Ugh. electric bill. LED flashlight that'll light a room?

[James S]

but even a buck a shower doesn't cut it to explain this.

Tell us more about this electric ceiling heat. i've seen radiant panels that you can mount on the ceiling which are actually very efficient, they dont heat the air much at all just radiate and keep YOU warm while you're under or in front of them. And so they dont use a lot of energy and are quite efficient.

But it sounds like you've got something else? I always think of electric heat as baseboard heaters like I had 10 years ago in a crappy little apartment in Chicago. It was so cold there one winter that frost formed on the INSIDE doorknob just from conducted heat out through the outside doorknob. I literally had hoarfrost on the inside of my apartment. I ran the electric heat that winter constantly though only up to about 65 and my electric bill was only $120 or so. Even figuring in 10 years of inflation that doesn't become $350.

Or they could just be dumping the bulk of their heat up through the attic and outside?

If the mixing tube in the hot water heater is rotted out then you'll end up running both elements even for just a small amount of hot water use, that can add up. Normally if you use only a little hot water only 1 of the 2 elements in a common electric water heater will come on, but if you use a lot both come on. And if the cold water doesn't get sent to the bottom of the tank properly with the mixing tube then they will both always come on.

Could something be leaking just enough hot water to keep your hot water heater running constantly?

 

[ja10]

It sounds like you need to turn your house upside down. Heated floors? Decent idea. Heated Ceilings? Not so much.

One thing that would save some money is a $30 programmable thermostat. They are easy to install, and it will let you turn your heat way down during the hours that you aren't at home. You could also just manually turn it off, but it is easy to forget.

Also, if your heat does come from your ceiling, you might save a bit my installing a ceiling fan. I don't know how much electricity those use, but it has to be less than waiting for your heater to push enough hot air down to trip the thermostat.

I would definitely check your meter though. Check it while everything is running, then start throwing the breakers. If it doesn't slow down much, something might be leaking very badly.

 

[Minjin]

Off-forum, certainly, but the subject is interesting. The thread will probably be moved to the "Cafe" soon.

However, some input from a person who has fiddled around with many ways of saving electricity. Yes, I have a "Kill-A-Watt" from www.cyberguys.com. A simple summary: In any month that the central AC (18500BTU) does not run in my 1040 sq ft house with 3 bedrooms, my summer bill is about 150KWH/month and winter climbs to maybe 200KWH/month. My electricity costs about 8.5 cents/KWH. My girls were trained as they grew up. My wife is about half trained and stopped. However, I am still trying...

So what have I done or still do? The house has only CFL - Compact FLuorescent - lighting, outside or inside. Yes, the outside lights turn on slowly when it is below zero F, but so what. Just turn them on a bit sooner, or have a Fenix P3D Q5 available for the animal incursions in the yard... The temperature in the house during the heating season when we are up/awake is set to 63/64 degrees. Temp in the house in the heating season when we are not at home is set as low as the thermostat will go, somewhere around 57 deg F. No, I will NOT use a programmable thermostat. I don't want the heat turning on and coming up to temp when we are not home - wasted heat. The water heater is set to 120 deg F. I attempt to keep the lights off when no one is in the room - almost a lost cause, but I still am reasonably successful. The only "decorative" lighting are the Christmas lights. The single 18.5cu ft top freezer refrigerator consumes less than 100KWH a month, and I clean the coils about once a month or two, and set the temps a bit higher than recommended. ie: the "freezer" runs at about 10deg, not zero deg F. The fridge runs at about 40 deg F, not lower. For myself I use a couple LED flashlights when I am on the computer and not reading some printed matter on the desk. Otherwise I have a 13watt CFL on a swing-arm desk lamp. For example, right now while typing this I have 3 LED flashlights well placed on my desk and operating at a combined lumens of about 200 lumens. When I get up in the morning I leave the temp at 60 deg F and do not normally turn on any house lights. I get ready for work using one of my flashlights with an output ranging in the order of about 100-150 lumens. Am I crazy? Certifiably so! however my electric bill is low!

That makes me wonder where all my power is going. I average about 10kwh per day so its typically around 300kwh for the month. Its definitely not lighting. As often as I am on the computer, that isn't causing all of it. I'm sitting here staring at the Killawatt that my UPS is plugged into and its hovering at about 195w. And thats with a widescreen 22, standard 19, modern computer, cable modem, and router. Whats left? It can't be the oil pump or water circulator pump because my useage doesn't really change in the winter time. I have gas hot water and gas range/oven. That mainly leaves fridge, washer, and dryer. The fridge is 20 years old and the compressor makes loud noises when it spins down. You think thats probably a bulk of it? How about the dryer or washer? Is there much efficiency to gain there?

