White LED bin for outdoors

[CroMAGnet]

I remember there being better tint choices for outdoor use in green grass or wooded areas but I cant remember which bin code and why.

Anyone here remember was it the blue tinted white LEDs made leaves look artificial? Or ???

Thanks for reading

 

[cratz2]

Keep in mind, the tint bins are still 'ranges' and not absolutes.

Personally, generally, I've found examples of most tint bins to have some usable examples but the whitest and most neutral Lux I've ever seen is the TW0K that another forum member put into a BOG module I bought. It is really excellent. It's funny though... I have an X0 and a UW0K that 'seem whiter' than the TW0K but with the TW0K, I can see differences between two different greens or two different tans.

I think the V1 (or possibly the X1) is the bin someone stated tended to work the best outdoors.

Still, what I would recommend would be to buy 5 of whichever bin you decide on and trying them all out and keeping the best.

 

[PhotonFanatic]

I believe it was andrewwynn that first pointed out how buch better the green/yellow tinted LEDs worked when viewing vegetation at night. Might try searching under his name.

 

[dim]

Though I can't be certain, my best guesstimation, by comparisons against charts and the like, I think that the tint of my Gerber LX 3.0 falls squarely in the X1 range. While against the White Wall, my LX3 can appear a bit "minty" when compared to a cooler toned light and more "gold" when shone by itself in the dark with with night adjusted eyes, outdoors, shone against foliage and other organics of browns, greens, yellows and to some extent reds, the, presumably, X1 tint of my LX3, while not quite a vibrant as an incan, simply blows away cooler toned Luxeons. Colors look like colors!! - and not the washed out, almost monochrome grayscale that, say, a YA renders.

73
dim

 

[winny]

Someone else should tell you what bin to choose, because I have only tried limited number of different bins. The angry-blue you get on most cheap 3 W Luxeons does not render vegetation very nice IMHO.

Anyhow, no matter what bin you choose you are stuck with a moderate CRI (color rendering index) of 70-85 with Luxeons so certain colors will be incorrectly rendered and some will be over-rendered. Over-rendering can be a good thing sometimes but if you want to see vegetation like it "should" look, in daytime (although the sun is not perfect at this either), you want as high CRI as possible.
In short, all Luxeons will make your leaves look more or less artificial but some are better than others.

Considering what you have to choose between, I would +1 on what PhotonFanatic says, to get over-rendered yellow and green tones.

 

[wasBlinded]

The V1 or V0 tint bins are the best for outdoors IMO. In side-by-side comparisons, my V1 tint light gives a much more pleasing rendition of foliage than my X0 and W0 tinted lights.

 

[UnknownVT]

wasBlinded wrote: "The V1 or V0 tint bins are the best for outdoors IMO. In side-by-side comparisons, my V1 tint light gives a much more pleasing rendition of foliage than my X0 and W0 tinted lights."

Some might not want to hear this - but often I find that ye olde incandescent seem to show things a LOT better for me outdoors among foliage.

I do realize that there is some loss in color rendition especially with yellow -
but practically speaking outdoors we are not looking at fine detail close up - but viewing things mostly over 6-12 feet away - if not further.

Shining my "best" tinted Lux LED lights on trees I find a Xenon incandescent like the Streamlight Scorpion (actually pretty yellow) just seems to show better contrast and definition - for me - and it's not just because of intensity/brightness - as my Nuwau Q3 on a 3.6V RCR123 and the LightHound V3 3watt single 3.6V RCR123 easily rival the Scorpion and seem brighter due to their more concentrated side-spill corona. Of course YMMV

 

[asdalton]

Shining my "best" tinted Lux LED lights on trees I find a Xenon incandescent like the Streamlight Scorpion (actually pretty yellow) just seems to show better contrast and definition - for me - and it's not just because of intensity/brightness - as my Nuwau Q3 on a 3.6V RCR123 and the LightHound V3 3watt single 3.6V RCR123 easily rival the Scorpion and seem brighter due to their more concentrated side-spill corona. Of course YMMV

I don't know about the LightHound V3, but the Nuwai Q3 has a much less intense beam than the Scorpion, as measured by lux at equal distances. That's the reason why the Scorpion performs better outdoors.

