What would you pay for a Anod Alum or SS (Non-Ti) Titan?

[p1fiend]

I think Surefire really is pulling the wool over the eyes of quite a few people out there with the release and pricing of the Titanium Titan.

Think about what a SS or anodized alum Titan would/should cost.

Based on the material, features, and output Vs. other lights, what would you be willing to pay (for non-ti)?

Now I know asking this of CPF is probably a bad idea, since most people here seem to be a little too generous with forking over $$$ to companies, but what really justifies the $500 price?

I would not pay over $100 for a non-titanium Titan, and that's being generous based on the Titan's output vs other available lights.

So then where does the extra $400 come from?

-R&D and Manufacturing? No way! Surefire is a large company. I could see a small one man shop charging a lot for a custom light of limited quantity, but this shouldn't apply to Surefire.

-"Premium" bin LED : Worth a little, but hardly a valid % of $400.

-Titanium : Seriously, anyone with common sense should see that the Titan does not contain $400 worth of titanium.

So Surefire gets a big :thumbsdow from me for fooling people into wasting $500 for the titanium Titan. Even moreso because I doubt Surefire will release a $500 light then bring out a normal version for <$100. By pricing it high at first, it allows them to set the normal lights price even higher!

 

[Arcoholic]

As for the initial question i would pay as much as they ask as long as i want it bad enough.
And besides the cost of RD, production and a super healthy profit is worth it. Seeing that the light is manufactured on this continent it creates jobs right here and now.
Do not mean to be political here.

 

[VidPro]

but what really justifies the $500 price?

capitolism

 

[x2x3x2]

Dont forget, it's not the fact that it's made of Ti that's justifies the $500 price.
It's cos the Titan is a limited to 1000.

 

[Arcoholic]

I think this thread will get out of hand, and there is already one that touched a similar fundamental issue.
But for what it is worth nothing justifies the asking price it is jewelery now. And if my wife can wear carbon stones in her ear well then i can have a Surefire Titan if i can get my hands on one.
Or let me say it this way if William Henry sells one of his knifes for 450 bucks and he then takes the same knife and ads 25 cents worth of koftgari gold art and sells it for 1100,- nobody complains people buy them if they can A: afford them B: make the list

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

I'd not buy a non-Ti version. What makes the Titan so special and desirable is precisely its limited run and the titanium body.

 

[Handlobraesing]

I think Surefire really is pulling the wool over the eyes of quite a few people out there with the release and pricing of the Titanium Titan.

Think about what a SS or anodized alum Titan would/should cost.

Based on the material, features, and output Vs. other lights, what would you be willing to pay (for non-ti)?

Now I know asking this of CPF is probably a bad idea, since most people here seem to be a little too generous with forking over $$$ to companies, but what really justifies the $500 price?

I would not pay over $100 for a non-titanium Titan, and that's being generous based on the Titan's output vs other available lights.

So then where does the extra $400 come from?

The same place where the difference in price between the CPF popular Fenix P1D and P1D-CE comes from. P1D is $50, P1D-CE is $70. The cost difference couldn't be anything close to $20 their cost. The "same place" is called "profit margin"

I'd not buy a non-Ti version. What makes the Titan so special and desirable is precisely its limited run and the titanium body.

Damn right. The entire motive behind merchants and manufacturers creating artificial scarcity.

 

[Darell]

We already have the same non-sensical thread going over here. Different title, same apparent subject.

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=149269

 

[:)>]

I have been reading the threads where I have seen a fair amount of negativity surrounding the Titan and Surefire's pricing of it. I guess I will never understand it and I think that is because I shouldn't understand it.

I SHOULDN'T UNDERSTAND IT BECAUSE IT IS NONSENSE.

The Titan sits at the very top of the food chain right now and it is important for all to understand that any product that is at the top of the heap will command a high price.

There is no other flashlight that combines the quality of materials, quality of manufacturing and innovative engineering that the Titan does. Any company can buy a Cree or a Seoul P4 and put it in a light. No other company (w/the exception of HDS) consistently brings technology and innovation to bear like Surefire does and companies that innovate DESERVE and GET a higher profit margin for their efforts.

Show me one other light that has an apparently infinate number of levels between 0 and 80 lumens. They don't exist. Chances are, they will exist as soon as the Titan gets out and about. They will exist because other companies will be content not to innovate as they find it less expensive to imitate.

If you don't like the price of the Titan, don't buy it. Instead just wait and in due time, you can buy and be very happy with another companies knock off. This is the way things work and it is just fine.

