Tripped PCB on AW 18650 - how to fix?

[Ray1968]

I have a Leef 2 x 18650 with a Z46 head and an MN11. It was sitting in a drawer unused for probably 2-3 months. I pulled it out yesterday and it wouldn't turn on. Pulled the cells and one reads 3.98 and the other 0.0 on the DMM.

Not sure why the PCB tripped on this cell (I'm assuming that's why it reads 0.0), but what should my next step be here? What's the best way to 'untrip' the PCB? The cell has been charged maybe 3-4 times total on an UltraFire WF139.

Thanks.

 

[gcbryan]

Put both cells into a recharger.

 

[Ray1968]

Tried that. Doesn't seem to work with the WF139 (I think it needs some voltage there to recognize the cell). I found another thread that mentioned briefly running the cell in parallel with a good cell to untrip it. This worked, and it's now on the charger.

Still wonder why it tripped though, and if something may be wrong with it.

 

[gcbryan]

There may be something wrong with it if just putting it on the charger doesn't work.

They are suppose to trip once the voltage gets below a certain level...that's the whole point.

Putting it on the charger resets it. You may have a bad cell.

If it was almost at the "trip level" when you stored it and if the battery drained just a little that would account for it as well. But then again, the charger would be the solution.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Ray1968,

Place the other cell on the charger for about an hour and then remove it from the charger. Now, parallel the two cells together for about a second. This should reset the protection circuit.

Tom

 

[VidPro]

and the next step after that would probably be testing that cell, for self discharge
but the other cell wasnt exactally charged either, so also check parasitic draw on the flashlight. People say parasitic draw isnt large at some .3Pico amps or whatever.
on the other hand, some of the parasitic draws i have seen can barely be measured, and via the light or the protection you gotta charge it every few months cause It IS that bad. sure 1 year my butt, check it well in reality first then tell me its one year. Me like real Cutoff disconnecty switch thing.

it dont hurt to check a few things EASILY.
Charge the cell , wait 1/2hour check the voltage, wait 2 days , check the voltage.
Charge both cells, put them in light , wait 2 weeks , pull them check the voltage
then wonder.
if everything is as it should be, then your all set, if it aint adjust to fit the situation.
if things are going ary, it could be many things that could be causing it (not just parasites) but then you KNOW.

 

[ampdude]

Tried that. Doesn't seem to work with the WF139 (I think it needs some voltage there to recognize the cell). I found another thread that mentioned briefly running the cell in parallel with a good cell to untrip it. This worked, and it's now on the charger.

Still wonder why it tripped though, and if something may be wrong with it.

How did you run the cell in parallel? What did you use as a load? Do you have some type of tester board? I wish I still had mine!

 

[45/70]

How did you run the cell in parallel? What did you use as a load? Do you have some type of tester board? I wish I still had mine!

......Now, parallel the two cells together for about a second. This should reset the protection circuit.

I've found that setting the cells on the stainless steel strip around the kitchen sink works well. I just set the two cells (upside down) on the strip and then take a fork and touch it accross the negative end for a couple seconds. Crude, but effective! :naughty:

Dave

 

[Ray1968]

I've found that setting the cells on the stainless steel strip around the kitchen sink works well. I just set the two cells (upside down) on the strip and then take a fork and touch it accross the negative end for a couple seconds. Crude, but effective! :naughty:

Dave

Yes, I had to use a 'ghetto-method' myself. Laying them flat on a table, I used two RCR123 spacers from my WF139 on the bottom of the cells, and then used a screwdriver in each hand across the bottom and top of the cells.

It worked.....

 

[Qoose]

The not so ghetto method:

I bought a few magnets from DX that I can stick both batteries to. Plus you can then stick that to a metal surface so it doesn't move. Then bridge the other two ends with something like a wire. I was careful and bridged it using my multimeter on the 10A setting, so I could watch the amps flow.

 

[degarb]

Hello Ray1968,

Place the other cell on the charger for about an hour and then remove it from the charger. Now, parallel the two cells together for about a second. This should reset the protection circuit.

Tom

My Fenix ARE c1 could reset a tripped 18650. But not any other of my several chargers. My 2 bay fenix charger just broke-probably worker got it wet.

Really Tom, my wife, nor kids, nor workers, would ever be able to do the parallel trick to reset a cell. They wouldn't observe a bay failing to charge, fail to diagnose. Absolutely, fail to do this properly. Got to have a charger that can just untrip the cell automatically.

