? - Why do I even NEED an incandescent now?

[Orion]

I have had incandescent lights for a while, until my introduction into LEDs. Even then, I was just using the 5mm LEDs, and while it was a fairly decent light, it wasn't as bright as my incandescents, like my Energizer Arc White, for example. And I have to admit that, even after my first 1 watt LED, low dome, with the original optic, it was pretty bright, but not like the incandescents.

Fast forward to the present.

I recently received, on trade, a 6AA Double Barrel incandescent from Energizer, and a Blaster II. The quality of light from the Blaster II is SO far superior to the sickly yellow beam from the Double Barrel that it isn't even funny. And doing the "Shine it out the back door towards the trees" test, the Blaster II is superior there too.

Whenever I get a 5 watt LED put in my 2D [with 6AA] Maglite, there's no question as to which flashlight is superior.

Long ago, for a pocket light, I carried a UK 2AAA side by side flashlight. It WAS pretty bright, and really still is for it's size, but my Arc LS kicks it's butt in that category.

So, why would I even spend the money on anything incandescent? Okay, the light from my Legend LX is pretty good, but I'd rather have the 5 watt in the Maglite.

LEDs - Good power consumption, a better color of light output, long lasting (no need to change a burned out LED), ...

Any thoughts? Do I start chucking my incandescents in the trash, or do they still have their purpose? I'll keep the Arc White because of it's CCFT, but not for it's energy draining PR base bulb!

 

[avusblue]

I think you're right on. That's why I'm selling my 6P's. (Shameless plug.)

But the reason to need incandescent now is that they are still significantly cheaper. Still far better bang for the buck (or "lux for the bux", to plagiarize the person who said it first). You still have to pay WELL over $100 to duplicate performance of a 6 volt lithium incandescent. And the LEDs really don't have truly comparable long distance throw, yet.

So I'm keeping my G2 for posterity sake, and that'll be my only remaining incandescent . . . . other than my 2 million candlepower Brinkmann spotlight /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Dave

 

[Orion]

Okay, so initial cost is a positive characteristic of the incandescent, as well as the throw of the more powerful lights.

I have to agree with you on the light output of the spotlight catagory, though. It's hard to beat those 1M, 2M, candlepower or better spotlights. That's a lot of photons coming out of those things. The one I have is great, and it's not even one of the POWERFUL spotlights out there [not the Maxibeam, that's just insane in pricing].

 

[ikendu]

Powerful spot lights. That's it.

My 3-LED Attitude already meets 95+% of my needs for flashlight of any kind. It is only those times when I want to light up something at a distance that I need an incandescent.

IMHO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ANYTHING LED over the 3-LED lights is past the value/usefullness barrier (although the Streamlight 4AA 7-LED is pretty good too). My Attitude cost me $16. I have around $45 in my BB400+MM and it is almost never used.

If I want more than the light the 3-LED Attitude puts out...I'll use a relatively cheap incandescent (like a $9 Rage or a $25 Surge). Since I don't use these BRIGHT lights very often, even the relatively expensive replacement bulbs will hardly ever be used. Keep your Brinkmann LX and just smile for those few times you really need it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think it would be smart for some of the incandescent light makers to recognize that they will be used more and more for spot lighting things at a distance and start producing pre-focused "really tight" lamp module just for this purpose. I'd love to have one for my Rage like that!

 

[Smaug]

I did a post just like this a couple of weeks ago, which is why you might not get the response you're after.

The LED lights that equal the brighter incandescents are very expensive and they are still power hungry, though not as much so as the incans of the same caliber. For example, how long will a set of batteries go with your Mag 2D body and a 5W LS LED? Not (if any) longer than the incan with the 2Ds.

Once the prices and newer designs come out for LEDs, esp. the Luxeons, it will be a different world. Mark my words, in the not-too-distant future, there will be no use for incandescent bulbs. Everything will be solid state. OK, maybe a few uses, kind of like vacuum tubes have a few uses today, but that's it.

Light bulbs have been produced for dozens of years, and that is why they are so cheap. Once LEDs have been produced for that long and in the same variety, they will be cheap too.

 

[brightnorm]

[ QUOTE ]
Smaug said:
...Once the prices and newer designs come out for LEDs, esp. the Luxeons, it will be a different world. .

[/ QUOTE ]

Growing efficiency is the key. Right now a BIN-W 5W luxeon ranges from 147.7-192 lumens, averaging 170lu. That translates into an average of 34lu/W, far beyond the most efficient mini-incandescent. At the optimum 190lu/5W the figure is 38.4lu/W. A 5W driven at 1.5W would equal the E2E/MN03 at 60 lumens, and outrun it by a factor of 2-4.

The second remaining hurdle to overcome in a small 5w light is long-throw ability. It is not yet established whether this can be achieved within the bezel diameter of a standard size 2x123 light.

The PM6 McGizmo/Bulk/bear project may yet surprise us.

Brightnorm

 

[MR Bulk]

Why do you need an Incand.? You don't.

Avusblue said, "And the LEDs really don't have truly comparable long distance throw, yet"...Uh, I don't think so:

http://darkgear.com/mrbulk/spaceneedle2.htm

And we are talking LED technology still in its relative infancy. Wait till they get Really revved up...

