Rosoku Chikara
Enlightened
Note: I started by posting these same thoughts on another thread, and then I realized that I was "off topic" and decided to start my own thread.
Judging from the rather strong "reactions" that I have received in other threads on this forum regarding my own (personal) decision to purchase and use only "black" Eneloops Pros: I would welcome an open (and unbiased) discussion on this new thread regarding which currently available Eneloop battery you feel is the most "useful" in the real world, and why do you feel so?
For example, I personally do not see the apparent 500 cycle "limitation" of the Pro Eneloop series as any kind of a real "limitation" at all.
This no doubt depends upon your own particular application, but in my case, I am almost never going to fully discharge my batteries within one week, every week.
That means that, given the 500 cycle "life" of the Black Eneloop Pro batteries that I have recently purchased, they will still last me for ten years! (Frankly, I do have all that much confidence that I will even be alive ten years from now, much less worried about whether not the batteries I purchased ten years ago are still holding their charge!)
So, in my opinion, don't be "fooled" by the numbers: How may cycles are you really going to ever realistically use?
And, is the difference between 70% capacity after five years, or 85% capacity after one year, all that important to you? (Given their much higher starting capacity, the Black Eneloop Pro batteries will always have the longest runtimes after one year. And, I suspect they would still have respectable capacity, even after five years.)
Once again, this all depends on your application, but if you are all that worried about how long your batteries will hold a charge, then I suggest you spend the money and invest in L91, and "call it a day."
But, in "reality," or in the real world, how often are you thinking that you would ever really let your batteries "go" for five years without recharging them?
For that matter, how often are you even going to let them "go" for one year without recharging? (I am not saying that such a thing couldn't happen. I am simply asking just how often is such a thing is likely to be your primary concern?)
Even in "survival mode," all you really need is a 12v charger that will work off a car (or a car battery) in order ensure your ability to recharge your batteries. (And, if you were all that serious about it, I think you would naturally consider investing in a solar system, or a miniature waterwheel, or a miniature windmill, or some other similar technology that would allow you to recharge your batteries in a true crisis.)
In any case, I would like to further address the issues of cost, and cycles.
Once again, I fully welcome the potential for "discussion" or debate on this thread, but when it comes to the initial investment cost of any Eneloop battery, I want to know just what are we actually talking about. How important is that cost to you?
Obviously, there is always a certain "initial investment cost" when purchasing any Eneloop battery, but whatever that actual cost was, I think it becomes highly trivialized once you consider the fact that you will (hopefully) always be able to "amortize" your investment over 50, or 100, or 200 cycles.
(And, if you ever you start thinking in terms of 500-2,100 cycles... the differences in initial investment cost truly approaches "zero.")
Anyway, that is what I think about the cost. And, as I have already written above, I have a real question about the benefits of having a high number of cycles: Just how may cycles do think you are ever going to live to "enjoy"?
Unless you truly use your flashlight for many hours every day (and I do not deny that such applications do exist), "most" people are not going to recharge their rechargeable batteries, all that often.
But, as a matter of "marketing" Japanese battery manufacturers spend a lot of time "telling" their potential customers about how many cycles that their particular battery will last.
And, once again, I am not saying such a user doesn't exist, but if he does exist, I am very interested in hearing his first hand experience about how he used his Eneloop battery for a 1,000 or more cycles, and how he found that that battery's performance began to fail in some catastrophic way. (Personally, I have never yet heard of such a thing.)
The reason I say that is, I honestly doubt that many of us will ever "use up" any Eneloop battery until it was truly "worn out" due to the number of cycles it was charged and recharged.
Personally, I think in terms of about "only" about 100 cycles. (And, for me, this is "enough.")
For me, that means that if I recharge my batteries every week, my batteries (whatever type they are) will easily "last" about two years. (Once again, for me, two years is "plenty.")
I do not mean to say that any of my batteries would ever be considered "trash" after only 100 cycles. What I mean to say is that any such batteries might get relegated to a less demanding application, if they were indeed ever demonstrated as being no longer capable of holding a charge near their original rated capacity. (But, in reality, I cannot see such a thing ever happening at only 100 cycles, no matter which type Eneloop I choose.)
So, my point is that whether you "invest" in standard Eneloops, or Eneloop Pros, I think that the difference in cost between the two type batteries becomes highly trivialized; so long as you assume you are really going use whichever battery type you have selected, at least a 100 charge and discharge cycles.
And, having written all the above, I am now going to attempt to keep my final conclusion as succinct as possible: Would you rather have a bird in hand, or two in the bush?
In other words:
Do you really care all that much about relatively small (given amortization) price differences, and the relatively "distant" rewards of potentially long battery cycle life?
(Which, in my personal case, I doubt whether I am likely to ever live to enjoy? And, even if I did, wouldn't the cost of batteries reveal themselves to be fairly minor within the greater scheme of things?)
Or, would you prefer to enjoy the longest runtimes "that I know of" from an LSD NiMH battery on a "day-to-day" basis, right now? (Since you know, for certain, that you can immediately "benefit" from those longer runtimes, beginning with today?)
In my opinion, "Let the future take care of itself." (And for me, this was not such a difficult decision to make.)
Batteries are the true lifeblood of any flashlight. Why would you ever spend tens, hundreds, or perhaps even thousands of dollars, on flashlights; and then "skimp" on the cost of their batteries? (To me, that just doesn't make any sense.)
