What's up with rebels?
- Thread starter sparkysko
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because the crees used are more efficient or brighter for the same power used
Black Rose
Flashlight Enthusiast
...and with the rebels you still have to suffer with the Luxeon lottery.
I've got a Rebel 90 light that I absolutely hate due to it's red/pink tint....that's why it was banished to the car.
I've got a Rebel 90 light that I absolutely hate due to it's red/pink tint....that's why it was banished to the car.
WadeF
Flashlight Enthusiast
People here tend to like the latest and greatest emitters, which isn't what you find in popular store lights.
If we were all about popular lights at Walmart, etc, we'd all be talking about our stock incan Maglights.
The Rebels you find in lights at Walmart, etc, are usually low binned Rebels, which aren't up to the standards of most of us here.
If we were all about popular lights at Walmart, etc, we'd all be talking about our stock incan Maglights.
The Rebels you find in lights at Walmart, etc, are usually low binned Rebels, which aren't up to the standards of most of us here.
lolzertank
Enlightened
There's many reasons why CPFers tend to prefer Cree over Lumileds. First, Cree managed to double efficiency with their XR-E series and as of now still holds the efficiency crown. A few extra lumens never hurts. Second, Lumileds has been getting itself a pretty bad reputation in the last few years. The K2 (non-TFFC) was a total disaster with inordinately high Vfs and disappointing efficiency. When the problems were fixed with TFFC in 2007, Lumileds received a bad batch of epoxy for the TFFC emitters and had do recall thousands, if not millions of faulty emitters. Not only that, CPFers have been patiently waiting Lumileds' Gen X emitters which were announced all the way back in January 2007. Sadly, it appears like the soon to be released Cree XP-G will match if not beat Gen X's efficiency.
In short, CPF doesn't like Lumileds because of their history of low efficiency, recalls and vaporware.
Consumer manufacturers on the other hand have one goal in mind: Make money. Lumileds' Rebels are cheap and in reality are almost as good as Cree's XR-Es. The old problems have all been solved, and what consumer manufacturer wants to spend significantly more money on a only slightly better part?
In short, CPF doesn't like Lumileds because of their history of low efficiency, recalls and vaporware.
Consumer manufacturers on the other hand have one goal in mind: Make money. Lumileds' Rebels are cheap and in reality are almost as good as Cree's XR-Es. The old problems have all been solved, and what consumer manufacturer wants to spend significantly more money on a only slightly better part?
csshih
Flashlight Enthusiast
m@g probably has an agreement with philips to use their LEDs
Marduke
Flashaholic
And with the XP-E available now, the small footprint and beam pattern of the Rebel (perhaps the last thing in it's favor) can be had in more accessible formats.
Black Rose
Flashlight Enthusiast
:thumbsup:
I received my first XP-E light yesterday. At least to me, the beam pattern is as close to perfection as I have ever seen, and from such a small emitter.
mudman cj
Flashlight Enthusiast
I am a big fan of neutral tint LEDs, and Rebels are still tops in this area because they are rated at 1 Amp of current compared to 700mA for neutral XR-E or XP-E LEDs. I have a light that overdrives a neutral Rebel 100 to 1.3 Amps and it is a thing of beauty that can't be matched by other LEDs at this time. A neutral XP-G will likely knock it from its perch though - and that will be fine with me. :naughty:
regulator
Flashlight Enthusiast
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- Jul 22, 2006
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I think the Rebels may have a slight advantage in efficiency at lower power levels below 200ma to the LED (according to some of the Vf data sheets). They are good in small lower powered lights. They seem to loose the advantage at higher power levels even though they can handle them well.
I have 2 lights with the "cool" Rebel 100 (which is their higher efficient emmiter). The tint is more neutral than a WC Cree even though they are called "cool". They appear warm compared to a WC tint Cree.
So I do like the Rebels in the small AAA lights by Peak that I own. They seem to be very efficient and have very good tint IMO. They look better outdoors than any of the WC tint Cree lights I own.
