What's the deal with the Diverite LED LUX? For real or not?

[VicDiver]

Does anyone know what the real lumen output of this light is?


The reason I ask is they claim to have 940 lumens of output power
http://www.diverite.com/products/catalog/lights/lt6250led-lux

Yet, when you read the technical specs, the numbers don't add up. The Luxeon K2 has a max of 300 lumens at 1500mA.
http://www.philipslumileds.com/pdfs/DS60.pdf

How do I know that they are K2s? Check out this thread:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=241253

​

Adjusting for a little cooling, you might get another 5% out of the LED so say 315 lumens per LED. This will give 945 max lumens assuming 100% optical efficiency...which won't be the case.

The datasheet says 6 hours of run time of 6 hours on a 12V 4.5Ah battery
http://www.diverite.com/downloads/diverite_146.pdf

How is this possible? 4.5/6 = 750mA drive current....which means one of the specs is wayyy off. The light output or the run time. The LED needs 1500mA to get anywhere near the rated lumen output.


Any comment on this? Are the marketing specs wrong?

 

[Goldigger]

I've read a few reports of the canisters leaking, If i were to buy a light like the LED lux then i would probably look at the Light Monkey range or the Agir as they have a sealed battery compartment, you just remove the lid to charge. They call it a dry lid
But then i dont think you will match the price of the LED lux, cheapest I've seen it for is £600
http://www.divepursuits.com/products/prod/15271/led-lux-canister-light

 

[Packhorse]

Cant really comment as I have no idea what they use...but


Many light manufactures lie eer I mean exaggerate specs.
Lets look at lumen. I have a P7 and we all know the top bin P7 is 900 lumen so who is to say this one doesnt put out 900 lumen?
Now its resistor driven. On a fresh charge I get 100% of Vf so 900 lumen is produced. Lets ignor the fact the lens only passes 95% of light and the optics are only 90% efficient (770 projected lumen). It still produces 900 lumen for the 1st few minutes until the voltage begins to sag.

Batteries and run time.

Since the voltage is sagging there is less current and there for longer run times. Sure it does not really run for 20 hours at 900 lumen . BUT it does produce 900 lumen and run for 20 hours.
Lets not forget that on the test subject they probably sort out the best battery pack they could and tested it under the best conditions too. Perhaps in multiple 10 minute runs instead of one continuous run and at the best ambient temperature.

 

[VicDiver]

I agree most light manufactures lie about their specs. I am hoping the DOEs CALIPER program and lighting fact sheet start to appear on these specialty lights as well.

As per overstating specs, if this unit does not use direct drive, then the drop in battery voltage will not affect the light output, it will be a constant current driver. Based on my calculations, 750mA will give the runtime required, but only about 600 lumens of light.

Something does not seem right to me.

Can anyone verify that they are using K2 LEDs, picture is in this thread:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=241253

 

[VicDiver]

Well, after a call into Diverite, they claim that the method in which they calculate the lumen output is proprietary! I can't believe that, it's an industry standard test.

I know for a fact they are using Luxeon K2s, so the maximum output they could ever get at full current (assuming a perfect optic) is 900 lumens at 1.5A of current. I am willing to bet that the actual light output is no where near that.

Assuming that the LEDs are being driven by 700mA (to get the run time they claim), the light output assuming an optical efficiency of 90% (really good for such small lenses) is surely closer to:

185 Lumens per LED* 3 LEDs * 0.9 Optical Efficiency =
499.5 Lumens!

 

[Codiak]

Well, after a call into Diverite, they claim that the method in which they calculate the lumen output is proprietary! I can't believe that, it's an industry standard test.

I know for a fact they are using Luxeon K2s, so the maximum output they could ever get at full current (assuming a perfect optic) is 900 lumens at 1.5A of current. I am willing to bet that the actual light output is no where near that.

Assuming that the LEDs are being driven by 700mA (to get the run time they claim), the light output assuming an optical efficiency of 90% (really good for such small lenses) is surely closer to:

185 Lumens per LED* 3 LEDs * 0.9 Optical Efficiency =
499.5 Lumens!

500 Lumens would match their 1st gen Led light.

Other than truth in advertising why does it matter?

 

[VicDiver]

1. It's dishonest
2. It won't allow an accurate comparison of LED technology to HID as you can't compare apples to apples.

500 lumens is approximately = 10W HID

I really hope the DOE gets wind of this and requires all flashlight manufacturers to start labeling the light output as per LM-79 specs.

 

[Codiak]

1. It's dishonest
2. It won't allow an accurate comparison of LED technology to HID as you can't compare apples to apples.

500 lumens is approximately = 10W HID

I really hope the DOE gets wind of this and requires all flashlight manufacturers to start labeling the light output as per LM-79 specs.

I agree completely with the Dishonest part, but so too is the 500Lumens =10w hid

I've never SEEN an LED that = 10W HID... Quailty of beam, focus, flood, color etc... this from a guy been diving LEDs exclusively for well over a year...

LEDs have their own advantages and I'd prefer we don't compare them in terms of brightness.

