VanIsleDSM's AMAZING Septa and other Drop Ins - a 'mini review' - photo heavy!

[powerup93]

run4jc,

Really awesome that you could provide this review....really! On a side note, could you test otf lumens on a 18650 IMR or aw 2600/2900? If a 26650 is supposed to holds its voltage a bit higher and longer, I wonder what the 18650 size cells will do. Though, it is already reference with gary123's quad.....but was it run with an IMR or ICR 18650? Could you try a 5.6A quad with 18650 and fettie?

 

[VanIsleDSM]

Thanks for all your time and effort Dan. Really enjoyed all the pictures.

Medium on the Septa will be roughly 900 Lumen OTF. Low will be around 150 Lumen.

I'm not sure which cell exactly, but I was told that the cell used in Gary's light was not an IMR. An IMR 18650 will actually hold it's voltage better than a 26650 cell. The 26650 cells are a different chemistry, somewhat inbetween the LiCo and standard IMRs. Max output is 10A for a 4000mAh 26650 cell, only slightly over the 2C discharge of a standard LiCo cell, while an IMR 18650 at 1600mAh has a 10C discharge rate of 16A. An IMR cell would have surely made a difference. As do many little things at these output levels, such as how the exposed optic has been handled over time, and how clean the electrical contacts/lens are. The drop-ins I send out are nearly in a clean room condition, which will make a notable difference in output.

With your average halogen car headlights at 50watt, 20lm/W means about 2000 Lumen, so you've got more than some headlights in your hand with the Septa! More like a 35W HID Headlight for output!

 

[stoli67]

Jesse/run4jc

Any idea on the run time of the septa
Or a quad for that matter on
1. Imr 18650
2. AW 18650
2. Imr 26650

I find it hard to keep the quad going for more than 10 min
on high due to heat (with a 6P host)

Perhaps ronac's new head will help when it arrived

 

[recDNA]

I'm very curious about the heat issue too. The Septum looks fantastic (in fact they all do) but how long before it overheats?

 

[stoli67]

I would think that you run it for the most part at 900 lumens then up to 2500+ of whatever the final number is for 5 min bursts.

 

[Darvis]

Run4jc... thanks for this great review, I had been waiting to see these numbers!!!

I have the fortune of owning one of Jese's 5.6 amp quads and 3 of his FETtie switches. I also have two of the very well made, well respected, Kerberos Quads, one 4.2 amp and one 5.6 amp.

There is a very, and I mean very noticable difference in how fast the heat tranfers away from Jesse's quad to the host on high. One has to see the incredible fit (and included Arctic silver paste) to appreciate what a rig these are and I think that makes a TON of difference in why his output stays at the levels they do.

They are the cutting edge in quadom in my opinion and one really does have to light one up in the woods at night to appreciate what they can do, even if it's just for a few minutes.

I run mine in an oveready C2 host with the FETtie, of course. It's my favorite stealth rig for the non-flashaholics that just are NOT expecting that much light to come out of such a small light.

:thumbsup:

From Left to right: Kerberos 4.2, Jesse's 5.6 Quad (feast your eyes on those optics!!), Kerberos 5.6, Malkoff M91

 

[run4jc]

I'm not sure which cell exactly, but I was told that the cell used in Gary's light was not an IMR.

Gary's lights were both running on AW cells - the C2 had an AW 2900mAh 18650 and the Leef host had 2 AW 18500s.

Jesse/run4jc

Any idea on the run time of the septa
Or a quad for that matter on
1. Imr 18650
2. AW 18650
2. Imr 26650

I find it hard to keep the quad going for more than 10 min
on high due to heat (with a 6P host)

Perhaps ronac's new head will help when it arrived

I'm very curious about the heat issue too. The Septum looks fantastic (in fact they all do) but how long before it overheats?

I don't know the answer to any of those questions, but I will offer this (which should have been included in the review - sorry!) I took the Septa out for my early dog walk SEVERAL times. Typically a light will see 10 minutes of intermittent use - sometimes more - during these walks. I measured the output of the 26650 cell before and every time it was 4.2V out the door and 3.8 on return. Heat was never an issue...oh, sure, it became warm, but not HOT. I hesitated to do my 1 hour torture test on this head because it didn't belong to me! But in real use, unless you plan on a very long "run it until the battery dies" session, the 'tight' construction of the head, coupled with the design, will ensure rapid heat dissipation. I said it in the review - it's like the head assembly is carved from one chunk of metal.

Run4jc... thanks for this great review, I had been waiting to see these numbers!!!

I have the fortune of owning one of Jese's 5.6 amp quads and 3 of his FETtie switches. I also have two of the very well made, well respected, Kerberos Quads, one 4.2 amp and one 5.6 amp.

