Update: AAA intermittant operation

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I just got my two ARC AAA's today, look and work great. I really like the "new" look. As soon as I opened the FedEx envelope, I ran each through 50 on-off cycles, each performed 100%. Another satisfied customer!

-Keith
 
Bummer about the 8mm /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
It sure would of been a cool light, my 5mm standard version works well though. Need to get off my butt and order some AAA's, good to hear Peter is on the case as usual.
 
Paulr,

Great idea about looking at the DC supply with a scope. But, I returned the defective unit last month, so can't collect any further data.

Jim
 
I just received my AAA premium yesterday and was actually quite disappointed. It has the blueish beam color I have ever seen on a 5mm LED. It also had the 'failed to turn on' problem a couple of times (once for sure with the enclosed Duracell).

I just tested it a few seconds ago. First try succeeded. I opened it up to make sure the Duracell was in there. Then it failed to turn on. Multiple loosen/tighten cycles all failed. Fully removed the head to make sure there was no thread stripping (didn't touch anything, just looked). Put it back together again and it worked fine.

This was my first ARC and will have to be returned. I don't know if such a blue beam on a Premium is grounds for exchange (not sure if that is considered cosmetic, and thus not exchangeable). So I guess it will have to be a return for refund...

This thing makes my Infinity Ultra look great (beam color, not body size).

Bottom line: The head (in my case) had to be fully removed to generate the failed case, not just tighten/loosen. This makes testing more of a pain, but might give better results.

Erik.
 
Erik,
Hey a fellow from Santa Cruz... Howdy Neighbor.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Obviously since PG posted this thread, he is aware that there is a problem, and is working on it. If he has to change the electronics, he will have to swap the head anyway, since it is potted in epoxy. A return for the "fail to turn on" is totally valid regardless of the led blue issue. Just return it, and let him know yours is misbehaving. When he gets the circuit thing worked out, you will get a great little light. I agree your experience sounds like a frustrating one, but don't let that kill you on the Arc lights. Once Peter works out this bug, the ArcAAA will return to it's rightful place as king of the keychain lights... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Over the holiday I bought 3 lights, AAA-S, AAA-P, and AA, from Arc. All 3 had the intermittent problem. Finally returned them and received replacements a couple of days ago. did the 50 twist test on each and all worked fine.

A bit later, the AAA-S would not turn on, and twisting the head several times did no good. I was using an outdated battery for testing, so removed it and replaced it with the Duracel battery. Worked fine for a few trials, then would not turn on again with several twists. Unscrewed the head enough so the battery was loose and shook the light a few times. Started working again for a while then no go again. Repeated the shaking and it started working again. Since yesterday it seems to be working fine. So might have been a bit of the foam on the head that was preventing good contact which was knocked loose by the shaking. Was curious whether anyone else had this experience of the light not coming on with repeated twists of the head.
 
This is my first post to the forums, but I have lurked for a while (I know I am bold).
How fortunate it is for me that I found this particular thread. Almost exactly the same thing happened to me as happened to Erik. I ordered the AAA Premium two weeks ago from toolshop and received it yesterday. I only ordered it because I lost my CMG Infinity Ultra (my very first light) in the back of a taxi (fell out of my pocket I think. I was on crutches at the time), and everyone here loved the Arc so much.
I must say, I was delighted with the Arc at first sight. It exudes the love that was so clearly put into its design and creation. However, I am slightly disappointed with the colour and output of the L.E.D. It is such a shame that I don't have the CMG anymore to make a direct comparison, but from what I remember, the CMG's LED was much whiter, and much brighter. I am also having the intermittent function problem, which I find only a mild annoyance.
I should probably say that I have no idea which version of the AAA I have got, but it is not the newest one with the ARC-P lettering. It has L.E.D. "AAA"- Arc Flashlight, LLC written circumferentially at the top, below the LED housing, and PREMIUM written in the same fashion at the bottom above the lug.
The beam is definetely blue in colour, with the bluest portion being in the center, and yellower on the outside, with fairly white sidespill.
I love everything else about this light, especially the company behind it. I think I will be sending it back because of the intermittent function problem, and fingers crossed, I will receive a new light with a nicer LED.
Can anyone tell me how I go about returning this light (I live in Ireland)?
 
Guriseto,

Your beam pattern sound like mine. Blue center, then a yellow/green ring, then another blue ring. My Infinity has a slightly blueish center which smoothly fades into a slight yellowish green. I have the new version (as I understand it) with ARC-P printed below the head. My photon 3 is similar to my Ultra. My Eternalight X-Ray Elite is blueish but no where near the Arc AAA-P. My Photon Fusion looks quite decent because of the mixture of 6 LEDs.

I sure hope that Arc can work this out, because I love the form factor of the AAA-P. It is so light weight compared to the Infinity.

Erik.
 
The tint/geometry and output of the 5mm LED is what it is. We use some of the best 5mm LEDs available. We are the only company that openly states which rank/tint we use in our products. There is variation from part to part of course (about 200-1000%) and this is probably what you are seeing. Another factor is the larger reflectors of the AA size tend to blend the beam more and produce a nicer tint. This is demostrated on our Arc-AA for example. Even though the LED is the same for both the AA and AAA, the AA typically looks better tint wise because of the blending. However, there is a trade off in size of course.

Being open about problems with our product is fine. But for strange reason, I find that when I am honest with people about something, some people start blaming other things (some quite odd) on the first admission. I think this is why some manufacturers don't like to admit faults is because people will see mirages. I heard it once said, "if you screw up, act like you meant to do that and people will quickly forget the mistake".

However, I prefer to be honest and let you know what is happening. But too much worrying and wringing of hands will make you unhappy with even our level of quality.

And that is me being open with you again... But even the openess about the openess can cause worry and wringing of hands. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Peter
 
Hmm. My post may be a little direct for some. I don't want to seem like I don't care or that you should accept crap.

Basically... Yes, the LEDs are not perfect. But by golly, I ask for and get half-bin precision from Nichia (SB1/SB2) I just don't know anyone else who is doing that.

Someone will always say, "I have a particular photon that is better than my AAA, therefore, all AAA's are crap". Ok. Fine. But if you want a scientific answer, take 100 units of both, use a kelvin meter and then tell me our product is crap.

Sorry to get all defensive and I don't mean to attack anyone. I didn't even respond specifically to the posts in this thread. I am just spouting off about comments I have heard made over the past couple of years. I probably should just deleted these posts since they don't respond specifically to this thread.

Bottom line is that LEDs vary. We tend to isolate our customers from this somewhat by being picky about we use, but the real world with LEDs is a story about the "good, bad and the ugly". This drives the LED flashlight manufacturers absolutely nuts.

Peter
 
Peter, for people obsessed with LED tint, maybe you can consider making some lights with those Toyoda Gosei (?) leds with the UV die and RGB phosphor. They're possibly not quite as bright as the Nichias but they have extremely neutral color. Typical buyers would probably favor the Nichias for the extra brightness, so this would be an alternate choice, like the turquoise or UV or whatever versions. It would be great for a CPF special edition, since most CPF'ers would have Nichia-based units already, and this led would make the light a little more "special" than just the usual different finish color and logo.

Any news about the intermittent operation bug?
 
Peter, I really feel for ya amigo. Putting yourself out there and listening to what a bunch of obsessive compulsive neurotics crave in a flashlight, then listening to em ***** when everything isn't perfect (I've been whining about the arc4 reflector). I think you must be at least mildly masochistic to have chosen cpf'ers as a target audience. I sure hope you're lovin what yer doin cuz I know I just couldn't deal with the coaster ride you must be on.

Thanks though, it is so FREAKING cool to be able to talk to a guy who can manufacture stuff that I like and who WANTS to know what I like and what I don't like about the stuff he manufactures. Thanks again and I want......
 
I hate to be a 'me, too' and add feature requests to what is clearly not a feature request thread, but I have to put in my two cents. I really like what I'm seeing about the Toyoda Goesi RGB phosphor white LEDs. Brightness isn't #1 for me. I'd much prefer to see slightly dimmer, better beam, and much better color rendition.

Back on topic, one thing that came to mind which may cause a problem like you're seeing and *not* be inside the locus of possibilities that you're investigating is: did your body/head supplier change sources of metal? Personally, I would suspect the body tube more than the head piece for that type of failure. Maybe the tail contact has problems?
 
The potential magnitude of Arc's warranty liability really worries me to death. I suspect that the financial drain of this problem may be a significant contributor to the delay of the development of other products. I hope Peter (and Arc) can ride this problem out.

CM
 
[ QUOTE ]
brickbat said:
Also, I applaud Peter's decision to concentrate on this problem in lieu of making it brighter, using an 8mm LED, etc. This product is perfect as is - except that it doesn't always turn on. And that is the most important feature that this product needs.

[/ QUOTE ]

100% ditto! It's hard to show people this neat little light (and admit how much it sells for) if I can't know it will turn on EVERY time I twist the head.

I've had this problem with two different AAAs, both of them were factory seconds so I was not too concerened... they work excellent considering what I paid for them /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If I had bought them new, I'd have sent them back.

On a bad note -- I've noticed that my Arc AA displays this same problem sometimes... twist to turn on and nothing happens... twist to off, and then twist to on again and it usually fires up.

Very annoying, especially when I spent $40 for a product that is supposed to perform flawlessly. I think I'll wait till Arc looks into the issue to tells us what the scoop is before I send back my AA.
 
have you tried locating old stock of your chip?
folks like area51 have helped me in such a situation.

[ QUOTE ]
Gransee said:
Merri and I just got back in Phoenix from the SS tonight. I am catching up with the CPF threads and notice that there still intermittant problems with the AAA. I am going to inquire on this tomorrow starting with a review of warranty returns then onto indepth testing of products on the shelf and finally on to a fix. I was talking to Henry about this last night and we both agree that we will probably have to use a different chip in the AAA. The manufacturer of the DC/DC chip changed where it was manufactured and something has changed with how the chip works. It appears to be in spec but no longer works reliably in our circuit. When we originally detected this we tested the light and found it sometimes would not turn on. We added another capacitor to the circuit and this fixed all the test units. But we are still getting complaints and I don't think these are old stock. Our current test consists of 50 turn on/off cycles with the light being placed in the freezer and then in hot water to stress the circuit. The test I am going to run tomorrow will consist of 20 production units hot/cold and 50 cycles. If they all pass 50 cycles, we will increase it to 100 cycles (we use gloves to keep our fingerprints attached). I expect to find a problem and it will probably be with the chip. I have asked Henry to prepare to put our other engineering projects on hold and redesign the circuit in the AAA/AA with another chip. The head will likely need to be changed as well to make room for the larger chip. If there is a problem with the current design, I will freeze or cancel all orders for it and sell the stock as "seconds". We will either refund or replace previous models that exhibit this defect.

I will keep you posted.

Peter

[/ QUOTE ]
 
I agree with brickbrat too. Reliability is everything. I just got my second AA with the not turning on problem. It is going back on Monday. Maybe the third time will be the charm. Otherwise I's rather wait untill the problem is fixed.
 
How does the Arc AA differ in size and design from the CMG Ultra?

I have the impression that they are very similar. I have 4 Ultras and like them. I have had no problem with them, and except that they are larger than the AAA lights, the Ultra would be my favorite small EDC.

The CMG Sonic also has some problems, but I don't think it is the same problem as the Arc. Some of the Sonics I have gotten will not turn on at all. Of course CMG replaces them promptly, including sending a postage paid envelope.

Considering the posts regarding reliability of the small AAA and AA lights, I have to conclude that the Ultra is the most reliable.

Like everyone else, I hope Peter is able to correct the problem and ride it out. The products he makes fill a real need.

Jerry
 
Jerry, the Arc is a little smaller and lighter, has nicer styling, has a more efficient DC-DC converter, and has the tail-standing feature, so it's overall a nicer light than the CMG. But basically the functions overlap a lot, so whether it's worth paying over 2x as much for is a matter of what your wallet can stand. I have several CMG's and will probably get an Arc AA sooner or later, but haven't felt an urgent need for one yet.
 
Paul,
Thanks. The beauty of the Arc AAA is that it is a beautiful style, and small enough to carry on a key chain or pocket without noticing it.

I have 6 of the AAA. I doubt that I will get the AA since I am so pleased with the Ultra. If I were to see the Arc AA I might change my mind. However, I can only use and give away so many lights, and although they are very useful, all those single cell lights are dim. They cannot substitute for 2 or 3 cell incand.

Jerry
 
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