I have 2 lights with the "cool" Rebel 100 (which is their higher efficient emmiter). The tint is more neutral than a WC Cree even though they are called "cool". They appear warm compared to a WC tint Cree.
So I do like the Rebels in the small AAA lights by Peak that I own. They seem to be very efficient and have very good tint IMO. They look better outdoors than any of the WC tint Cree lights I own.
Woods Walker
The Wood is cut, The Bacon is cooked, Now it’s tim
They seem to work great in the newer EOS. Don't own any other Rebel lights however and can't say if the EOS would not have been even better with a Cree. Just that it has a Rebel LED and I like it.
People here tend to like the latest and greatest emitters, which isn't what you find in popular store lights.
If we were all about popular lights at Walmart, etc, we'd all be talking about our stock incan Maglights.
The Rebels you find in lights at Walmart, etc, are usually low binned Rebels, which aren't up to the standards of most of us here.
FYI - walmart does sell the Coleman Max line of
lights many of which use XR-C and XR-E emitters. Of course for the price you can usually get something better online but just wanted to point out that all the rreadily available lights are not using Lumileds.
brad
HarryN
Flashlight Enthusiast
The rebels (and the equivalent cree part) are ideal for mass production, automatic surface mount equpment. They (both) are nice LEDs for mass market products, and the designs are specifically to minimize parts count and costs.
Relatively few people here can actually solder such a part correctly, so naturally, the tendency of people building lights is going to be to use an LED which can they can solder, and perhaps even better, swap out later as technology improves. With an SMT type part like a Rebel, this really is not feasible.
As you have noticed from reading here on the forum, there are some strong biases for one brand or another, which sometimes supercede the current reality that the products lines are virtually a draw.
One of the really nice things about the Rebel is the very small apparent die size, which makes for very bright apparent surface brightness, which then translates into nice throw.
Relatively few people here can actually solder such a part correctly, so naturally, the tendency of people building lights is going to be to use an LED which can they can solder, and perhaps even better, swap out later as technology improves. With an SMT type part like a Rebel, this really is not feasible.
As you have noticed from reading here on the forum, there are some strong biases for one brand or another, which sometimes supercede the current reality that the products lines are virtually a draw.
One of the really nice things about the Rebel is the very small apparent die size, which makes for very bright apparent surface brightness, which then translates into nice throw.
csshih
Flashlight Enthusiast
47s quarks are .70 A for the aa, 2aa, and cr123a,
and .99 A for 2cr123a.
EDIT: DOh! I was thinking something else.
Last edited:
Theatre Booth Guy
Enlightened
+1 I couldn't be happier with my Rebel Peak's
mudman cj
Flashlight Enthusiast
I don't know where you got this information, but according to the 4sevens website, these are the LED drive currents:
1xAA=350mA
2xAA=700mA
1x123=700mA
2x123=990mA
I got the rated drive current for XP-E LEDs directly from Cree's datasheet, and it specifies a maximum of 700mA for the XP-E.
So, only the 2x123 light is over driving the LED, and the drive level is approximately equivalent to 990/700*1 = 1.4 Amp drive level for an emitter specified to run at 1 Amp in terms of excess heat production. The Rebel 100 will put out more lumens at 1.4 Amps than the XP-E at 990mA with a similar impact on LED lifetime due to excess heat.
Illum
Flashaholic
CREE XR-E/XR-Cs are much easier to work with than rebels...but that'll change was we shift into CREE XP-C/XP-E/XP-Gs
gadget_lover
Flashaholic
I like the rebels.
If you get the RB100 you get a guaranteed minimum of 100 lumens at 1 watt. That's pretty cool with the smaller lights.
I've liked the tint in all of mine so far. I just bought a couple more to play with.
Daniel
If you get the RB100 you get a guaranteed minimum of 100 lumens at 1 watt. That's pretty cool with the smaller lights.
I've liked the tint in all of mine so far. I just bought a couple more to play with.
Daniel
Marduke
Flashaholic
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