There is a very, and I mean very noticable difference in how fast the heat tranfers away from Jesse's quad to the host on high. One has to see the incredible fit (and included Arctic silver paste) to appreciate what a rig these are and I think that makes a TON of difference in why his output stays at the levels they do.

They are the cutting edge in quadom in my opinion and one really does have to light one up in the woods at night to appreciate what they can do, even if it's just for a few minutes.

I run mine in an oveready C2 host with the FETtie, of course. It's my favorite stealth rig for the non-flashaholics that just are NOT expecting that much light to come out of such a small light.

:thumbsup:

From Left to right: Kerberos 4.2, Jesse's 5.6 Quad (feast your eyes on those optics!!), Kerberos 5.6, Malkoff M91

Thanks, Darvis! I agree - Kenji makes a really nice drop in, but there are notable differences in the behavior of the Kerberos quad and the VIDSM quad. This (not scientific - not 'analytical') observation is based upon the observance of the behavior of the two as seen in the chart. I'm no engineer or scientist, but even I can see that something is causing the Kerberos quad to drop in output, and the only thing I can think of is that it just can't handle the rush of current coming from the 'hybrid' IMR cell through Jesse's FETtie switch. This is in NO WAY a criticism of Kenji's DD quad - in fact, it confirms his warnings to use it only with non-IMR protected cells. But I have to say it - Jesse's is just more 'robustly constructed' for heat dissipation and it is able to handle the rush of current.

 

[Glenn7]

Nice review mate :thumbsup:

I know the Septa has more lumen's, but did you think/find the Septa would throw further than the copper R5 5.6amp Khatod quad - not just from sher power OTF but from beam shape?

 

[jcalvert]

Hi Dan,

I concur with everyone else's opinion that your review was excellent, especially for the layman. Your photos really do speak a thousand words, thus making it easy for us to compare. Jesse's head looks not only cosmetically appealing, but like it also performs technically in transferring heat away from the light engine.

If a rubber-coated body were available that complimented the Septa head, that would allow us to use the Septanator for longer periods on high, that would be great. How about crafting a body of that nature Jesse?

I too will be curious about the final cost for the Septa head and its anticipated public release date. Beautiful craftsmanship Jesse!

All the best for continued success,
John

 

[run4jc]

Great question - and I don't really have an answer. Throw measurements in the real world are somewhat subjective...having said that, it did appear to me that the Septa was throwing as far as the Khatod light. You hit the nail on the head - "sheer power"...

Folks, please forgive me if I wax sentimental for a moment. Jesse is a young man with the gift of creativity, and the talent and knowledge to turn that gift into real products. Last I heard, he is planning to use that gift to transition his career in the true entrepreneurial spirit. I hope we can support him, Mac, McGizmo, Data, datiLED, Milky, Photonfanatic, VestureofBlood, Kerberos and many, many others who feed our appetites for cool tools and toys. I know that I am preaching to the choir, but I just had to say it.

I mean, think about it! Who'd a thunk it even 2 years ago? A 2600 lumen, Mag Lite sized head from one of "our own"...

When you consider this, it makes all the numbers produced by Jesse's devices even more amazing - at least to me.

Speaking of Kerberos, I know we all have the people of Japan in our thoughts and prayers! Kenji, are you okay?

Nice review mate :thumbsup:

I know the Septa has more lumen's, but did you think/find the Septa would throw further than the copper R5 5.6amp Khatod quad - not just from sher power OTF but from beam shape?

 

[stoli67]

John,

I am not sure that you would want a rubber host as it would not conduct heat away (into your hand) and away from the light.

 

[jcalvert]

John,

I am not sure that you would want a rubber host as it would not conduct heat away (into your hand) and away from the light.

Hi Andrew,

What I really meant was something like a space-age type of polymer perhaps with cooling channels. Simply a material and design that would allow the heat to continue to transfer from the LEDs to the body of the light and out some type of openings or air channels while still allowing the user to hold onto the light for extended periods.

The following is not a great example because it's all metal, but do you know the the handles on a gas-fired stove that have those spiral wire handles that allow you to open the firebox doors without burning your hands. I'm just trying to start a think tank so that designers of super high output light engines like Jesse can continue to grow their ideas with hosts that can keep up.

All the best,
John

 

[LichtAn!]

Wouldn't the temperature at the LEDs be already too high if the host is too hot to hold? At least I would take that as a first warning to better let it cool down now.

 

[Glenn7]

I thought run4jc said the body didn't get that hot anyway with the Septa - also using the new FM copper headed host it should help even more with heat management.