Will the Fenix are c4 untrip and charge a tripped 18650? Other brands with auto 18650 pcb reset?

 

[recDNA]

Wow. I think you guys are taking chances that are not worth the risk. I put the battery in my xtar charger. I've never had one not charge but if it did I would throw it away without a second thought. Better safe than sorry. Maybe it tripped because of an internal short. You are literally playing with fire.

 

[kreisl]

tripped protections are not released by the chargers directly. They are released by the internal cell voltage. And yes this internal cell voltage can be raised by pumping electric charge into the "zero volts battery".

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Degarb,

The price of using newer technology is understanding the in's and out's of how it works. This includes the safety aspects involved.

If you wife, kids, and co-workers are not willing to educate themselves on what is involved using protected Li-Ion cells and chargers, you should expose them to lights that use a different chemistry.

I do agree that this should be taken care of by the charger, but many people look for a very low priced charger and many of those are unable to reset a hard tripped protection circuit.

Tom

 

[degarb]

I have no problem paying $100 for a charger, like the Fenix are c4. My $50 xtar would have me throwing all my brand new protected Panasonic's after first use, since naturally they cut off at 3volts. Not zero nor even low 2.5. I think the lowest protection I own is 2.9 vokt range. I even , in the real world, will lack the tools to reset, despite carrying a volt meter and a battery kit. The real world, this kit may lack the wire or be a block or ten floors down. The two bay Fenix charger of 2013, I believe, made charging tripped cells seamless, unlike my xtar 6&4 bay chargers. I have been shipped cheap Chinese charger with some lights, but threw them in the trash. Perhaps, I should have kept them for cell drawn down to 3 volts?

 

[degarb]

So, considering different generations of these better chargers, which can handle tripped cells?

 

[degarb]

Might have to buy a 2x 18650 holder, insert (reversed) one cell, hide with tape, wire, and tape to the xtar. But really just willing to pay more for a model guaranteed to charged protected cells that hit the 3 volt or upper twos mark and trip.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Degarb,

It is my understanding that to reset a hard tripped protection circuit you need both voltage and current.

Going back into history the original Pila charger charged to 4.6 volts with a maximum current of 1500 mA. It had no problem resetting the protection circuit. However, it would only work with protected cells and used the upper voltage protection to terminate the charge.

Back then we didn't understand as much about Li-Ion chemistry as we do now. Back then you ran the light until the protection circuit kicked in and shut the light down. We would then drop the cell into the charger, the protection circuit would be reset and the cell would charge back up.

Legal action prompted Pila to redesign their charger. The Pila IBC charger now only charges to 4.2 volts at a charging current of 600 mA. Hard tripped protection circuits are mostly taken care of, but there are a few that the new Pila charger can reset. This leaves you to using the manual reset method.

Most of us now recharge early rather than running the cell down until the protection kicks in so we usually don't run into this problem.

The other issue is that for smaller cells hitting it with 1500 mA may not provide the longest life.

As with everything else, there are trade offs and workarounds.

Tom

 

[degarb]

4.6 volts is insane. Or am I not mistaken? My xtar consistently charges the cells to 4.35, which concerned me.

I think you post has typo. Meaning a few cells the pila can't recharge. I read your post twice. I assume you recommend the pila. And to avoid used chargers or old eBay models.

I had really perfect luck with the 2013 two bay Fenix for resetting and 4.19 volt cutoff. Should I pay the $91 for the four bay in 2015?

If anyone interested, I ripped the controllers out that drove my lights harder than the cells can provide for 8 hours cc, then drive at %80 of that. While I hit bottom, it is after a Max day of 260 ma per cell. I am not a fan of the wow factor, just a well designed light that is up to date. Charged daily, inside candy tins with vent. No nerve for generic charger. I do regularly check voltage off charger as a routine. Having installed the driver, I am aware per tests of the cut off voltage. Panasonics bought from different vendors have different low cutoff I think fastech was three point zero one was 2.5 volt as I recall. I recall safe but in low end of safe?-- another peck a post via cell

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Degarb,

I don't recommend the original Pila. I do recommend the Pila IBC however it is older technology. If mine ever breaks I will look for a newer replacement. Until then I use my Pila IBC regularly without problems.

Tom