As I keep pointing out again an again, it is pointless to speculate about spectrum effects unless you are comparing two lights that have equally intense beams.

 

[UnknownVT]

asdalton wrote: "I don't know about the LightHound V3, but the Nuwai Q3 has a much less intense beam than the Scorpion, as measured by lux at equal distances. That's the reason why the Scorpion performs better outdoors."

Please -

I was very specific about the Nuwai being on 3.6V rechargeable RCR123 -
and even gave a link

Nuwau Q3 on a 3.6V RCR123

I do know the Nuwai Q3 on primary 3.0V CR123A is not quite as bright as the Scorpion.

Please also take a look at the link about
"Practical" Beamshots
and judge for yourself

 

[Chop]

This is a subject that has been discussed many times over. I remember it being a hot topic when I first joined CPF. This was at a time when color binning meant almost nothing and you could get a greenie, even if you had a "3" color bin.

The last really good batch of Lux Is that I got were a bunch of Q3J stars. The color of the light that they put out was best characterized as being "creamy." White with a little yellow in them. These performed really well outdoors.

These days, the results that I got with the Q3Js are about the same with most of the X1 bins that I've seen. I've been pushing this bin for a long time now, for lights that are going to be used outdoors. The warmer tint does definitely lend itself to better color rendition when viewing vegetation and such.

IIRC, even Don had a similar opinion regarding luxeons with warmer tints. As long as you aren't white wall hunting, an X1 bin should do you nicely.

 

[CroMAGnet]

Thanks everyone for all the feedback. I wish the search function worked for all the old CPF threads. I have spent plenty of time reading through the archives section on all sorts of subjects.

I've had the UX1K star that I've been itching to use somewhere for a long time now. I was considering a simple mod in my Q3 DD but I don't like the aggressive Q3 body. The only thing I can think of is a new Light Engine for my Aleph system. :shrug:

Any ideas??

 

[cratz2]

Personally, the X1s I've had have been not ideal for outdoor use in my experience though they seem to be consistantly brighter than most other bins.

My two favorite Lux III Magmods are both regulated and in 2C hosts. I have a UW0K on an nFlex and a UX1L on a Wiz2 at 937. The UW0K isn't quite as good as my aforementioned TW0K-modded BOG module which in my opinion, is as good as LEDs get. The UX1L certainly has trouble distinguishing between two shades of green. Actually, it has trouble distinguishing between dark green and dark blue while the UW0K has no such troubles.

Having said that, the UW0K at a full 1000ma absolutely is not as bright as the UX1L at 937ma.

But having said that with a light such as a Lux III in a Mag, I would rather have a bit more brightness than the absolute best color rendition. I mean, I'm more likely to be using either of these lights past 10 yards than within 10 yards... Within 10 yards, I think color recognition is a lot more important. Maybe if I was law enforcement or security where I needed to distinguish between a black shirt and a dark blue shirt, then the color recognition at a distance would be more important.

It all comes down to this... Regardless of what bin is supposed to be best at what, that TW0K in the BOG module leaves me utterly happy and I'll absolutely NEVER get rid of it.

 

[asdalton]

I was very specific about the Nuwai being on 3.6V rechargeable RCR123 -
and even gave a link

Nuwau Q3 on a 3.6V RCR123

I do know the Nuwai Q3 on primary 3.0V CR123A is not quite as bright as the Scorpion.

Please also take a look at the link about
"Practical" Beamshots
and judge for yourself

All of that is irrelevant. The measured performance is what matters.

Streamlight Scorpion
Output: 58 (about 83 lumens)
Lux at 1 m: 4418

Nuwai Q3
Output: 19 (about 27 lumens)
Lux at 1m: 600

So, does running the Q3 on a 3.7 V battery result in the same lumen output as the Scorpion? I doubt it, but for the sake of argument let's say that the Nuwai Q3 in that arrangement is actually emitting 83 lumens.

For a fixed emitter/reflector arrangement, lux at a fixed distance scales directly with lumen output. The beam spot of the overdriven Q3 would be 600*(83/27) = 1844 lux. That's only a little better than Surefire E2L, and much less than the Scorpion. Even if the Nuwai Q3 can be driven hard enough to emit as much light as the Scorpion, the Scorpion will produce a hotspot that's 2.4 times as intense.