 

[lukevsdarth]

Make a gadget like i did a P4 Cree mounted to a 2AA holder with a dual clicky switch direct driven and 30.1 ohm resistor simple solder and heat glue with a piece of foil under the star. Looks crazy but i take it everywhere with me. I have yet to change the batteries run it about 4 hours a night for 6 nights. I added a magnet to the back put on the treadmill or on a cabinet hinge. Pretty easy

Hey I recommend like everyone else suggested turn your main breaker off and if your meter is still running you got a problem. Can you heat your house with propane? On my addition to my house Im gonna run a copper line from outside to a gasheater im going to put. I sympothize with you i only pay from 87-96 bucks. I run a light outside all night and have lamps on timers also programable thermostat. I got CFL's everywhere too. :thumbsup:

GOOD LUCK, FRED

 

[asdalton]

I definitely agree with everyone who says that you should focus on heat rather than light sources.

Consider the total amount of electricity that you used last month. At my rate of $0.114/kwh, a bill of $343 would require me to use 3009 kWh in one month. That's about 100 kWh per day, or an average power consumption of 4200 W.

Notice that this is an average. You might think that a 100-watt bulb would account for 1/42 of this consumption, but that's true only if you're running it all day and night for the entire month. More likely, it would be three 100-watt bulbs for 8 hours per day. And if you use CFLs, then you could make that 12 bulbs for the same power. This would be < 3% of your total bill.

Three full-sized electric space heaters would use 4500 watts. But to consume that power on average, they would have to be running at full blast, constantly, with no shutting off from the thermostat, etc.

For comparison:

My apartment has gas for heating, hot water, and cooking. My gas consumption for the past month (Nov. in northern California) was 16 therms, or about 469 kWh (thermal). This is about 16 kWh/day, or about 1/6 what you use in electricity. A colder climate could easily require double this value, but then I'd still be at only one third of what you use. And I didn't even account for the flue heat loss that gas heating has and electric heating doesn't.

 

[Art Vandelay]

With that setup would a reversible ceiling fan save more energy than it uses? Just don't let a dyslexic architect install the fan on the floor.

 

[moldyoldy]

minjin, I believe that several very good suggestions have been made, and you have received the necessary calculations justifying those suggestions. Focus on the heat and skip the lighting for now.

1. Using the normal controls and switches or thermostats, turn off all of the lighting in the house, heating, etc in the house, but do not turn off any breakers. What is the electric meter doing? Use the breakers to track down any errant circuits.

2. Given that I agree with the analysis that focuses on the electric heating in the ceiling as being the primary loss of heat, purchase a roll-around electric heater that plugs in to the wall, one of the oil-filled units. Although the Americans are enamoured with the hot-air heaters that provide some radiance heat, the Germans/Austrians/Swiss prefer the oil-filled radiator-type heaters for supplemental heat. They look just like a narrower version of the standard steam heat radiators in older houses. Use those units and leave the celing heat OFF, like even turn off the breakers for the ceiling heat just in case.

Let us know the results!

 

[KDOG3]

Yeah I have one of those roll around radiator style heaters. It has 3 settings 600W/900W or both for 1500W.

 

[Fallingwater]

While we're on the topic, anyone know how much power the LED nightlights use? I assume they vary from brand to brand. I have them all over the house, mainly because they are cool, and I was hoping they weren't using much power.

They are night-lights, so very dim, and they are LED, so very efficient. Based on this, I'd say power consumption could be fairly described as "three fifths of bugger all".

As for the original topic: worrying about flashlights and rechargeables is not worth it. You'd spend more in gear than you'd save up in a LONG time.

 

[Tubor]

what the hell is a CFL ?

Isn't one of those low-energy 8-12 year light bulbs? Uses 20W and gives out as much light as an old 100W light bulb, have really helped lowering my electricity bills recently (but they keep putting up prices so I can't see how I can end up saving - unless I get shares in the power company).

What about a sealed car battery running 10 SSC-P4's @ 500mA, attached to a solar powered charger? About $90 I think - not sure how many hours of electricity @ 20W that is (before you start saving).

 

[VidPro]

use a Headlamp, charge it up at work , great idea, then put it on, and go outside and see how fast the wheel on the electric meter is going.
then turn on and off things in the house, use headlamp charged at work to see what makes it spin like a 45rpm record or do we say spin like a CD now.

i always laugh to see how much you guys spend for electricity 5c geesh, send me some of that over the net, that is like free.

