The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote! PART 2

[CoachV]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

I would like to remove my vote for the Quark 123*2 Turbo and add a vote for the Surefire 6P and the Malkoff M61 Drop-In. The SF 6P with the Malkoff Drop In is a fantastic light and my new favorite!

 

[wyager]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

+1 for nitecore D10 please. :wave:

 

[safety first]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

Sure Fire 6P

 

[RichS]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

All votes added.

And with that, the 6P takes the #2 spot from the H501!

I would like to remove my vote for the Quark 123*2 Turbo and add a vote for the Surefire 6P and the Malkoff M61 Drop-In. The SF 6P with the Malkoff Drop In is a fantastic light and my new favorite!

Vote for the Quark 123*2 removed, and 6P & M61 votes added.

 

[KevinL]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

My vote:
U2 Digital Ultra.. still the ULTRA after all these years

 

[Minjin]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

I don't get all the votes for the 6P. Does anyone actually use it as a 6P anymore, with a P60 or P61? If not, it's not a 6P. We might as well vote for a Maglite 2 or 3 D as a "must have" purely because of the mods we do to it.

If you're just using it as a host, I find it very difficult to recommend when you can get something like a Solarforce L2 for 10 dollars shipped. :shrug:

 

[JNewell]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

I don't get all the votes for the 6P. Does anyone actually use it as a 6P anymore, with a P60 or P61? If not, it's not a 6P. We might as well vote for a Maglite 2 or 3 D as a "must have" purely because of the mods we do to it.

If you're just using it as a host, I find it very difficult to recommend when you can get something like a Solarforce L2 for 10 dollars shipped. :shrug:

I don't get why a 6P is not a 6P if you change the light source. Is a Maglite 2D something else if you substitute another incan bulb? What if you use an LED drop-in?

I think there's a lot of difference between the 6P and the L2, but that's a matter of personal choice.

 

[Minjin]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

I don't get why a 6P is not a 6P if you change the light source. Is a Maglite 2D something else if you substitute another incan bulb? What if you use an LED drop-in?

I think there's a lot of difference between the 6P and the L2, but that's a matter of personal choice.

So, in your opinion, just how much can you change and have it remain the same light?

I'll help you out a little bit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

 

[Monocrom]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

{SureFire 6P}

If you're just using it as a host, I find it very difficult to recommend when you can get something like a Solarforce L2 for 10 dollars shipped. :shrug:

Sorry, but as someone who owns examples of both; yes, there is a difference. And I mean in overall quality. But other details need to be noted. I bought the first version of the L2 host. Came with a reverse-clicky, a ridiculously aggressive strike-bezel, and no drop-in. (It also didn't enjoy 18650 compatibility which is a big selling point for SolarForce now.)

I like my L2 host now . . . After replacing the ridiculous bezel ring with a smoother stainless steel one, and using the momentary-on tailcap from my SolarForce L600 on it. (The tailcap being the only thing of actual quality on the now discontinued L600. Unfortunately, they discontinued the tailcap as well.)

Even in stock form, the SureFire 6P is still an excellent light. Can't speak for other CPFers, but I do have a 6P that is stock. Hell, I have a C2 that is stock as well. An E2E that's stock. And most likely a few other SureFires, including my M6.

6P is excellent on its own. But as flashaholics we greedily want more of everything. And that's perfectly fine. But even in stock form, the 6P outclasses a standard 3D M@glite in size and output.

 

[JNewell]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

So, in your opinion, just how much can you change and have it remain the same light?

I'll help you out a little bit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Oh, thank you. :thinking: I will consider myself...illuminated. :duh2: Please read on...

The Ship of Theseus, also known as Theseus' paradox, or various variants, notably grandfather's axe (US) and Trigger's Broom (UK) is a paradox that raises the question of whether an object which has had all its component parts replaced remains fundamentally the same object.

Plutarch thus questions whether the ship would remain the same if it were entirely replaced, piece by piece.

You aren't even close...not even remotely.

 

[wyager]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

Oh, thank you. :thinking: I will consider myself...illuminated. :duh2: Please read on...




You aren't even close...not even remotely.

The ship paradox applies to only one of the replacement paradoxes. According to Aristotle, using a dropin or changing the switch to a different model or anything like that WOULD make the light a different object-and as I understand it, the same goes for jewish law (I didn't look for any more systems where this is the case). Looking at the whole article, it's clear many philosophers believe that upgrades or modifications change the object in to something else.

Have you noticed how whenever someone mods a mag 2D, they make it very clear they have done so? A maglite with an SSC-50 is not referred to as simply a "2D mag". The same should apply to surefire, but for some reason many people act as though it does not.

 

[Monocrom]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

Not quite the same, but reminds me of a conversation between two guys. One mentions he's used the same hatchet going on 50 years. The other guy asks why he doesn't just buy a new one. First guy reponds that he's happy with it.

