Why don't Surefire mention what LEDs they use?

[Crenshaw]

Because the value of surefire flashlights is greater than the sum of its parts.

very well put...

although, it can work reverse ways as well..sum of parts greater then light.

I for one always thought its abit rich to be saying they only use "the best" when they are consistently having problems with tint and what not. :duck:

That said, i love my surefires, but none of them are stock anymore....and i like them a whole lot! there is something about the shine of a HA C2, or the knurling of an L1 that just feel good. To me, the mid range surefires just seem to be screaming to let out more lumens.

It always bugs me though, which cree do i have in my ML1?

Crenshaw

 

[Mercaptan]

Then, I guess when I buy a vehicle, I shouldn't ask (or know) about the engine? When I buy a gun, I shouldn't ask what caliber it is? When I go out to eat, I shouldn't know what they are serving, I should just "take what they give me"?

I wouldn't say those are really comparable things. Asking what caliber a gun comes in is more like demanding what type of battery a torch will use. Food is also fairly transparent when it comes to components as well.

Do we really need to know what type of LED they use? They have lumen ratings which are spot-on, if even under-estimating the total output.

And I will agree that their runtimes are pretty absurd, but they make the stipulation of appreciable light - as long as you can see X object and Y distance, the runtime is still valid.

 

[WadeF]

I wonder if SF stated they were using Cree XR-E P4 bin, or Q2 bin, if people would say "I'll wait until they use Q5, or R2". Maybe SF doesn't use the latest and greatest bins, as long as they can get what they feel is exceptable output from an older bin, like P4's, Q2's, etc. If they want 65, 80, 100, etc, lumens out the front they don't need a Q5 or R2 to do that, but if they state they are using anything but the latest and greatest bins maybe that would lose them sales, although I doubt the majority of their customers would care what bin LED is in their lights, it would just be a select few. However, a select few can cause bad PR if they are running around saying "SF uses older, lower efficient, LED bins in their lights!"

So if SF doesn't tell us exactly what they are using they are free to sell lights with any bin Cree they feel like using, as long as it meets their min spec. I wouldn't be surprised if there were L1 Cree's with P4's, and now there are some with Q2's, Q5's, etc. This may explain why my L1 Cree is brighter than my E1B when the L1 is rated at 65 lumens and the E1B is rated at 80 lumens.

Of course this is just speculation. I just think giving LED specs isn't important to SF. As long as their flashlights perform up to the specs and standards they want and their customers expect, that's good enough. I'm perfectly fine with that. SF will sell something that has proven itself in their testing. If you want the absolute latest and greatest with no hidden specs, with no real track record, you can buy other brands.

 

[Size15's]

One can't assume when exact bin(s) SureFire is using. For one thing bin usage is subject to change as improvements and availability improve so information is often out of date.

With some 3000-5000 thousand lights shipped each day SureFire are a big player in the flashlight market even before you factor in the prestige that LED manufacturers get for supplying SureFire.

Of course SureFire work more closely with LED manufacturers at various times. With LumiLeds for the DARPA project and SureFire designed an LED for SSC to make for them.

Why is it not mentioned? As previously noted the LED brand and bin are not important to anybody other than flashaholics. SureFire has announced new partnerships in press releases etc so they do give some details - it's just not worth of putting in the specs

 

[LukeA]

Of course SureFire work more closely with LED manufacturers at various times. With LumiLeds for the DARPA project and SureFire designed an LED for SSC to make for them.

Are you saying that it's Surefire's fault that the P7 has such a poor design (4p) or is there another LED?

 

[Taboot]

Besides all the reasons above, I also believe that what might seem to be a good marketing ploy, can have the opposite effect if that component falls out of favor. For instance, let's say Surefire states "Our new UAB3 has an Initech Ultra 5000 Turbomaxx LED!" Two months later, everyone is using the Acme Devastator LightSlap 6000 and the U5000TM is considered a wimp. Now they're stuck with a marketing strategy where they're touting a "has been" 2000 lumen LED.

 

[Size15's]

Are you saying that it's Surefire's fault that the P7 has such a poor design (4p) or is there another LED?

It's not the P7. SureFire had the LED designed for a completely different application.

 

[stitch_paradox]

IMO, it has something to do where the LED is made. I think SF is still sticking to US made LEDs. And LEDs are made here and abroad regardless of what brand, one example is the new Nitecore light, although they are using just one brand of LED in one of their lights there are two versions of it made in 2 different countries, I think the yellow led is made in the US whereas the dark led is made in China ( correct me if I'm wrong). LED manufacturers can decide overnight if they will make their product here or abroad, and SF must also make a quick choice too for replacement LEDs. If SF will disclose every LED they use it will be a big problem for them if they suddenly choose to change LED producers. For one hey will have to change every packaging they have and that goes as well for their print ads.

As for knowing what products you buy, I agree with that. But like what other member here said, the majority of SF buyers don't really care about what kind of LED they are using. Heck I didn't even know there are so many types of LEDs until I joined CPF. I think what matters to SF is quality of the LED, where it is manufactured, and if it will comply to the standards and specification for intended light. Heck If I but a car I don't even ask for the brand of the headlight lamps.

 

[cave dave]

I was in a chain sporting good place the other day and they had the original "ribbed" 19 lumen Kl1 head for $59 in the glass cabinets with the other "premium" stuff.

If they announced changes maybe they would have trouble getting rid of old stock.