I welcome any and all comments.
Judging from the rather strong "reactions" that I have received in other threads on this forum regarding my own (personal) decision to purchase and use only "black" Eneloops Pros: I would welcome an open (and unbiased) discussion on this new thread regarding which currently available Eneloop battery you feel is the most "useful" in the real world, and why do you feel so?
For example, I personally do not see the apparent 500 cycle "limitation" of the Pro Eneloop series as any kind of a real "limitation" at all.
This no doubt depends upon your own particular application, but in my case, I am almost never going to fully discharge my batteries within one week, every week.
That means that, given the 500 cycle "life" of the Black Eneloop Pro batteries that I have recently purchased, they will still last me for ten years! (Frankly, I do have all that much confidence that I will even be alive ten years from now, much less worried about whether not the batteries I purchased ten years ago are still holding their charge!)
So, in my opinion, don't be "fooled" by the numbers: How may cycles are you really going to ever realistically use?
And, is the difference between 70% capacity after five years, or 85% capacity after one year, all that important to you? (Given their much higher starting capacity, the Black Eneloop Pro batteries will always have the longest runtimes after one year. And, I suspect they would still have respectable capacity, even after five years.)
Once again, this all depends on your application, but if you are all that worried about how long your batteries will hold a charge, then I suggest you spend the money and invest in L91, and "call it a day."
But, in "reality," or in the real world, how often are you thinking that you would ever really let your batteries "go" for five years without recharging them?
For that matter, how often are you even going to let them "go" for one year without recharging? (I am not saying that such a thing couldn't happen. I am simply asking just how often is such a thing is likely to be your primary concern?)
Even in "survival mode," all you really need is a 12v charger that will work off a car (or a car battery) in order ensure your ability to recharge your batteries. (And, if you were all that serious about it, I think you would naturally consider investing in a solar system, or a miniature waterwheel, or a miniature windmill, or some other similar technology that would allow you to recharge your batteries in a true crisis.)
In any case, I would like to further address the issues of cost, and cycles.
Once again, I fully welcome the potential for "discussion" or debate on this thread, but when it comes to the initial investment cost of any Eneloop battery, I want to know just what are we actually talking about. How important is that cost to you?
Obviously, there is always a certain "initial investment cost" when purchasing any Eneloop battery, but whatever that actual cost was, I think it becomes highly trivialized once you consider the fact that you will (hopefully) always be able to "amortize" your investment over 50, or 100, or 200 cycles.
(And, if you ever you start thinking in terms of 500-2,100 cycles... the differences in initial investment cost truly approaches "zero.")
Anyway, that is what I think about the cost. And, as I have already written above, I have a real question about the benefits of having a high number of cycles: Just how may cycles do think you are ever going to live to "enjoy"?
Unless you truly use your flashlight for many hours every day (and I do not deny that such applications do exist), "most" people are not going to recharge their rechargeable batteries, all that often.
But, as a matter of "marketing" Japanese battery manufacturers spend a lot of time "telling" their potential customers about how many cycles that their particular battery will last.
And, once again, I am not saying such a user doesn't exist, but if he does exist, I am very interested in hearing his first hand experience about how he used his Eneloop battery for a 1,000 or more cycles, and how he found that that battery's performance began to fail in some catastrophic way. (Personally, I have never yet heard of such a thing.)
The reason I say that is, I honestly doubt that many of us will ever "use up" any Eneloop battery until it was truly "worn out" due to the number of cycles it was charged and recharged.
Personally, I think in terms of about "only" about 100 cycles. (And, for me, this is "enough.")
For me, that means that if I recharge my batteries every week, my batteries (whatever type they are) will easily "last" about two years. (Once again, for me, two years is "plenty.")
I do not mean to say that any of my batteries would ever be considered "trash" after only 100 cycles. What I mean to say is that any such batteries might get relegated to a less demanding application, if they were indeed ever demonstrated as being no longer capable of holding a charge near their original rated capacity. (But, in reality, I cannot see such a thing ever happening at only 100 cycles, no matter which type Eneloop I choose.)
So, my point is that whether you "invest" in standard Eneloops, or Eneloop Pros, I think that the difference in cost between the two type batteries becomes highly trivialized; so long as you assume you are really going use whichever battery type you have selected, at least a 100 charge and discharge cycles.
And, having written all the above, I am now going to attempt to keep my final conclusion as succinct as possible: Would you rather have a bird in hand, or two in the bush?
In other words:
Do you really care all that much about relatively small (given amortization) price differences, and the relatively "distant" rewards of potentially long battery cycle life?
(Which, in my personal case, I doubt whether I am likely to ever live to enjoy? And, even if I did, wouldn't the cost of batteries reveal themselves to be fairly minor within the greater scheme of things?)
Or, would you prefer to enjoy the longest runtimes "that I know of" from an LSD NiMH battery on a "day-to-day" basis, right now? (Since you know, for certain, that you can immediately "benefit" from those longer runtimes, beginning with today?)
In my opinion, "Let the future take care of itself." (And for me, this was not such a difficult decision to make.)
Batteries are the true lifeblood of any flashlight. Why would you ever spend tens, hundreds, or perhaps even thousands of dollars, on flashlights; and then "skimp" on the cost of their batteries? (To me, that just doesn't make any sense.)
I welcome any and all comments.
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