After all . . . He's only replaced the handle three times, and the head twice.

 

[wyager]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

Not quite the same, but reminds me of a conversation between two guys. One mentions he's used the same hatchet going on 50 years. The other guy asks why he doesn't just buy a new one. First guy reponds that he's happy with it.

After all . . . He's only replaced the handle three times, and the head twice.

That's mentioned in the wikipedia article. "Grandfather's/George Washington's axe"

 

[JNewell]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

Replacing a bulb with another bulb isn't even close...replacing an incan bulb with an LED isn't close, either.

I will describe for you a light that might be getting close. I don't think it's there, but I think you have to go about this far to even have a discussion. My ancient EDC 6Z has, under SureFire's warranty, had the following replaced: two tailcaps; two lanyard rings; easily half a dozen lexan windows; one bezel complete with Pyrex window; several P60 LAs and, finally, a Malkoff M61. The body tube is the only original part. I would argue it's still the same light, but I'd be able to see someone thinking otherwise. And, I'd say that the fact that this light is still in everyday service is a very, very strong indication of why its close kin, the 6P, should be at the top of that list. :thumbsup:

 

[wyager]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

If I take a quark AA^2 tactical warm white head and put it on a quark AA regular cool white body, it would be absolutely retarded to call it a quark AA^2 regular cool white. Same goes for replacing other parts... but mostly dropins, as according to aristotle, they change the function.

 

[AlphaZen]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

Is a SureFire still a SureFire if you replace the stock electronics and light source with another company's drop-in? Hard to say, but I would say not entirely. It doesn't have the same reliability or performance (whether that increases or decreases).

That being said, can I vote for the SureFire 6P because I love it's form, how it started the "drop-in" craze, and how versatile it is because of it? Absolutely.

It is a good question, but in regards to this forum's topic of a must-have light it seems as though anyone has the right to vote for a 6P as such.

 

[wacbzz]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

So what about the 6P with the new KX4 head? Its function surely cannot be changed. It IS, however, a 6P through and through.

After reading a few pages of this thread though, I suspect that when most people are voting for the 6P, they are voting for the version that has been out for years with the removable bezel.

Except for Monocrom (), they aren't voting for the 6P with any stock SF LED know to man. Look at how many posts there are listing the various drop-ins going into that host.

I would be more inclined to distinguish between the 6P as a whole light (as it came from the factory - meaning using the original SF drop-in and tailcap) and as a host.

I think given that view, the 6P would still be up there, but as a host only - not as a whole SF light.

 

[Minjin]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

Is a SureFire still a SureFire if you replace the stock electronics and light source with another company's drop-in? Hard to say, but I would say not entirely. It doesn't have the same reliability or performance (whether that increases or decreases).

That being said, can I vote for the SureFire 6P because I love it's form, how it started the "drop-in" craze, and how versatile it is because of it? Absolutely.

It is a good question, but in regards to this forum's topic of a must-have light it seems as though anyone has the right to vote for a 6P as such.

I'm not trying to stomp on anyone's rights. I'm just trying to have a discussion.

I find the philosophical question interesting which is why I brought it up, but lets keep it more grounded in reality and context. Don't forget that the context of this thread is lights that you would recommend as a must have. If someone sees you using your 6P with upgraded clicky tail cap and high dollar Malkoff drop in and they ask what the light is so they can buy one, do you just say 6P? Because, that to me is the context of the thread. If you wouldn't say 6P then (because it would be foolish and would set the other person up for disappointment), then you shouldn't say 6P now.

 

[wyager]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

If you wouldn't say 6P then (because it would be foolish and would set the other person up for disappointment), then you shouldn't say 6P now.

Exactly... If I was a noob, this is the first thread I would come to to look for a light to buy... I would feel pretty bad if I made someone spend like $60 on a light that's pretty crappy without upgrading the lamp, and they had no clue this was the case. That said, if it said "6P with so and so dropin", you're setting them up to buy an awesome light and letting them know what they're getting in to.

 

[DHart]

Re: The Flashaholic's "Must-Have" List -- Cast your vote!

For me... a vote for a 6P is a vote for a 6P clone (18650) body and empty bezel (or clone), with a Z59 tailcap (Surefire wins this part of the flashlight for sure) and a Malkoff P- drop-in of some sort.

How many 6P votes really are for "stock" 6P's? I would guess not many.

A "stock" Surefire 6P really doesn't do anything for me due to a non-competitive lamp assembly, a body that won't accept 18650, and a twisty (though good quality) Z41 tailcap.

In fact, my favorite "6P" is a Solarforce head (which has a steel, flush-fitting bezel ring - Surefire's bezel ring is plastic!), a FiveMega 18650 body, a genuine Z59 tailcap, and a Malkoff drop-in, running an 18650 cell. So not "really" a 6P, but sort of? :thinking: