upgrading a surfire g3

[davester00]

I am aware that one could purchase a higher output lamp for the g3. p91 would put this flashlight up to 200 lumens.
What I'm after is keeping the stock 100 lumen output but extending the battery life as it is only 1hr w/an incandescent bulb. Anyone know if I could get a drop-in LED for this unit? Or am I totally lost? Please post links to where I could purchase.
Thanks.

 

[Kestrel]

I just have a sec, here's a current thread running with some good SF G3 info:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=3091409#post3091409
Good luck,
K

 

[leukos]

If you want to stick with an incandescent, this lamp module will slightly outperform the P90 and give you a runtime of about 80 minutes: http://www.lighthound.com/Lumens-Fa...ssembly-for-SureFire-C-P-Z-Series_p_1013.html

There is also a three level switch (30%, 60%, and 100%) that could give you over three hours runtime with that lamp: http://www.lighthound.com/AW-Softst...P--C--M-series-Tailcaps-version-B_p_2923.html

LED modules with multiple levels will do the same with longer runtimes.

 

[NotRegulated]

The very best solution is to get an LED drop in. The Nitrolon really doesn't conduct the heat away from the module like aluminum bodied flashlights do. In the Nitrolon body of the G3 you need to find an LED drop in that is heatsinked well or that reduces it's output to manage the heat. This is actually not a problem because several nice units are available.

The Malkoff Devices M60L is rated at 140 lumens for 6 hours max output on 3 123's and the M60LL is rated at 80 lumens max output for 13 hours on 3 123's. Both have a good combo of flood and throw. If you like more flood he has the M60LF model (designated with the "F"). To complicate things further, you can also opt for "warm" versions also which give the beam a more incandescent quality.

The Surefire P60L is not heatsinked per se but it regulates its output to manage the heat. It is rated at 80 lumens and runtime tests show it will run for around almost 6 hours on 3 123's. The Surefire dropin is a lighter weight unit with a very nice smooth beam quality and fits in an SC1 spares battery carrier.

I think the very best solution for your G3 and maintaining the 100+ lumens you want would be the Malkoff M60L or M60LF.

The M60L or M60LF will run on one set of batteries (3 123's) for 6 hours. You would go through six sets of batteries (18 123's) with your stock P90 incandescent bulb to get that same 6 hours of runtime. 10 battery changes with your current stock P90 incandescent bulb would cost nearly the same as buying the Malkoff unit. If you like the G3 an plan to use it quite regularly then the LED upgrade will be very cost effective. Rudimentary breakeven analysis is around 30 Surefire 123's @ $1.75 each. If you are using it for hours on end every night then you will want to look into rechargeable options such as two 17500 li-on's and a charger.

 

[davester00]

Thanks for the info guys this is very helpful.
What is the diffrence between a Malkoff regular and flood?
The "regular' version seems to be out of stock. also are Malkoff's known to take abuse this light may be mounted on a weapon.

 

[jp2515]

Thanks for the info guys this is very helpful.
What is the diffrence between a Malkoff regular and flood?
The "regular' version seems to be out of stock. also are Malkoff's known to take abuse this light may be mounted on a weapon.

The regular M60 is more oriented towards throw (such as lighting up something far away) while the flood version has a 20 degree optic that spreads out the beam over a larger area (kind of like a built in diffuser)

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

If you want to stick with an incandescent, this lamp module will slightly outperform the P90 and give you a runtime of about 80 minutes: http://www.lighthound.com/Lumens-Fa...ssembly-for-SureFire-C-P-Z-Series_p_1013.html

There is also a three level switch (30%, 60%, and 100%) that could give you over three hours runtime with that lamp: http://www.lighthound.com/AW-Softst...P--C--M-series-Tailcaps-version-B_p_2923.html

LED modules with multiple levels will do the same with longer runtimes.

+1

Great options!

 

[angelofwar]

Thanks for the info guys this is very helpful.
What is the diffrence between a Malkoff regular and flood?
The "regular' version seems to be out of stock. also are Malkoff's known to take abuse this light may be mounted on a weapon.

Don't forget to acquire an aluminum bezel for your G3...they can be had for around ~$18 on the MP. Even with a good heatsink built into the LED module, the aluminum bezel helps to dissipate the heat away from the light. One guy did post that his malkoff "fell apart", but I believe it was in a shot-gun. You should be fine using it in a lower recoil weapon like a small cailber AR. The M60F would be best for "Room Clearing", and is also a great EDC module.