No offense to the sellers and builders of CPF who's lights I've yet to evaluate! PM if you my need an postal address to send evaluation samples

 

[VicDiver]

Well, a lumen is a lumen. Some lights have different beam angles and chromaticity coordinates.

For general illumination, lumens work great. how much light is being emitted from a light source in all directions. For flashlights, the light is focused in a specific area. Lux ratings along side lumens would give the full story.

You can compare ANY light this way. And yes they will be directly comparable.

 

[Codiak]

You can compare ANY light this way. And yes they will be directly comparable.

Lumen per Watt has been improving at a good clip.
Batteries are getting better and thanks to the auto industry the future is bright. ( no pun intended)
Product sizes are shrinking
Durability is getting better.

In 10 years time its likely we won't need to compare as everyone will be diving with Pen lights brighter than 20w today and damn near unbreakable, not to mention cheap.
Either that or we will have infrared contacts (*grins*)


Regardless,
I'm guessing you have an HID you'd like to market or are marketing?

 

[VicDiver]

Nope, just trying to keep 'em honest!

 

[Codiak]

Nope, just trying to keep 'em honest!

All for that!

Nothing hurts a company more that published customer complaints You could try writing an editorial to the dive mags or just try to submit a roving reporter story.

You could also ask in the Dive Rites forum on Scubaboard and see if they will make a public statement.

 

[gcbryan]

I agree with everything said above but I think they are just playing the game the same way the other companies are playing it.

They are using 3 emitters that when driven to their spec will give the lumen that they claim.

Due to all the factors that we all know about it will be somewhat less than that in reality.

The runtime I assume is not stated at max rated brightness so it's kind of a meaningless figure.

If their competitors rate their lights this way than I can see why DIve Rite feels compelled to do likewise.

I don't agree with it but there's nothing unique going on with Dive Rite is there?

Regarding 10W HID and 500 lumen led...I think when you consider the whole picture that's a reasonable comparison. A led is not exactly the same as HID but given the same lumen output and a 6 degree hotspot they both can get the same job done more or less.

 

[VicDiver]

That game has got to stop. Customers must educate themselves. Ask for the beef. Where are the photometric plots?

It has started to be standardized in the LED light bulb replacement arena http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/ssl/caliper.html The Govt realized there was no way anyone would buy LED bulbs if manufacturers put misleading claims on the products.

The statement about the lumen output of the DiveRite LED LUX is complete misrepresentation, the LEDs themselves could never put out that much power (unless over driven and derated). So its pretty obvious there are twisting the truth even beyond normal. In the thread linked above, the drive current of the LEDs was found to be 722mA...no where near the 1.5A area.

I got an email from DiveRite after I asked how they calculated the lumen output or what test they preformed to prove it was 940 lumens. They said the method they use is proprietary and would not share it!

Shame on them, its a standardized test. It costs ~300 - $500 for a integrating sphere test for Lumen output and there are many labs that can do it.

 

[gcbryan]

I just saw (and read) the other link...then why would they not drive it properly and get the advertised lumen since it is capable of getting that more or less?

 

[Codiak]

I just saw (and read) the other link...then why would they not drive it properly and get the advertised lumen since it is capable of getting that more or less?

Battery duration perhaps?

Or someone at Dive Rite believes it is built to 1000 lumen spec and the fab guys skimmed a little?

All I know is I want a 5A driver for my freak SST-50, NOW!!!!

 

[VicDiver]

I think it is battery duration. The max lumens you reliably get would be 300*3*.9 = 810 lumens. But the battery run time would be half.

Just think, you get an LED light from these guys and not only are they inflating the brightness by 100%, you won't get any quality assurance that the LED they are using has not drifted. You get what you get!

Given that someone brought up that they are only playing the same game as everyone else. Are there any other LED dive light manufacturers overstating their lumen output values by this much? Anybody have any proof like what we have in this thread?

 

[Codiak]

First nocturnal light I got I was sure overstated lumens. Not sure about the second gen but I can pull it apart if we want to check

the Tusa 300 is very wide which makes me doubt lumen rating. But then again it's wiiidddeeee.


Perhaps our resident manufactures have ideas of who is blatent

 

[Goldigger]

I think its wrong to quote the lumens of a led from the datasheets.
It would be better if the lights were tested with a lux/lumen meter at a fixed distance.
Different optics and reflectors loose thoose lumens to different amounts when used on the same led..


I think its funny that dive rite said the lumens were a propriatry test, nutrition supplements list some of there ingredients as a propriatry blend.
They do this so copy cat companys cannot copy there supplements as they dont know how much of each ingrediant it contains, the problem is you spend your money on a product that you dont really know what your getting. Looks to be the same with the dive rite lux

 

[gcbryan]

It's like dive computers...the algorithm is Haldane, Neo Buhlmann, Buhlmann (which is neo-Haldane). It's all BS really. Everyone is trying to distinguish themselves in a very indistinguishable field.

Most of the dive light's are using the same led's . I totally agree with the comment above regarding lights should be tested as configured rather than referring to led manufacturer data sheets.