What I learned this year

flatline

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After reading your OP, I'm surprised that the HDS lights would have fitted your criteria and that you'd appreciate it as much as you do.

It's true that the Ra Clicky doesn't meet a number of my criteria:
1. uses CR123 instead of AA
2. weak tailstanding ability coupled with being too heavy and wide to comfortably hold in the mouth
3. throwy rather than floody beam

I also wasn't sure I'd like the unconventional UI.

I decided to get it anyways for the following reasons:
1. I wanted to try a high CRI light and it was the cheapest I could find (very few such lights available without going custom)
2. The Ra Clicky is the only light discussed on CPF that is universally considered a great buy even considering its high price.

I still stand by my original criteria, but even with its failings in that regard, the high CRI Ra Clicky is a pleasure to use. The UI turned out to be a non-issue and I carry it with a Zebralight H501w which addresses failings 2 and 3. I still don't like CR123 cells on principle, but RCR123s are really no different than any of my other Li-ions to use, so it only irks me in theory, not in practice.

--flatline
 
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Belstaff1464

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The UI turned out to be a non-issue and I carry it with a Zebralight H501w which addresses failings 2 and 3. I still don't like CR123 cells on principle, but RCR123s are really no different than any of my other Li-ions to use, so it only irks me in theory, not in practice.

--flatline

Yep.......a lot of people that have misgivings about the Clicky's UI usually find that it's a non-issue once they've tried it. I know I did.

Like you, I also intend to edc a Zebralight headlamp to supplement my Clicky. In fact I ordered a H31 two weeks ago. I'll probably get the H30W as well but I thought I'd better try the H31 first before purchasing another.
 
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palimpsest

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It's true that the Ra Clicky doesn't meet a number of my criteria:
...
3. throwy rather than floody beam
I use mine a lot at close and med range and prefer a flooder for this but as it is quite easy to convert a thrower in a flooder with a diffuser, i prefer a thrower that is more versatile than a real flooder.
 

PCC

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A little over a year ago <snip>
Beam
-----
Most quality lights have a beautiful ring free beam with tightly defined hot spot and large spill. When combined with a multi mode light, this works great for just about everything except for reading. My Quark AA has a moon mode that is much dimmer than the lowest mode of my LF5XT, yet I can't read by it at night. Even in moon mode, the hot spot is so much brighter than the spill, that my adapted eyes can only read the words in the hot spot which means I need to constantly move the hot spot across the page. My LF5XT has a floody beam that's brighter in the center, but not enough brighter that I can't read by the spill. This means I don't have to move the light at all as I read across the page. Since I rarely need to throw light more than 50 feet, I'll take a floody beam over a throwy beam if I have a choice.
I agree with you on all counts but wanted to make comments about this one and add an additional point.

I've found that I like floody beams on lights as well but my more powerful lights (SF 6P size and up) are slowly changing to throwier lights. I find that the less powerful lights tend to be used close in and this demands a floodier beam, but, if you need a more powerful light then it'll either be a complete wall of light with little to no hotspot or it's for reaching out to locate something. If you're reaching out to locate something then a thrower is what you need. In any case, it's far easier to diffuse a thrower and make it floodier than it is to focus a floody light into a thrower (if anyone out there knows a secret to do this please share!).

PWM: I used to think that a low frequency PWM would not bother me. That is no longer the case. I had an ITP A3 EOS with the 200Hz PWM and, initially, I thought that it was a great light. Then I started to notice the PWM and it started to bother me more and more as I used it. I gave it to my brother and replaced it with a Quark Preon ReVO which does not use PWM. I still have a Mini-MagLED or three that use a low frequency PWM but these lights are hosts in my mind so that problem will be resolved as soon as I get some more emitters to build new pills with.

Almost all of my lights that use a clicky button to turn on have forward-clickies because I prefer the feel and near instant-on that you get from a forward-clicky. The light mounted to my shotgun, however, uses a reverse-clicky. The reasoning is that, when I turn that light on I want it to go on and stay on, not turn off like would happen if I short-stroke the button. With a reverse-clicky I have to engage the switch before it will turn on and it will stay on unless I hit it again.
 

flatline

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:twothumbsWish I could collect my thoughts like that!!!

