The NEW H502 "Wet Poll" - Is Your H502 Waterproof?

Is your H502 Waterproof?


  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .

Esko

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Nov 17, 2008
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Ah. Thanks for the research. Personally I am dubious of all Wikipedia entries, I suspect they're largely sourced by unemployed advocates of various stripes. Wikipedia has been "fully penetrated" as far as I'm concerned, and many have been the times that Wikipedia has led me astray.

The three described failures... Q8iGunner (shower), DavidT (I don't remember how it failed, dunk maybe). Who was the third? Looking other old threads, not finding the third...

I found another report of "pass" in the ZLH502 thread not reported here. Jacklight said "my H502 survived a trip through the washer and dryer in my shorts pocket..."

The rather few Wikipedia articles I have read have usually been fairly accurate (as far as I know), or alternatively they have dealt with subjects that I have already known to require skeptical views... This however is a subject that should be easy to get right, because there is lots of people that have access to the actual standard and lots of people that need it in their work, too.

I remember that it was 3 failures in the lost thread. Two before it and the third one posted in the thread, stating that he is the third (I have a cached version at home and if needed, can check it late tomorrow). Based on this old response from riccardo.dv, I guess he was the third (or first) one.
 

fiberguy

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I didn't give mine any of the fancy IPX-8 tests or anything like that, but it's survived 3 nights of working outdoors in the rain now. Probably 30 minutes to an hour/night. When I remember, I'll bring it in after work and give it a nice little dunk or wear it while I shower. I'll get back with more updated info when that happens.
 

Jacklight

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My wife sent my 502D through the washer and dryer in my shorts pocket. It survived. When I opened the battery compartment it was dry inside and there was no sign of moisture in the len's area either, but its possible the dryer had something to do with that. That was about a month ago and so far no problems.
 

sbbsga

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Nov 27, 2011
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I was washing my hands earlier and decided to try my luck after nearly 2 months of ownership. Never had it properly wet before, the worst was droplets from wet hands.

The H502 had just been turned off from H1 after a few minutes of usage. It was a little warm when water flowed around it. I patted it dry, turned it around so the glass faces me and I saw a drop of water behind the glass. Oops!

I know how it got in so I decided to tap the droplet to the edge of the glass and turned it on H1. After a few seconds, it was pushed out. Now, the exit was either at glass-bezel or bezel-body or both. So I guess the entry point was around there too. Anyway, a little bit was still left inside after the initial drying, so I repeated the steps until no more can be seen. I also blew out the water around the button just in case.

All the modes and programability are still fine; no dampness in the battery compartment and it is still on H1 after a fresh Eneloop just to be sure.

It failed IPX-8 but survived. Your mileage may vary. All the best!
 

beastie boar

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Since my last post in this thread disappeared during the latest (?) server crash and because scientifically valid experiments must be repeatable, I redid the test with my H502d about 3 hours ago, albeit with some "slight" enhancements.
Condition of sealing prior to test: oring lubed with olive oil some days ago (yeah I know that some inferior oring materials might dissolve, but the problem did not occur yet with any of my lights to which I applied it [surefire, streamlight, zebralight arc, fenix, m@g].
- 15 min on H1 to heat up light
- turn light off and without any delay sink it in rain water barrel filled with more than 47 cm of water and clip turned sideways, at which light is attached to dental floss for 40 min
- pull on dental floss rapidly so light is lifted out of water at let it immediately sink again; repeated 50 times; during this procedure the light turned on twice due to the forced involved
- sink light for another 60 mins
- take light out of water, rinse with tap water and let it dry while being turned on

Result: Not the slightest signs of water ingress detectable until now. If this should change I will surely post an update.
No photos, sorry. You'll have to take my word for it.
 

skycamnz

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Apr 3, 2012
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Since my last post in this thread disappeared during the latest (?) server crash and because scientifically valid experiments must be repeatable, I redid the test with my H502d about 3 hours ago, albeit with some "slight" enhancements.
Condition of sealing prior to test: oring lubed with olive oil some days ago (yeah I know that some inferior oring materials might dissolve, but the problem did not occur yet with any of my lights to which I applied it [surefire, streamlight, zebralight arc, fenix, m@g].
- 15 min on H1 to heat up light
- turn light off and without any delay sink it in rain water barrel filled with more than 47 cm of water and clip turned sideways, at which light is attached to dental floss for 40 min
- pull on dental floss rapidly so light is lifted out of water at let it immediately sink again; repeated 50 times; during this procedure the light turned on twice due to the forced involved
- sink light for another 60 mins
- take light out of water, rinse with tap water and let it dry while being turned on

Result: Not the slightest signs of water ingress detectable until now. If this should change I will surely post an update.
No photos, sorry. You'll have to take my word for it.

Think it's safe to say your light has successfully passed the waterproof test! A very testing experiment. Great work!
 

Bolster

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Poll Summary:

I set this poll to run for two weeks, and it's now closed. It got nearly 1,500 views, so it received plenty of exposure.