Now, to answer the question of "what really justifies the price?":

The price is justified because people will gladly pay it and that is it; end of the discussion. Prices are not set by totaling up the cost of materials and the cost of production and then applying some mark up... at least not by competent companies. Prices are set by charging what people will pay and rest assured, every Titan produced and offered will be purchased. Then you will have your answer.

But I suspect questions like "what justifies the $500.00 price tag" are not meant for answers. Questions like this tend to be asked because because of the beliefs of those asking the question and really are just cleverly disguised complaints.

I have a suggestion for complainers... STOP COMPLAINING! It is unproductive and it is embarassing if the complainer is capable of being embarassed.

-Goatee the Capitalist

 

[flashy bazook]

a custom made light can justify a higher price, since a craftsman has to work specially, even to your own specifications.

the titan is artificially scarce; I don't run out to buy "limited" edition mint coins, or stamps, or....mass manufactured flashlights pretending to be unique.

just like in the early stages of the computer revolution we were duped into paying thousands for what would soon be obsolete equipment, it is the same here with an accelerating tech curve for LEDs.
the HA-3 aluminium is plenty tough; you saw the pics of the INOVA X5 being run over by a car and continuing to work; what will titanium do better? (it is even supposedly a worse heat sink!). The same you find for knives, a premium for titanium handles and such; but the premium is much less and non-metallic handles can work even better, especially in cold weather.

you have to distinguish "collectors" from the rest of us. I don't mind people behaving as good capitalists, I just will not be the one gilding their already golden cages!

 

[shabbasuraj]

Go CHINA!!!!!

 

[yaesumofo]

If It isn't titanium, it isn't a titan.
Nobody is forcing you to buy one. Go get a fenix insted. They must be a beter value than the Titan.

Yaesumofo

I think Surefire really is pulling the wool over the eyes of quite a few people out there with the release and pricing of the Titanium Titan.

Think about what a SS or anodized alum Titan would/should cost.

Based on the material, features, and output Vs. other lights, what would you be willing to pay (for non-ti)?

Now I know asking this of CPF is probably a bad idea, since most people here seem to be a little too generous with forking over $$$ to companies, but what really justifies the $500 price?

I would not pay over $100 for a non-titanium Titan, and that's being generous based on the Titan's output vs other available lights.

So then where does the extra $400 come from?

-R&D and Manufacturing? No way! Surefire is a large company. I could see a small one man shop charging a lot for a custom light of limited quantity, but this shouldn't apply to Surefire.

-"Premium" bin LED : Worth a little, but hardly a valid % of $400.

-Titanium : Seriously, anyone with common sense should see that the Titan does not contain $400 worth of titanium.

So Surefire gets a big :thumbsdow from me for fooling people into wasting $500 for the titanium Titan. Even moreso because I doubt Surefire will release a $500 light then bring out a normal version for <$100. By pricing it high at first, it allows them to set the normal lights price even higher!

 

[jumpstat]

My idea of a US$500 Titan :- Titanium, Waterproof to 100m, Narrow spot beam, 150 lumens on high, main light white with blue, yellow and red as secondary, Clicky (momentary on) with 5 preset brightness change by rotating head, programmable with USB, SOS Strob, Runtime 90 minutes to 50%, Glow rings in the lense, 4 gigs flash storage,mp3 player, high grade conolly leather pouch with unconditional lifetime international warranty (one for one exchange), free lifetime service and comes with 50 primaries good for 10 years.

As is, in SS i'd propably pay around US$70, Anodised Aluminium around US$60........This is purely my observation and personal opinion..........

 

[Casual Flashlight User]

I'd be willing to pay $100 for a Sure-Fire HAIII "Titan style" pocket rocket.

Would prefer it to be fully knurled from top to tail though...a soulmate for the HDS 120 that I will own as soon as it's available.

CFU

 

[Dark Mower]

Your power words have moved me. I think Fenix really pulled the wool over the eyes of quite a few people. Two and a half months ago, at a premium price and low manufacture, Fenix sold titanium lights at artificially high prices.

"I'm happy to announce a VERY limited run of Titanium L0's!! Before I
paste in the Fenix blurb from the manufacturer, I'll sum up...
- Made of titanium Alloy TA2
- Lux I SWOH
- Similar to the L0P-SE except with 5 modes
Primary -> Low -> Max -> Strobe -> SOS
- Limited to 250pcs worldwide - definitely a collector's item!"

People paid an excessive amount of cash for the privilege of owning something exclusive- bragging rights. It didn't cost them much to make so Fenix laughed all the way to the bank. It wasn't even revolutionary. What did people get? A different metal. Clever, wasn't it? Remember? Surefire does the same and now I see people complaining. They didn't complain about the Fenix, did they? Nope. Don't buy the Titan but don't complain. Surefire has the reputation, the quality, the emitter and the unlimited dimming to do it. I think it is great that the Surefire lights can command a premium. Good for them.