And I wish it only had taken me a year to hone my preferences!! woould have saved me a bundle!!:mecry:

It's not by accident that I honed my preferences so quickly. I did lots of reading on CPF and decided what characteristics I thought I would like in a light. Then I systematically purchased lights that had variations on those characteristics so that I could experiment first hand. This same strategy is why I own so many trombone mouthpieces...each horn has different mouthpiece needs to get the most out of it. Fortunately, the search was much quicker with EDC flashlights.

I started with a neutral Quark AA since it was fairly well regarded and wasn't particularly unusual in any respect so I figured it would serve as a good baseline for my comparisons. I chose the 5A tint since I already knew I didn't like the bluish whites the 5mm LED showerheads all seemed to have.

I EDC'd the QAAw for a couple of months and came to the following conclusions:
1. I did like the tint
2. It was actually smaller than it needed to be for comfortable holster-carry
3. I had wasted my money on the 14500s since I never needed more than 100 lumens for anything from my EDC
4. UI's that required 2 hands to use were no good to me (fortunately, all the modes that I wanted in the QAA were available with the loose bezel, so I never needed both hands to use the QAA).
5. Using Li-ion cells in a light that doesn't have over-discharge protection was too involved to be worth it since I had to manually test the cell voltage any time the light got significant use. For the Quark AA, at least, LSD NiMh was the way to go.

Based on what I had learned from carrying the QAAw, I decided to purchase a neutral (5C) MG L-mini II. I had 6 unprotected 18650 cells that I had salvaged from a laptop and I already had the Pila charger from my 14500 experimentation. The L-mini's over-discharge protection meant I didn't have to worry about the cells and the increased size of the light let me determine that while the L-mini was fine, any light bigger than the L-mini would be too big to comfortably EDC in a belt holster. My two main complaints with this light was that it's beam was too throwy for comfortable up close work and that the Low mode was too bright for dark adjusted eyes. This was also the first light I had that had memory and I learned that while I could live with memory, I preferred how the Quark always started with the same mode.

The next light I got wasn't for me. My wife is a doctor and she had complained that her maglite solitaire wasn't bright enough to compete with the exam room overhead lighting, so I bought her an LF2XT. Before giving it to her, I played with it and decided that I loved the floody beam, the tint (4C?) and the programmability. Really, it was perfect except that it used AAA rather than AA, so I bought an LF5XT hoping I'd like it as much as the LF2XT. This was extremely educational and I learned the following:
1. even if I like everything else about a light, a cool white (WC) tint is unacceptable for a primary EDC light.
2. crenelations completely suck.
3. having a built-in voltmeter rocks.
4. programmability is only an advantage if it lets you fix something you don't like about the default UI of a light.

This was when I finally realized that unless there's a way to have a variable beam on a light (like the flood to throw lights or something similar), that it would be impossible to find a single light that would meet all my desires. I looked briefly at the variable beam lights and decided against them because it seemed an impossible task to find one with neutral tint and widely spaced modes suitable for EDC. Once I got that H501w, I probably could have been perfectly happy carrying it with either the Quark or L-mini, but I'd already become interested in the High CRI Ra Clicky.

I skipped over some lights that didn't really contribute to my learning that I purchased for other reasons, but that more or less sums up how I got where I am.

It's been a fun trip.

--flatline
 

Matt7337

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That was a very interesting read, and as someone has already said, it both shows that you have learned a lot from the experienced members here since joining and would also serve as a great post for a beginner to read to aid in the search for their "perfect" flashlight.

I have to say I have gone through a pretty similar learning process in the same time period as yourself on pretty much all the features you mentioned, and have ended up with a moderate collection of lights, all of which get used for different reasons and at different times, in different situations. I was just sitting looking through some previews of 2011 flashlights from some of my favourite manufacturers the other day and thinking that the next flashlight I buy (probably early next year) will be a much better thought out purchase than any that I have acquired since joining CPF, purely as a result of a) real world experience with lights that both have and have not got features that I want and need to have in a particular situation and b) the incredible amount of brilliant knowledge, advice and guidance that I have gained and continue to gain from the people here on CPF. I know it sounds corny but CPF's members really have shown me the light as far as high performance flashlights are concerned, and I am very grateful for that :thumbsup:
 