The previous (anonymous) poll, which got lost in the server crash, ended with 4 fails out of 11 trials (36% fail). There was some concern expressed that the anonymous poll allowed 'fans' or 'haters' to post bogus tests. So with this repeat non-anonymous poll, we have 1 fail (sbbsga) out of 10 tests (10% fail), and I think the tests are fairly well described. I realize that the poll results say 2 fails out of 11 tests, but one person reporting a "fail" based it on being able to force air through the lens area with the "suck-test", without conducting an actual wet-test. My wet-test passed, and I could also force air through the lens area, so that puts the suck-test in doubt as an accurate "proxy" test. The suck-test may be a much more rigorous test than intuition tells us.

Then we have the issue of two water fails being reported in other threads: Q8iGunner, & Riccardo.dv. [Edit: DavidT's issue, previously reported here, was not water related, so removed.] Why these users did not post in this thread is a mystery.

The issue of more fails reported in the anonymous test is also interesting. It does raise the issue of how many of those reports were drive-by shootings (or drive-by helpings). Unless of course they were all from people who decided not to answer the new poll, for some unknown reason.

Personally, I have lost faith in anonymous polls here on CPF. I think the opportunity for monkey-business it allows, is too large. I also have concerns that brand loyalty, or brand hatred, causes people to fudge data to help or hurt a favored or disliked brand. This makes no sense to me, but, the possibility exists. I propose that polls in the future ask people to identify themselves by screen name. (We're all anonymous with our usernames anyway). At least a non-anonymous poll allows readers to probe for information, ask follow-up questions, etc, which I think is good.

Regards whether ZL has a "problem" or has "no problem" with the H502 waterproofing is, of course, up to your interpretation. It's definitely a "low-n" test with few responses, but it's better than wild speculation. If you go strictly on this poll, you might think 10% is in the acceptable range for uncontrolled self-tests of unknown rigor, or you may not. It's hard to come to a conclusion on the basis of a single clear fail. On the other hand, if you count both reported fails in this thread (even the suck-test one, which would mean you'd have to count mine as a failure too, even though mine passed a dunk test, so that would make it three) and add them to the three others reported elsewhere, that seems like a lot of fails. However, in that case, you don't have a denominator, just a numerator. You don't know if that's 4 (or 6) out of 13, or 130, or 1300. So this poll didn't give us any unambiguous answers, but I think the safest interpretation is to take the poll at face value, which is one fail of ten, and to admit we need about 4x that data before we could start having much confidence in the results.
 
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climberkid

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I am glad you did the poll again. You led discussion and responded very well. Thanks for taking the time you have to help the forum. I wish we had more people who spent as much time on here as some of us do! :lovecpf:


-Alex
 

Grizzman

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Jul 6, 2012
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Unfortunately, it would take several magnitude more than the responses we received in this pole to come to an adequate conclusion as to the effectiveness of the design.

All I can say is that if you are concerned with your light......get it wet and see what happens, preferrably not right before you'll need it for real.

Thanks for the effort, Bolster.

Grizz
 
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Esko

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Nov 17, 2008
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The previous (anonymous) poll, which got lost in the server crash, ended with 4 fails out of 11 trials (36% fail).

I am sorry, I didn't read your previous question carefully enough (not my native language). I believe it was 4 fails and 11 passes, ie. 15 trials.

Once we started to speculate, I would like to add a few points.

If your light fails the test, it is of course a lot more probable that you tell about it in discussion forum. However, how many active CPF members always perform waterproof tests to their new lights? I doubt that it is very common. Now, how many of those people did buy this special reflectorles full flood headlamp? My guess is, only a little fraction of those people. I believe we are talking about a pretty small group of people here.

Now, some reports and concerns pop up and a poll is created. If you don't regularly test your lights but decide to do it AFTER a poll is set up, it is much more probable that you report the results, whether it was a fail or a pass.

Another thing that I would like to ask is, how common it is that once a new light is released (regardless of brand), users report water leaking into those new and newly released lights? A single report? Or a couple reports? Is that normal? Common? Every month? Once a year? This is a sincere question since I seldom follow discussions regarding single flashlight models, and have never seen these kind of reports before.
 

Bolster

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I'm fairly certain the previous poll didn't get up to n=15, but I could be wrong. The reason I think this, is I remember fretting that "11 people isn't very many to answer the poll."

If your light fails the test, it is of course a lot more probable that you tell about it in discussion forum.

Very true. This is where problems will pop up for sure. For example, I've noticed several long-running discussions of problems with the SF Saint. It's generally regarded as a very high quality light, but you might not get that impression if you read all the failure reports here on CPF. I'm suspicious it's as you say, a quality light with vocal critics.

Now, how many of those people did buy this special reflectorles full flood headlamp? My guess is, only a little fraction of those people.

Perhaps; on the other hand, with the main H502 thread logging 140 thousand views, we can say there was a lot of interest in the H502, and that might translate into high sales. Only ZL knows.

Another thing that I would like to ask is, how common it is that once a new light is released (regardless of brand), users report water leaking into those new and newly released lights? A single report? Or a couple reports? Is that normal? Common?