 

[Sgt. LED]

Yeah I have one of those roll around radiator style heaters. It has 3 settings 600W/900W or both for 1500W.

I had an apartment once where one of those was my only heat source! I used to drag it around to whatever room I was in It sucked to have to do it and life is much better now, but it worked and kept me through the winter.

 

[leukos]

My first suggestion for you is to move. $343 extra a month on top of your rent/mortgage could certainly get you a place that is more energy efficient.

However if you plan to stay, and since your heat is in the ceiling, I'll agree with Art that you might consider installing ceiling fans to push the hot air from the ceiling down to the floor (just make sure that the fan is spinning the right direction, usually counterclockwise). This should help lower your electric bill since it will get the warm air down to where your thermostat is located and you will feel warmer as well!

 

[orbital]

+
You want to stay warm.....power some lights or charge your flashlight batteries.

http://www.econvergence.net/electro.htm

 

[Sgt. LED]

Pedaling alone will help him keep warm! I guess charging up a UPS with it every day would be a good way to save the money. Crap now I want one...............

 

[eidolen]

Well I don't know about lighting the house by flashlights on a regular basis but I found what seems to be a good general lighting solution I'm going to use the next time power is out.

I was just futzing around the other day and realized that my Fenix diffuser fits almost perfectly on a C size Mag LED host. It works great on the Fenix light of course but using a Mag host can give oodles of runtime depending on the number of cells you use. I just now tried it on a D size host and though the fit isn't as nice it would work fine.

Standard candle mode on most lights are ok in an emergency but can really hurt your eyes if you happen to look at or near them. A diffuser is a great way to go as it doesn't hurt your eyes and actually lights up a room measurably better than a bare emitter.

Here are some pictures showing the difference. It's hard to see just how much better the light from the diffuser is, but night and day would be a fair analogy.

Hope this helps,
Eidolen

 

[Germ]

house is only about 600 sq.ft.

600 sq.ft. and $343 for electric? That sounds crazy. When was the house built?

That ceiling heating system does sound inefficient. Seems like you would need a ceiling fan or something to circulate the air. If you want to get an electric space heater I can recommend the Vornado Vortex heater:

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?order_num=-1&SKU=10607485

They aren't cheap ($80 for the cheapest model), but they put out a deceptive amount of heat. Mine feels more like a fan as it blows a lot of air. I'll have the thing on and not feel like it is doing anything and soon start to realize that the room is too warm.

If your windows are not double-paned and letting a lot of heat out you can use something like the 3M Window Insulating Kit. I've never installed it, but had it installed on a window in a place I moved into once. It is a sheet of plastic double stick taped to the inside of the window frame and then you take the wrinkles out with a hairdryer. When done you should have a 1 inch or more insulating pocket of air between the plastic sheet and the window. I didn't see the stuff online at Home Depot or Lowes, but it looks like Ace Hardware sells it:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/...window&parentPage=search&searchId=21255113873

Ace sells their own version too, but someone giving a review said the 3M tape sticks better. It looks like 3M makes an outdoor version too.

Home Depot sells a Window Energy Film that goes directly on the glass. It probably looks better than the Insulating Kit, but looks more expensive and I doubt it insulates as well.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100588592

Be sure to let us know if you make any progress or find out where all the electricity is going.

 

[nmanchin]

No, I will NOT use a programmable thermostat. I don't want the heat turning on and coming up to temp when we are not home - wasted heat.

FYI, most programmable thermostats have a vacation mode that when activated automatically goes to the lowest programmed temp in the winter and the warmest in the summer...

 

[SEMIJim]

600 sq.ft. and $343 for electric? That sounds crazy. When was the house built?

Indeed. That is a horrendously high tab for a 600 sq. ft. place.

That ceiling heating system does sound inefficient. Seems like you would need a ceiling fan or something to circulate the air.

This is about the 3rd time I've seen this suggested. It would be cheaper and easier to experiment with a floor-standing fan. I suspect it isn't going to help much--if at all. As I noted earlier: Ceiling electric heat is not designed or intended to heat the space, but to warm the things in the space, using radiant energy. This is why you're only supposed to turn it on for rooms that are occupied.


Jim

 

[abvidledUK]

Can't find my originals, but a plastic cup on top of torch, or ping pong ball, or torch placed face down on CD/DVD make great area lights too.