NonSenCe

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flatline: seems like we have very similar tastes when picking lights. (well.. i have noticed that before this also.. just decided to mention it now)

i decided to fight against liteflux 2xt all the way. (the delay turning on and the slightly too steep price for AAA light kept me away)

when /if they come back to market with few upgrades and modern twists like xpg neutral etc. i likely will buy one now.

the Ra lights. i just cant justify paying that much for single light. and the cr123 form also fights against me. i still want to keep my small main edc lights compatible with general store batteries (AA and AAA)

-not that i really run out of power ever yet from all my lights/batteries i carry with me.. (only single battery and then i just either use my backup or harvest a battery from it) but i just want the peace of mind that if i do run out, i can find spares everywhere.

also i somehow do prefer the length and thin sleek size of AAlight better than cr123 lights. they are better to carry in pocket. (but pocket carry thing against Ra clicky is invalid point as i would likely carry it just like i have carried my quark aa, in holster.) but in use. i generally seem to prefer slightly longer bodied lights.

if Ra would offer a slim AA light with their ui. high cri. tactical cliky. for 70 shipped to europe. i would be running hard to be the first to get one. (hell i would think hard about it if it were under 100.) again. this is with s/h included (seems like everyone selling ra lights ask some 30 dollars for shipping too.)

heck, any reputable manufacturer offering neutral or high cri momentary clicky light with simple few mode ui without blinky modes (hidden or programmable away) in aa or aaa form, for under 70 gets my attention. (70 is still my own made up limit what i can somehow still afford to abuse without feeling horrible remorse if something bad happens to it.)
 

Matt7337

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Can I just add that you made the right decision on the LF2XT from Liteflux.... I bought two at the time they came out, one for myself and one for a friend. They now both have the switching problems in the tail... it's just not a robust, reliable design. Mine will be going back sometime later this month once I get around to emailling Liteflux/PM'ing Khoo about it. I'm assuming my buddy will want his returned or replaced also, as it exhibits the same symptoms as mine with the tail switch working maybe only 10% of the time.

An unreliable flashlight is a bad flashlight.
 

flatline

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Can I just add that you made the right decision on the LF2XT from Liteflux.... I bought two at the time they came out, one for myself and one for a friend. They now both have the switching problems in the tail... it's just not a robust, reliable design. Mine will be going back sometime later this month once I get around to emailling Liteflux/PM'ing Khoo about it. I'm assuming my buddy will want his returned or replaced also, as it exhibits the same symptoms as mine with the tail switch working maybe only 10% of the time.

An unreliable flashlight is a bad flashlight.

Hmm...my wife hasn't mentioned anything amiss with her LF2XT. I'll pull it out of her white coat next chance I get and make sure it's working properly.

--flatline
 

JA(me)S

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The high CRI Ra Clicky is a warm tinted light, but since it includes a broader spectrum of light frequencies in order to improve the CRI, I would expect that it would create more glare than the regular neutral and warm tinted emitters due to their sparser spectrum.

If I get a chance to compare the high CRI emitter against my WC, 5C, and 7C lights in rain/fog/snow, I'll post my impressions.

--flatline

Thanks flatline, I bought a Quark 123^2 Warm Turbo specifically for these conditions. It performs admirably in heavy rain, and fog (haven't had a chance yet in snow). I'm trying to nail down my edc choice, and if a high CRI handles inclement weather nicely, it will aid in my decision making process. I also haven't seen this specific issue raised so...:popcorn:
 

Jute

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flatline-

Thank you for putting your thoughts to page for the rest of us enjoy. I've been following these forums for the better part of a few weeks now and to say the information contained herein is a bit overwhelming, as there is so much to comprehend. You have provided a great starting point for new guys like myself just starting out with quality lights. I actually found CPF by accident after purchasing a Streamlight Stylus Pro from Amazon. Knowing what I know now I wouldn't have bothered with the purchase. I'm planning on getting a Quark AA2 Tactical from 4sevens to start with in my new 'hobby.' :grin2: Although I've got to discover what 'works' for me, I've bookmarked your thread so I may always come back to it for understanding. Cheers! :thumbsup:
 

JA(me)S

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A little over a year ago, I got a 2AA energizer "lithium" flashlight which boasted 90 lumens max and could easily ramp the brightness down or back up by holding the button. It was a father's day gift and was the first LED light I'd ever had that wasn't some toy using 5mm leds (like the nite eyes 3-LED unit I had in my mini-mag for EDC).

Compared to what I'd previously experienced, the energizer 2AA lithium flashlight just screamed "quality" (which is really amusing in retrospect) and it made me wonder what else was out there.

That's what brought be to CandlePowerForums.

I remember reading posts where people were all worked up about things like tint, tail standing, memory, beam pattern, battery size and configuration, etc, and I wondered how anyone could get so worked up about something so "trivial".

Well, I understand a bit better now. This past year I've payed more attention to how I use the lights I have and the things that I like and dislike about all of them (none of them are perfect, but some are better than others) and I thought that I'd post a 1-year's retrospective about what I've learned about myself in regards to EDC flashlights.

We are a little over a week away from this wonderful post's 1st anniversary. I am anxious to find out what flatline learned this year...

:whistle: - Jas.
 

flatline

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We are a little over a week away from this wonderful post's 1st anniversary. I am anxious to find out what flatline learned this year...

:whistle: - Jas.

Hmm...it has been a year.

Give me a couple of days to ponder this last year and I'll see if I can pen any additions to my original post. I haven't really been in an exploratory mode this year like I was last year, but perhaps I've learned something worth sharing.

--flatline
 

flatline

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Okay, the learnings in this second year of flashaholism have been pretty tame compared to my first, but progress has, indeed, been made. To give you some context for the last year, let me first describe how my meager collection of lights has changed (in chronological order).

Bought a Zebralight H501w.
Bought an HDS high CRI Clicky.
Bought a Zebralight SC51w.
Traded my LF5XT for a 3D tinted Lumapower Incendio.

As before, my musings only apply to EDC lights. Specialty lights play by their own rules.

Lesson #1: It doesn't matter what a light gets wrong if it's still a pleasure to use or scratches a particular itch.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if a light's design runs counter to all of my general preferences, if I enjoy using the light, then that light is a winner. This lesson seems so obvious now, but it wasn't until I got my HDS Clicky that I even thought about it.

The HDS clicky is throwier than I like, heavier than I like, wider than I like, uses a cell size that I don't particularly care for, and doesn't tailstand. Even so, it's my absolute favorite light. It feels great in my hand, is completely predictable, is a breeze to program, has useful optional features that most lights lack, and the emitter's tint and CRI make for the most pleasing output of any flashlight I own.

The Lumapower Incendio gets lots of things wrong (funny memory, irritating "mode lock" that forces me to cycle modes slower than I would like sometimes, forward clicky, uses CR123/RCR123 cells, etc) but it's the only light I own that has a clip that I actually like. So even though I like just about every other light in my collection more than the Incendio, it's the light I carry any time I don't wear a belt.

Lession #2: It doesn't matter how much a light gets right if it gets something unforgivably wrong
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Zebralight SC51w sounded absolutely perfect on paper, but ended up being completely unsuitable for EDC since it was so easy to accidentally activate. I know you can lock out the tailcap, but that makes turning it on a two-step process that requires both hands (a huge no-no in my opinion for an EDC light). It has a couple of other minor failings (noticeable PWM on the lowest setting and freakishly stiff clip that takes both hands to get it to clip to my boxers), but except for the accidental activation problem, I would totally EDC this light.

Lesson #3: I don't want anything loose on my light when I carry or use it
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't like having to have a loose tailcap to prevent accidental activation. Tailcap lockout is a great feature for when you put a light in luggage or a bug-out-bag, but I totally don't want to deal with it with my EDC light.

I don't like having the bezel loose as part of a light's UI. My Quark AA would sometimes flicker on High because the threads were part of the electrical circuit, but were unloaded because the bezel had to be loose to access the regular modes. I solved this by adding an extra O-ring under the bezel so that I could tighten the bezel enough to load the threads, but still have access to the regular mode sequence. If there hadn't have been such an easy solution, I probably would have gotten rid of the Quark by now.


I think that sums up the new lessons learned this year. I do have some refinements to be made to some of last year's lessons, though.

Tailstanding: I'm still all for tailstanding although it's clearly not as critical as I thought it was last year since my main EDC light doesn't tailstand.

Tint: Still can't stand cool tints, but now that I'm spoiled by the CRI of my HDS, even regular neutrals and warms look anemic to me. Hopefully high CRI will become easier to find by the time I need a new light.

Beam: No change here. The beam of the LF5XT (no defined hotspot, but still some throw) is still my ideal, but a large hotspot as long as it blends into the spill (like the SC51w or ITP A3) is almost as good. Tint trumps Beam, however (which is why I traded away my LF5XT).

Brightness: 90% of my light use is at about 3L. I almost never go higher than 30L. However, there have been a couple of times when my eyes were adapted to bright sunlight and I needed to quickly look in a crawlspace or something where 100L simply wasn't enough. It would have been plenty if I'd given my eyes time to adjust, but that isn't always an option, so I'll grudgingly admit that I was wrong about the 100L being more than I ever need from an EDC light.

Memory: last year, I didn't like memory on an EDC light, but didn't really have a strong opinion about it. Now I hate it. I hope that some day, all lights are sufficiently programmable that I can turn memory off to have a 100% deterministic UI. If I have night adapted eyes, I absolutely need to be able to put the light in the lowest setting without first determining which mode it started in. If that makes it harder to loan the light, so be it. I already carry a loaner light so that folks don't try to borrow my HDS anyways.

Modes: for EDC, absolutely. I want one mode < 0.1L, one mode between 1 and 10L, and then one or two modes higher than that. My HDS is set up for 0.07, 3, 30, and 100.

Battery Configuration: I still prefer AA, but unless I'm traveling, I'm willing to use a light that uses RCR123 cells. Yes, this means that when I travel, I'll carry my Quark AA instead of the HDS Clicky.

Crenelated Bezels: still hate them.

Programmability: I'm still for it as long as it doesn't get in the way. The HDS implementation is great. The SC51 works fine, except that there's no way to go instantly to High from any other mode by double-clicking like you could with the previous non-programmable Zebralight UI. Not really a big deal, but it is an excellent example of how programmability can get in the way of using the light.

Reverse Clicky vs Forward Clicky vs Electronic Switch: Last year I didn't really care. Now that I actually own a forward clicky light (Incendio), I can say unequivocally that I prefer reverse clickies. I thought I could get used to a forward clicky, but after several months, I still struggle with it. Whether or not I like electronic switches still depends on the implementation of the UI. The HDS UI uses the electronic switch masterfully. The Zebralight UI depends on timing to determine if it starts on Low or High and even though I get the level I want 99% of the time, the 1% of the time when I get High when I wanted Low irritates me to no end (not technically the fault of the electronic switch, but without the electronic switch the UI couldn't function this way).


I guess that sums it up for this year. I've gotten a little less idealistic ("in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice, but...") and have started treating flashlights a little more like tools and a little less like toys in my daily use, so unless my needs change in the next year, it seems unlikely that I'll have much to report on the next anniversary of this thread. I hope you all enjoy this post as much as you did the original post and, as always, I look forward to your feedback.

This year, like last year, has been a good year to be a flashaholic.

--flatline
 

Fireclaw18

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Nice set of observations flatline.

I'm also in the process of narrowing down what I like in an EDC flashlight.

Last year I started with 1xAAA lights - Got an LF2XT with XPE neutral, a second LF2XT with cool white XPGR5, a Tank007 TK703, and a Fenix LD01. Those were great lights, but runtime on 10440 on high was extremely limited (as in maybe 1 minute at a time max). And on other settings, they just weren't bright enough for me. The TK703 was surprisingly nice, but only having one mode was often way too bright for me.