The frequency is totally and completely biased, of course, by the general interest in the light and how many people purchase it. Nobody's reporting the Dosun headlamps leak--hardly anybody owns them. Whereas ZL is far and away the most popular, most owned, and most discussed light on this forum, so inevitably there would be more discussions of failures of ZL, even if the base rates of all lights were exactly the same.

That's why the denominator (that is, the question, "out of how many?") is so important. You can't draw conclusions by examining the numerator alone. The denominator corrects for frequency of ownership (popularity).

It's remarkable, but you'll have people look at this poll like this, that has a numerator and a denominator, and say, "you can't determine anything by that" (with some justification, since it's low-n) and then they'll jump to a conclusion based on examining the numerator all by itself (in other words, just the number of times they see a problem mentioned, without factoring ownership size). I believe that's called the "baserate fallacy," that people are prone not to consider base rates before coming to conclusions about incidents.
 
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Esko

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Nov 17, 2008
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You are right, we were talking about 11 trials only. It is weird though, since I think I reviewed the results first at 3 fails and 10 passes, and later with 4 fails and 11 passes. Not sure any more. :shrug:

Another thing that I would like to ask is, how common it is that once a new light is released (regardless of brand), users report water leaking into those new and newly released lights? A single report? Or a couple reports? Is that normal? Common?
The frequency is totally and completely biased, of course, by the general interest in the light and how many people purchase it. Nobody's reporting the Dosun headlamps leak--hardly anybody owns them. Whereas ZL is far and away the most popular, most owned, and most discussed light on this forum, so inevitably there would be more discussions of failures of ZL, even if the base rates of all lights were exactly the same.

I guess I didn't ask precisely enough. I am not talking about headlamps only. 4Sevens flashlights are popular in CPF. How many models have received leaking reports as new? What about Surefires (another popular brand)? Fenix? Sunwayman? Eagletac? Nitecore? Jetbeam? Thrunite? Were they considered as "normal"? The flashlight section has ten times more threads and answers than headlamp section, but I don't browse those threads much. I wish someone could enlighten me about the leaking issues. How common are they among new lights?
 

Beacon of Light

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Dec 9, 2005
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I will not purposely try to submerge my H502 or even my new H51s. I did by accident leave a H50 in my pocket of shorts I had packed on my trip to California a few weeks ago. It was in a leg pocket so I didn't know it was in there. Well after pulling the laundry out of the dryer my heart sank when I saw the H50. The tailcap was closed so thank God I didn't back out the threads to interrupt parasitic drain. I opened the cap and everything was dry, but I wasn't convinced no damage was done, so I put cap back on and tightenened it and voila! The darned thing worked like if nothing ever happened! I remember reading this thread about the H502s not being waterproof so I was sure the older H50 was most definitely NOT waterproof considering it was an older inferior design. Well I was pleasantly surprised and I will never make that mistake again.
 

Cunha

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May 31, 2011
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Backing the cap off should not make your light fail to be waterproof. The O ring only makes contact with the side of the tail cap anyways, it doesn't need to be compressed by the tail cap to create a seal. It should be fine.

If I didn't trust my Zebralights to be waterproof I would just throw them away. I suck tested mine and then put it in water and it did not get water inside.
 

vtunderground

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For what it's worth... I've used my Zebralight SC51F under 6' of water, and it hasn't leaked. I personally trust Zebralight as much (or more) than most other non-dive lights.
 

moozooh

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Dec 11, 2011
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I haven't posted here, have I... I recently got another H502d as a birthday gift to a friend; it had a stiffer switch with rubber cover that felt a little differently.

Anyway, I put both mine and the new one under a faucet—quite a better test than merely dunking it in a glass in my opinion. While they were covered with the water stream, I rotated the lights to make sure all sides are thoroughly drenched, pressed the switch a number of times, and so on. No signs of leaking anywhere.
 

lightcycle1

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Feb 16, 2013
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I have a daily used 1.5-2 yr old H51nt that's out for repair. The switch failed or something came loose with the electronics in the head.

I ordered a new H502d to use while the H51 is out of my hands. I'll have 2 of them when I get my original back or the replacement.
I will not intentionally submerge either one to attempt to force a failure to prove a point.

I have had my H51 out in pretty good rains, no problems. The worst case scenario for me will be that I drop either one in the drink for a few moments while night fishing
or something stupider, like in the toilet. (Which will make me grimace and go ewwww but I will happily fish it out by hand.)

So if it happens to take on water through accidental exposure and it fails, I'll take it up with Zebralight at that time. Zebralight addressed my problems with my H51 promptly
and with no hassle so I'm not worried about their response to any failure of any kind.
 

Bolster

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I will not intentionally submerge either one to attempt to force a failure to prove a point.

Ah, but your timidity does prove a point nonetheless! J/K, perfectly understandable. Still, your statement borders on the melodramatic. I don't submerge to force a failure. If the light wishes to fail of its own volition, I merely give it the chance while it's still under warrantee. And happily, none of my ZLs have failed. I'm now of the mind that any light with an IPX7 or 8 rating should get a dunk when new. I'd rather find out immediately and rectify the problem straight away.

Do I dunk out-of-warrantee lights? Not on your life!
 
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