 

[jcalvert]

Hi Guys,

In the present, I'm not concerned as much with the Septa head and its heat management capabilties, but more for the P60 size, high-output, triples & quads that get super hot on high after only a few minutes. Even though some of the issue can be resolved with multi-mode drivers that allow us to use the high mode intermittently, what about those occassional times where we may wish we could keep a P60-size high-output going for say just ten extra minutes in emergencies for example, but can't due to the heat of the host.

My thought was toward keeping up the technology of the host with the light engine it carries. The majority of us probably won't be able to afford a "Septa" type head (at least not me), but for the more affordable triples & quads by Jesse, Kenji and Tom, et al, improving the heat management of the P60 host should keep up with light engine a lot better. And "Ronac's" new Cryos heatsinking bezel goes a long in that direction.

Although his is a single XM-L design, the high-output of the Malkoff P60-size M91 can compete with many h.o. triples and quads, (ask "darvis" who has made casual runtime comparisons), but Gene's design can run on high until the battery is depleted without turning your hand into a burnt marshmallow. That's just a little of the type of technology I'm thinking of for the P60-size hosts that are home to h.o. triples & quads that you can only run on high for a few minutes. My wood-burning stove handle thought is just one example of thinking outside the current box.

Everyone of us on this thread would love to be able to use our h.o. triples & quads for longer than just a few minutes, so I just wanted to get the ideas started with my rudimentary example of the wood stove handle. Thanks for your consideration!

May God bless you all,
John

 

[stoli67]

John,

If you want something that will run on high till the batteries die then get a moddoolar triple and an FM 2 x 26650 host! I have this setup and it never gets too hot. With two 26650 cells it will go for a long time at full power.

Or do what I am waiting for

A septa running on medium is the same output as the triple but with the option of going to high if needed.

Or get macs 3300l but even that gets hot on high...

Andrew

 

[jcalvert]

John,

If you want something that will run on high till the batteries die then get a moddoolar triple and an FM 2 x 26650 host! I have this setup and it never gets too hot. With two 26650 cells it will go for a long time at full power.

Or do what I am waiting for

A septa running on medium is the same output as the triple but with the option of going to high if needed.

Or get macs 3300l but even that gets hot on high...

Andrew

H Andrew,

Hoping all is well with you. Notwithstanding your usual positive solutions, those are all big hosts and although I don't necessarily need for a P60-size light engine to run out a full battery for an hour +, I would like to extend the runtime to more than a few minutes on high and still be able to hold onto the the light.

So what I'm hoping to improve upon for a host to High Output (HO) light engines are hosts that are, for a lack of a better term, P60-size (like Surefire 6P, C2 or Z2, Solarforce L2p, etc.) that accomodate 1x 18650 and/or 2x CR123 form factors or basically a mid-size EDC (1") diameter body type host with a heatsinking head that doesn't overwhelm the body, like the Cryos head doesn't overwhelm a 1" body. So I'm sure we can come up with an LED saving, heatsinking, P60-size host that will allow us to run our HO light engines for much longer than a few minutes on high when the need arises. C'mon my brother from down under, let's have some fun and brainstorm together. We need a good challenge to advance this tecnology from all angles!

BTW, what have you received in the past two weeks that we haven't talked about yet? I always love to get your impressions and those wonderful photos. And I wanted to learn more about your Uncle in GR, but I was sidelined for the past week when I blew out my knee in a league hockey game last week. 44 years of playing and I get hurt on my last shift of the game of the last regular season game of the season, bummer man! Oh well, the price you pay for a sport you love to play. Stay in touch my friend!

All the best,
John

 

[brandocommando]

Please start a new thread for the host brainstorming, as this one is starting to go way off topic.

I am really impressed with those numbers the septa's putting up and I am so looking forward to a production run of these! I wonder what the price will/would be? I think this would be a really popular option for use with the new 22650 format. And those beamshots!!:huh:

 

[warmurf]

Hi all,

Quick question from a newbie...

With these Quads, Tri's and even hard driven P60s and the heat they produce- Is it the case that if left on say well past your ability to hold the light, the heat can get so much that the drop-in will self destruct? Or can they handle heat well past your threshhold and run at the maximum heat they can generate? I have a high tollerance to heat and sometimes worry that I'm using the light past it's point of tollerance and could be damaging it. I was using a Quad the other night until it was too hot, switched it off and passed it to a mate to show him how hot they get. He promptly dropped it (good on ya!) and when we went inside and checked his hand, he had a first degree burn (red glazed skin- shiny).

Like many I've learnt to "roll around" the flashlight in your hand, so no point of skin is in contact with the light for too long. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? When is too hot too hot for the light?

 

[brandocommando]

What Quad was that you were using? I am not sure about the specifics of all the triples and quads as there are a few different ones available, but in the VanIsle quad sales thread it does state that it has
"integrated thermal shutdown" so it probabally will not self destruct. I would imagine the Septa would have this as well.