So unless your overdriven Q3 is emitting around 200 lumens, then I stand by my statement that the better performance of the Scorpion is due to its more intense beam.

 

[UnknownVT]

asdalton wrote: "All of that is irrelevant. "

Scorpion..........................................................Nuwai Q3 with RCR123

Exact same exposure, taken within minutes of each other,
absolutely no camera or post processing trickery.

"Practical" Beamshots

EDIT to add -
I just did these side-by-side comparison beamshots.
Streamlight Scorpion with new bulb (to eliminate any question about underperformance) and new CR123A primary batteries.

Scorpion Xenon (new bulb + new CR123A's) vs. Nuwai Q3 with RCR123

 

[cratz2]

Guys... guys... he asked about LEDs for outdoors and this has turned into an incand vs LED thread. I have the utmost respect for the both of you but not only are you needlessly bickering, but this has strayed considerably from the intent of the thread!

Even though I did have a nice little Q3 with a TW0J that I ran on an R123 that was pretty nice outdoors.

I will say that overall, I prefer incands to the best LEDs for best green/tan/brown color rendering. The TW0K-modded BOG I mentioned, even though it looks outstanding compared to any other LED light I've used, looks very hot and blue compared to even a $10 Dorcy Spyder. Still, when I'm out in the middle of nowhere, I'd like to have at least one (if not two) LED lights as backup to whatever primary light I may be carrying... which is still usually an LED Magmod.

 

[VidPro]

RGB
nothing i have seen to date looks as visually colorfull as a full RGB led spectrum. not very possible with SPOT shooting, but it is something to think about. get all the colors out, and you have all the colors there.
rgby would be the most full spectrum.
i was surprised how all the bushes and thier flowers looked after traveling the exact same path with "white" leds.

 

[Anglepoise]

The *X1* is my best 'outdoors' LED.
When I first saw it on a white wall I was very disappointed and even contacted the builder as to its perceived yellow/green tint.
However in real use , this tint has turned out to be excellent and the contrast with outdoor foliage etc is superb.

 

[UnknownVT]

Anglepoise wrote: "The *X1* is my best 'outdoors' LED.
When I first saw it on a white wall I was very disappointed and even contacted the builder as to its perceived yellow/green tint.
However in real use , this tint has turned out to be excellent and the contrast with outdoor foliage etc is superb."

I "think" I see better contrast and definition with lights that are yellow tinted/biassed.

This is one of the reasons I still use my first (gen2) MJLED (which has a distinct yellow/green tint) over what normally be considered a much better tinted MJLED (also gen2 - my #2)

MJLED #2 & #1 (both gen 2's)

Unfortunately yellow/green is an a ugly color - some refer to it as "dog-urine" green - and even I wince when I first turn on the light after a more blue or even neutral tinted light.

But (even if I'm fooling myself) I think I see better with it - that's why despite having 4 other MJLED's (gen3's and super MJLEDs) I still put this yellow/green MJLED #1 in the Mini MagLite and use it.....

However in the end despite now having some really bright and nicely tinted LED lights - I continue to think I see better using an incandescent, and it is not just the difference brightness levels.

MJLED #1 and new standard MiniMag new bulb, fresh batteries -

There's a slight mistake in the above beamshot - the overall spill/corona on the standard incand MiniMag is smaller because I left the protective rubber hexagonal bezel cover on (you can see it by looking at the actual flashlight head)

 

[John N]

I remember there being better tint choices for outdoor use in green grass or wooded areas but I cant remember which bin code and why.

Anyone here remember was it the blue tinted white LEDs made leaves look artificial? Or ???

Thanks for reading

I have an HDS U85 which I can only characterize it's tint as WHITE. I compared it to my E2e which in comparison appeared downright yellow (although, w/o the U85 to compare it to, it looks pretty white).

Viewing the big cedar trees outside my house, the E2e certainly looks more "natural". The funny thing, is I suspect this is more a case of what we are used to than what is more "correct".

In any case, I suspect most people will find a more yellowish or "warm white" more what they are used to.

My understanding is the HDS "GT" option is more of a warm white for example.

Personally, I'm happy with "white". I figure in some cases it takes a bit of getting used to, but in others, having a more white light can be handy.

YMMV.

-john