at home thinking that nothing was going to happen and that I was bringing my E2DL. He was already too close and asked me why I was staring at him, he was obviously looking for a fight. Thinking that drawing my E2DL and him seeing it might mean that I was ready to fight, I did not draw but instead answered his question, he was still looking for a reason to fight and was now within striking distance. His friend told him to leave me alone and at the same time my girl friend took my hand and lead me into her dorm gate, I felt a sudden gush of air behind my left foot and thought that he kicked me but missed. The guard on duty then came out to look for him but he was already gone. The girl I was with was very concerned that he might come back or that he might be waiting for me at the next corner, so she made me take a cab home which was kinda weird since I lived less than a block away.

So this made me think that my E2DL gave me a false sense of security and that I should always carry my knife with me. I know that it can be used as an impact weapon and can inflict damage but relying on it solely for my safety was a bad move. Was I wrong to not draw it and hit him when I had the chance? it was my first confrontation and it scared me but I kept my cool thinking that it might escalate if I panicked. The only good thing that came out of this is I felt the care and concerned on my girl friend. I'm just getting to know her and I can say I like her. I hope she fells the same way

You did the right thing walking away. It would have been a fight over NOTHING of value, and you have to consider the safety of your lady friend.

I agree with all who have commented that any weapon is only as good as the training you have to back it up.

 

[arjay]

Thank you for your kind words guys. I was replaying the scenario in my head and I think that if I did hit him first, I would have to justify the use of force. About using peper spray, the lady I was with did have one and was about to use it as she told me, I think that would have just pissed of the guy even further and as I said he looked high on drugs and I have read of stories that even a bullet thru an assailant who is on drugs will not always stop them instantly. The lady I was with is still shaken until now. She just moved here a few months ago and is a freshman.

For those who recommended/mention a gun to CC, I'm only 19 and yes a college student. One has to be 21 to legally own a gun in my country and I'm not allowed to CC in campus. The security is very tight to a point that even scissors are not allowed in unless there is a permit from the discipline's office.

I think that fighting him was not a logical action since the odds were against me at that time. Walking away and not giving in to what he wanted was the best decision I've made, otherwise I could be in a hospital right now or even worse DEAD! I thank God for keeping an eye on me last night. Thanks again guys for your suggestions and insights.

Regards,
Arjay

 

[phoneguy]

Alot of good advice here. Always walk away when you can. I grew up with a father that held a black belt in Shotokan, a black belt in jui jitsu, and a brown belt in judo and was the instructor for a police dept. I am one of 4 boys and we all learned how to fight for our protection but were also drilled about not fighting. I also got into another art with my son, Kuk Sool, a very well rounded Korean art. My instructor also taught in the same manner so my son understands this as well.. It is nice to know that I can fight if needed but that I don't have too to prove anything nor do I want to go to jail for killing someone. I don't care what other peoples perception of me is for walking away. I have only been in one street fight in last twenty years which was very recent and I could have ( and should have )handled it differently but I lost my cool. It was very ugly, as I tend to get tunnel-vision when I fight and continued to beat him after he was well out, but this clown WILL think twice before he grabs another womans breast again.
( yes it was my wife )
A martial art will give you the confidence and the smarts to walk away from confrontation, I highly recommend them.

I also carry a firearm most of the time as the law allows it here.

Bryan

 

[Oddjob]

Your mind is your best weapon and avoiding conflict is always the best thing to do IMO. It's one thing to fight if your life or the life of someone you love is in danger but there no sense in fighting over nothing.

 

[hyperloop]

good move not drawing your light, that may have provoked an attack and if you had struck first, his friend who had been neutral throughout may have stepped in and then it would 2 on 1. Most important, consider the safety of your girl friend first, everything else is secondary.

Have seen so many fights erupt over the most trivial of things "why you staring at my girl?" and wham! time to leave the club.

the legal consquences of using your knife had you had it on you without first being attacked or at least in fear for your safety might have been bad on you. So, it's a good thing you kept your cool man.

 

[hyperloop]

Alot of good advice here. Always walk away when you can. I grew up with a father that held a black belt in Shotokan, a black belt in jui jitsu, and a brown belt in judo and was the instructor for a police dept. I am one of 4 boys and we all learned how to fight for our protection but were also drilled about not fighting. I also got into another art with my son, Kuk Sool, a very well rounded Korean art. My instructor also taught in the same manner so my son understands this as well.. It is nice to know that I can fight if needed but that I don't have too to prove anything nor do I want to go to jail for killing someone. I don't care what other peoples perception of me is for walking away. I have only been in one street fight in last twenty years which was very recent and I could have ( and should have )handled it differently but I lost my cool. It was very ugly, as I tend to get tunnel-vision when I fight and continued to beat him after he was well out, but this clown WILL think twice before he grabs another womans breast again.
( yes it was my wife )
A martial art will give you the confidence and the smarts to walk away from confrontation, I highly recommend them.

I also carry a firearm most of the time as the law allows it here.

Bryan

no shame losing your cool if the #(%^(*@ grabbed your wife man, not being trained in any martial art, i woulda still attempted to kick the living daylights out of any man who touched my wife, THEN call the police.

 

[mdocod]

Glad everything worked out OK.

I have been delivering pizzas for 6 years now. I have a routine for delivering, and I apply it regardless of how good or bad the neighborhood is. I'm not supposed to carry weapons, but there is no rule against flashlights, and I believe mace is OK also, something I have been meaning to start carrying but never have.

The routine is pretty simple but has always kept me out of trouble.

1. Quick survey of the region, be aware of surroundings, use all of your vision and absorb as much information about the surroundings as possible. Use flashlight to illuminate totally dark corners and areas.
2. Know where the exits are. Develop backup plans and potential escape routes. Make note of weapons of opportunity in each region.
3. If I pass a person, or group of peoples, especially if they look suspicious on my way into a location, I make a point to exit a different route, even if it means a long walk. Most muggers know to wait until after the pizza is delivered, increasing the amount of $$$ on the pizza guy. I have used this routine at least a few times, and feel it may have actually saved me front a confrontation.
4. Move with brisk confidence. Walking with a large stride and confident but happy appearance has an effect on people around you. If someone is out looking for someone to fight or mug, they are often looking for someone who they perceive to be weaker.
5. Muggers and potential attackers often take a moment to size up the situation, they will often times try to stop you with some distracting conversation before initiating any hostile behavior, like asking to bum a smoke, do not stop moving as this puts you where they want you to catch you off guard. Have quick but friendly response ready for people who initiate conversation or questioning in dark places. Answer the question in a friendly manner "Sorry I don't smoke, have a nice evening sir" and keep moving, get in the car and leave. They won't even have a chance to make their threat this way.


Obviously this sort of routine is based on pizza delivery, but it has served me well for many years and I have gotten better at it and more comfortable with it in those years. Many of the same concepts can be applied to any situation.

Eric