In case you forgot then…

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=139369

 

[yaesumofo]

Hey P1feind.
Under your name it says
Unenlightened.
By making posts of this nature you are showing us how Unenlightened you are.

The simple fact that SureFire decided to only make 1k of these in titanium is unusual. SureFire would normally make lights in the multiples of 1000's. This is a small run for them. This is also a much smaller light than they usually make. I have no doubt that each one is individually assembled and tested by hand.

All of you who think this light it too expensive: I challange you to go out and duplicate this light, Just try to create the technology in this light from scratch no less. I would love to see you degign this light and produce 1000 of them and be able to sell them for under $500.00 each. You are not SureFire I doubt that you could sell them for $500.oo
Go ahead have at it.

That said why shouldn't SureFire design a unique flashlight build it and sell it for as much as the market will bare? They are a private company they answer to nobody, especially Newbies with as little experience as you.
I aplaud SureFire for taking a risk. I have no doubt they will sell every one of these lights. People will be comming back for more. Why? Because 1000 of them is not enough.
BTW if you look around a little you will find plenty of lights for sale on the CPF which sell for more.
I am not even 100% sure I will buy one of these little things. I am sure that if I don't sombody else will.
Yaesumofo

I think Surefire really is pulling the wool over the eyes of quite a few people out there with the release and pricing of the Titanium Titan.


Think about what a SS or anodized alum Titan would/should cost.

Based on the material, features, and output Vs. other lights, what would you be willing to pay (for non-ti)?

Now I know asking this of CPF is probably a bad idea, since most people here seem to be a little too generous with forking over $$$ to companies, but what really justifies the $500 price?

I would not pay over $100 for a non-titanium Titan, and that's being generous based on the Titan's output vs other available lights.

So then where does the extra $400 come from?

-R&D and Manufacturing? No way! Surefire is a large company. I could see a small one man shop charging a lot for a custom light of limited quantity, but this shouldn't apply to Surefire.

-"Premium" bin LED : Worth a little, but hardly a valid % of $400.

-Titanium : Seriously, anyone with common sense should see that the Titan does not contain $400 worth of titanium.

So Surefire gets a big :thumbsdow from me for fooling people into wasting $500 for the titanium Titan. Even moreso because I doubt Surefire will release a $500 light then bring out a normal version for <$100. By pricing it high at first, it allows them to set the normal lights price even higher!

 

[greg_in_canada]

The selling price of products has very little to do with the cost of manufacturing them. Every company tries to maximize its profit so they will choose a price where they feel they can get the most money.

Notice the differene in price between the ARC AAA-P and the standard AAA ($40 vs $30) for perhaps a $0.10 difference in LED cost. But it's actually quite clever of them. The price sensitive customers pay $30 and the ones who want the best pay $40 ($9.90 of extra profit {estimated}). So Arc gets more profit than selling only the AAA-P at $40 or at $30.

If Surefire can sell a limited edition of the Titan at $500 then later have a non-limited edition at $400 and an aluminum version at $300 they are being (business) smart.

Greg

 

[jch79]

We already have the same non-sensical thread going over here. Different title, same apparent subject.

:thumbsup: I can't wait to take a picture of mine all beat up. I'll try and dig this thread up and do so.
Who is this Darell guy anyways? There should be a thread devoted just to him.
john

 

[UKSFighter]

One interesting thing to note, the Titan has been in development for at least 2 years (anyone remember the Pocket Rocket). PK wanted to release a special limited edition light, but it had to be just right.... with R&D for the design, prototypes, samples, redesign, marketing, materials, manufacturing costs, imaging, models for product, testing, packaging, and then the 1000 unit limited edition.... thats the justification for $500. It costs a lot of money to develop and bring a new product all the way to market. Then to say we have this brand new product, we will warranty it for life, but we are only going to produce and sell 1000 of them EVER. You are destined to lose money. I would suspect that SF is loosing money overall on this product.... new products are designed to sell tens of thousands of units or more. It take thousands sold sometimes just to recover initial costs. Sometimes, the larger the company and their facilities the more it costs. Think about all the time employees spent working on one piece or another, the machinery that was taken up to produce one part or another. That time can't be recovered and wasn't being used to work on or produce other products, those are substantial costs that are easily overlooked. Independent developers often don't and can't take into account their time spent on a project when they decide to set a price. Enough rambling, just had some thoughts to express on the topic.

 

[jch79]

Hey P1feind.
Under your name it says
Unenlightened.
By making posts of this nature you are showing us how Unenlightened you are.

Easy killer...