 

[ampdude]

If you want to stick with an incandescent, this lamp module will slightly outperform the P90 and give you a runtime of about 80 minutes: http://www.lighthound.com/Lumens-Fa...ssembly-for-SureFire-C-P-Z-Series_p_1013.html

Has this been documented? I've never compared those two side by side, but I seem to remember the P90 outperforming the ES-9.

There can be quite a bit of output and color temperature variation lamp to lamp as well.

 

[bigchelis]

Has this been documented? I've never compared those two side by side, but I seem to remember the P90 outperforming the ES-9.

There can be quite a bit of output and color temperature variation lamp to lamp as well.

They are about the same, but the P91 really:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs


Lumens Factor ES-9 Lamp___127__turn on peak______2X18650 L I__________Solarforce L2 18650 Host + 1 ext, AR coated glass in Bezel,
Lumens Factor ES-9 Lamp___122__60sec.___________2X18650 L I__________Solarforce L2 18650 Host + 1 ext, AR coated glass in Bezel,
Lumens Factor ES-9 Lamp___120__120sec.__________2X18650 L I__________Solarforce L2 18650 Host + 1 ext, AR coated glass in Bezel,


vs.

SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__142.0_____1 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__138.2____20 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__137.1____30 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__130.6____60 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__118.3___120 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__112.4___180 sec

 

[bigchelis]

I am aware that one could purchase a higher output lamp for the g3. p91 would put this flashlight up to 200 lumens.
What I'm after is keeping the stock 100 lumen output but extending the battery life as it is only 1hr w/an incandescent bulb. Anyone know if I could get a drop-in LED for this unit? Or am I totally lost? Please post links to where I could purchase.
Thanks.

My vote goes to the P91 with 2 AW 17500 cells the numbers are awesome, but mine was tested with 2 IMR 18650 cells by MrGman and here is what it did:

SureFire P91_____________UCL in SureFire 6P_____2XAW17670,_466.0_____1 sec______,
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__473.4_____1 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__445.3____10 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__411.2____30 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__396.4____60 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__381.7___120 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__383.1___180 sec

I dont know if 2 17500 AW cells can handle the 2.6~2.7A of current the P91 will net, but if you are using primaries my G3/P91/Primaries would last about 18 minutes or so. Definitely I would get rechargeables, but maybe someone can confirm the current ratings on those 17500 cell from AW.

 

[ampdude]

They are about the same, but the P91 really:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs


Lumens Factor ES-9 Lamp___127__turn on peak______2X18650 L I__________Solarforce L2 18650 Host + 1 ext, AR coated glass in Bezel,
Lumens Factor ES-9 Lamp___122__60sec.___________2X18650 L I__________Solarforce L2 18650 Host + 1 ext, AR coated glass in Bezel,
Lumens Factor ES-9 Lamp___120__120sec.__________2X18650 L I__________Solarforce L2 18650 Host + 1 ext, AR coated glass in Bezel,


vs.

SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__142.0_____1 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__138.2____20 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__137.1____30 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__130.6____60 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__118.3___120 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__112.4___180 sec

The reliability of the Surefire P90 is first rate in my book. If they were both run on lithium ion, (like I run mine) my guess is that that P90 would have about a 10-20 lumen average advantage over the ES-9, though the P90 runtime would be a little shorter. Both great lamps in my book. And the ES-9 might offer a little more throw.

 

[leukos]

The 10-20 lumen advantage of the P90 is only academic, in my opinion. The P90 is a more reliable lamp, but that is where the comparison ends for me. The ES-9 is whiter, has a better hotspot, and uses less current (.7A vs. 1.2A). The difference in lumens is not noticable to my eyes, and as an optical illusion because of the difference in color and beam characteristics, the ES-9 usually seems brighter outdoors.

 

[RobertM]

My vote goes to the P91 with 2 AW 17500 cells the numbers are awesome, but mine was tested with 2 IMR 18650 cells by MrGman and here is what it did:

SureFire P91_____________UCL in SureFire 6P_____2XAW17670,_466.0_____1 sec______,
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__473.4_____1 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__445.3____10 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__411.2____30 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__396.4____60 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__381.7___120 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__383.1___180 sec

I dont know if 2 17500 AW cells can handle the 2.6~2.7A of current the P91 will net, but if you are using primaries my G3/P91/Primaries would last about 18 minutes or so. Definitely I would get rechargeables, but maybe someone can confirm the current ratings on those 17500 cell from AW.