 

[V8TOYTRUCK]

I posted a thread in the Cafe a few weeks ago stating I will never buy another incandescent flashlight again and I am sticking to it! ( Must get L4!)

 

[jtivat]

There is still not an LED that will give you the same feeling as holding the SF M6 in the pitch black.

 

[The_LED_Museum]

I was watching Digimon today, and the group ran into a DARK cave, and *nobody* had a flashlight - LED or incandescent.
So I'm sitting there in front of the TV, going "Why the f*** doesn't anyone have a f*****g flashlight?!?"
Made me want to reach for a Space Needle II or a SureFire G2 CPF-50 or my new SCE 50mW green laser and shoot it through the TV, even though I knew it wouldn't do them any good. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

 

[FalconFX]

If infancy stage means a 5W LS (like the SNII), I'd hate (or absolutely love... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) to see what we'll get when Lumileds goes into it's Toddler stage...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Puberty stage is up the corner (here's hopin' for a 25W+ LS)...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Jtivat, Charlie's test for his SNII yielded 216 lumens... An M6 LOLA is 225 lumens... Quite close...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[keithhr]

I think highly focused light always registers higher lumens output but not necesarrily higher total light output. My 1 watt Blaster II has a highly focused bright hot spot, but when unfocused puts out no more light than the arc lsh-p. When led lights, I have more led's than incandescent, out throw the latter, I will cheerfully buy only led lights. If I was totally in the dark somewhere, really needing to put some serious light on something,)possibly at distance) I would reach for my tigerlight

 

[Bill.H]

I agree, you probably don't. The only 2 I have left will soon be LED (Everled in a 3D Mag and an Elektrolumens 5W Fraen kit in a 5D Mag), and I don't see myself ever purchasing any more POB (plain ole bulb) lights - unless you count the TwinTask 3C (I don't count it since the LEDs greatly outnumber the single xenon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ). Frankly, the heavy battery usage and yellow light makes them obsolete for probably 95% of flashlight usage. There is certainly no reason to buy the old "standard 2D + bulb" lights anymore.

Maybe we should all go buy some Solitaires and 99 cent supermarket specials and put them in storage for our grandkids to sell to collectors. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[jtivat]

[ QUOTE ]
FalconFX said:
Jtivat, Charlie's test for his SNII yielded 216 lumens... An M6 LOLA is 225 lumens... Quite close...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Not to nit pick but it is 250L and the HOLA is 500L /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Also are we talking 216L out of the LED or out the end of the light?

 

[FalconFX]

You'll have to ask Charlie for a definitive answer on that. But I'm assumin' if it's a spherical test with the light intact, that it's out the business end as opposed to just out the LED...

 

[brightnorm]

[ QUOTE ]
keithhr said:
I think highly focused light always registers higher lumens output but not necesarrily higher total light output.


[/ QUOTE ]

Keithr,

Is that possible? I thought lumens was the total output. When I tested the SN II against that incandescent "wolfpack" I deliberately measured indirect light in order to compare "total output" which I was equating with lumens.

This is interesting and a little disturbing because it might suggest inaccuracies in my own testing assumptions. I really hate not knowing. I'd appreciate clarification on this either from you or anyone who can discuss it.

I'm in no way challenging your statement, I just need more information to settle this for myself.

Brightnorm

 

[FalconFX]

You have to distinguish between a reflectorized lumens output and a spherical lumens output of each bulb... Two different beasts, of which the former will register lower lumens due simply to lost light at the rear of the emitter, and through sidespill that may not hit any sides of the reflector at all.

Otherwise, I'd expect something like a bounceback light to be a good indication of total lumens output (i.e. BN's testing of the spill of light from a wall)...

A highly focused light will always register a higher CANDLEPOWER reading, but not necessarily a higher LUMENS reading... That's the golden twist...

 

[keithhr]

Norm, i'm just using the wrong terminology, not challenging your testing, are you kidding me? Your the man who's reviews I save in my special documents file. What I was referencing was the hot spot light output versus the wider dispersed beams being able to have more total light but register less in the hot spot. It's like my old surefire 9P having greater light output with the hola, but not throwing as far as my Pelican M6 because of a more focused beam. Norm, relax, i'm still kind of new at this, just a vocal flashaholic who has purchased what I want. My favorite lights in no special order , Spaceneedle II(2nd), Elektrolumens BLaster VI, McLux, Arc LSH-P, E2E.

 

[avusblue]

[ QUOTE ]
MR Bulk said:
Why do you need an Incand.? You don't.

Avusblue said, "And the LEDs really don't have truly comparable long distance throw, yet"...Uh, I don't think so:

http://darkgear.com/mrbulk/spaceneedle2.htm

And we are talking LED technology still in its relative infancy. Wait till they get Really revved up...

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, I defer to the knowledge of a master builder. I do have (and really enjoy) a SNII, and it's darn bright and yes, it throws.

What will really reveal if LEDs are there yet is comparing similar form factors -- like the 5W PM6 mod and the L4, against the comparable sized compact incandescents. How do you think they'll do on throw . . . . for example, lighting up a street sign or house number from your car from 30 yards away?

Dave

 

[JonSidneyB]

Sorry to sound like this. Why does it seem that everyone wants throw. Now sometimes I want throw but I usually find a medium to flood beam that is clean to be most usful to me 80-90% of the time.