Eventually I decided that AAA just didn't have as much power as I wanted, and I started getting 1xAA lights. Got a Quark mini AA, Zebralight SC51, Nitecore EZAA R5, Sunwayman V10a, and Jetbeam BK135a and PA01. The mini AA was really tiny, but the twisty interface was complicated and not very fast to use one-handed... you had to do a lot of twisting to get to max mode. The Nitecore turned out to be a piece of junk, plagued by very loose threads and a tiny delicate o-ring.... so much so that just changing the battery took 5 minutes if I wanted to do it without chewing up the o-ring. The BK135a was great... until it overheated after 5 minutes of use on high on regular AA and died. I got it repaired under warranty, but Jetbeam repaired the light by sticking in a much inferior PA01 driver. The PA01 is brighter than the BK135a, but doesn't look as cool, has a worse UI and a greenish tint. Still it feels great in the hand. The Sunwayman V10a was the most disappointing of this crop of lights. Too slippery to use for EDC, and the beam has too much throw to make it useful as a close-range reading light. Even worse, my V10a broke and stopped working after dropping the head 1 meter onto a wooden floor while changing the battery. I doubt I'll ever buy another Sunwayman.

Next I decided to try zooming lights and ended up buying 5 or 6 budget zoomables and one expensive zoomable (Lenslight mini). Of the bunch, I was most impressed with the $11 EDI-T T11. It had a fairly wide zoom, laser-like spot (19k lux), and a ramping programmable interface with a very-low mode. Small enough to serve as a large EDC light. But eventually, I tired of the relatively weak flood from the XRE and the ugly Cree rings outside the flood.

Next I went to XM-L. First up was a Yezl Z1-X (too heavy and large for EDC, crenelated bezel tears up pockets, and build quality feels awful). Then I got a Thrunite Neutron 1c (very nice actually. Feels great in the hand, very bright floody beam, and quite small). Then a Xeno E03 (nice, but the Thrunite is better), and a Zebralight SC600 (feels great in the hand, great UI... but mine had the defective switch issue and is currently on its way through the postal system to Zebralight for repair. Hopefully this won't take 3 months like the repair to my Jetbeam PA01).

While waiting for the SC600 to arrive, I purchased a Shiningbeam S-mini. It's well-built, lightweight, and small for an 18650. But I considered it too long for EDC pocket carry and the extremely aggressive knurling was actually scratching stuff I put in my pocket. I was impressed with the neutral tint of this light despite its low output.

My latest phase this year is a little different. Still trying to find my perfect EDC, I settled again on cheap zoomables ... but this time I ordered parts online and souped them up. I've finished 3 so far and am still trying to decide which I like the most. 2 of them use the Sipik SK58 body and a third uses a modified Ultrafire K41 body. The modifications I made to these lights include emitter changes, driver changes, modifying position of the pill in the body to increase flood, addition of a reflector, and addition of extra heatsinking. All of them are 3-mode lights using Shiningbeam drivers. One is using an XPG R4 neutral at 1.4 amps (quite a nice tint. Similar to the S-mini but a bit cooler), another is using a 90+ CRI XPG at 1.4 amps (wow! tint is so yellow. Looks just like an incandescent), and the third is using an XM-L T6 at 2.8 amps (a true pocket rocket. Feels as bright as the Zebralight SC600 in turbo mode... in a much smaller light. Runtime is really low though).

I mostly use my EDC for occasional indoor use and it's carried loose in a pants pocket. So far I think I'm leaning towards using my modded zoomable with XM-L T6. It's very small for its output, and its ultra-bright floody beam is excellent for indoor use. Beam quality in flood mode is perfect (no rings or artifacts. And has a very wide, diffuse hotspot in the center from the reflector). At the same time it has the option of shifting into a much less perfect, but still quite useful throw mode. Lots of rings and halos in throw mode due to the reflector, but on the upside, those rings and halos mean that the light has actual spill in throw mode unlike a conventional aspheric zoomable without a reflector. And it throws much further than the SC600, Thrunite 1C, or my other non-zoomable lights.
 
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flatline

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I haven't yet attempted to mod lights but am envious of you and others that do. I have two small children and would never be able to find uninterrupted time for such projects. Maybe when they get older...

Good luck finding your "perfect" light. I got lucky with the HDS.

--flatline
 

JA(me)S

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Hmm...it has been a year.

Okay, the learnings in this second year of flashaholism have been pretty tame compared to my first, but progress has, indeed, been made.

This year, like last year, has been a good year to be a flashaholic.


--flatline

I could not agree with you more. Thanks flatline for sharing your path - just as last year; an enjoyable, thought provoking read.

:thumbsup: - Jas.
 

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