I would recommend against running the P91 on 2x 17500 cells. The P91 on Li-ion pulls too much current for 17500 cells. 2C is the reasonable limit which puts it at ~2.2A MAX, not 2.7A.

-Robert

 

[angelofwar]

Thanks for the info guys this is very helpful.
What is the diffrence between a Malkoff regular and flood?
The "regular' version seems to be out of stock. also are Malkoff's known to take abuse this light may be mounted on a weapon.

If you plan to use it on a weapon, that takes away all incandescent options, unless you get a shock-isolated bezel...Z32 I believe??? Incans in a regular bezel won't hold up to the recoil...

 

[davester00]

Where can I get an aluminum bezel for the G3? ~18$ on MP? where is MP? what else would I need to make this a reliable weapon light on a .223 AR15? Anything to isolate shock?

Don't forget to acquire an aluminum bezel for your G3...they can be had for around ~$18 on the MP. Even with a good heatsink built into the LED module, the aluminum bezel helps to dissipate the heat away from the light. One guy did post that his malkoff "fell apart", but I believe it was in a shot-gun. You should be fine using it in a lower recoil weapon like a small cailber AR. The M60F would be best for "Room Clearing", and is also a great EDC module.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

My vote goes to the P91 with 2 AW 17500 cells the numbers are awesome, but mine was tested with 2 IMR 18650 cells by MrGman and here is what it did:

SureFire P91_____________UCL in SureFire 6P_____2XAW17670,_466.0_____1 sec______,
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__473.4_____1 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__445.3____10 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__411.2____30 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__396.4____60 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__381.7___120 sec
SureFire P91_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__383.1___180 sec

I dont know if 2 17500 AW cells can handle the 2.6~2.7A of current the P91 will net, but if you are using primaries my G3/P91/Primaries would last about 18 minutes or so. Definitely I would get rechargeables, but maybe someone can confirm the current ratings on those 17500 cell from AW.

That's suicide! The 17500 can't handle the P91. 2X18500 is the minimum needed...

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

They are about the same, but the P91 really:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs


Lumens Factor ES-9 Lamp___127__turn on peak______2X18650 L I__________Solarforce L2 18650 Host + 1 ext, AR coated glass in Bezel,
Lumens Factor ES-9 Lamp___122__60sec.___________2X18650 L I__________Solarforce L2 18650 Host + 1 ext, AR coated glass in Bezel,
Lumens Factor ES-9 Lamp___120__120sec.__________2X18650 L I__________Solarforce L2 18650 Host + 1 ext, AR coated glass in Bezel,


vs.

SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__142.0_____1 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__138.2____20 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__137.1____30 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__130.6____60 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__118.3___120 sec
SureFire P90_____________Solarforce w/AR Glass__2XIMR18650__112.4___180 sec

The ES-9 was tested on two regular Li-Ion cells (LiCo) VS the P90 on 2x18650 IMRs (LiMn). That's why it showed higher output... The ES-9 is brigther on IMRs.

 

[bigchelis]

I wasn't sure if the AW 17500 cells could take the P91 current and thought they couldn't.

I asked MrGman to test my P91 with 16340 IMR cells, 18650 IMR cells and AW 17670 cells.

Now for my personal use I only use my P91 in a Surefire 6P bored with 18650 extention and 2 IMR 18650 cells or 2 AW 2600mAh cells and that is it. The 2 16340 IMR cells last 5~8 minutes which I expected and I only used for a show and tell at a night hike with my local San Jose, CA group meeting.


:D

 

[angelofwar]

Where can I get an aluminum bezel for the G3? ~18$ on MP? where is MP? what else would I need to make this a reliable weapon light on a .223 AR15? Anything to isolate shock?

The "Market Place"...Select "MORE CPF FORUMS" on the top of the page, and it will pop up there. You'll have to register, and Paypal seems to be the preferred method. Lots of decent pirced lights, and you can save a bit on retail for the SF's. There's always bezels and tailcaps up for grabs...just make sure you get either a 6P or G2L/G3L Bezel. That should be it...SF's are some of the most reliable lights out there, so just mounting it on your rifle give you a reliable weapon light. You can always upgrade later (i.e. buy a tape switch for it with out having to buy a new light). SF's modularity is another thing the company has going for it. Try a vikings tactic light mount! Hope this helps, and let me know if yuo have any more questions.