Why is SureFire the only one? - You views please!

[Size15's]

Comments and views welcome!

People are beginning to see why I have so much trust and respect for SureFires - the products, the people and the company.

You don't see the "PK" of MagLight or StreamLight etc here asking us for our views, requirements, AND responding to them, allowing us to activily help in the evolution of products.

Why? I ask YOU!

It's not as if everything SureFire does is perfect so they don't need to worry about complaints and such. Infact, I get the impression that without complaints etc SureFires wouldn't and couldn't get better.

Other companies may get some pretty harsh comments, especially to start with, but they'll get a whole lot of respect (from me atleast) if they weather the storm, and start working with customers to design better, more useful products.

Perhaps they see SureFire as a company they can't win against, and while I think that's true on many issues, there is not, and can never be "the one best flashlight", and I want to see companies working with us to provide us with illumination tools for our varied requirements and situations.

What do you think?

Thanks!

Al

 

[Glow Bug]

I am pretty new to this forum and like the discussions immencely.

I have liked Surefire products for a long time. Mainly for their outstanding performance and superb craftsmanship. I own the 9n with the turbo head, 8x, and a newly converted 6p to use the Luxeon Star with a regulated power supply (Thanks Gadget). I have five 10x lights ordered for my friends and me.

To have PK responding and listening to people who really treasure lighting tools on this forum shows me he is genuinely interested in making sure Surefire remains on top.

Thanks PK for being willing to look, listen, and respond to the many great ideas that are presented here. We are all looking forward to your new releases!

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I totally agree with Al's observations. I have spoken with representatives from other flashlight manufactures who shall remain nameless and was blown off. SureFire is involved with those who use their products and having them help to improve their products.
I am currently involved with prototype testing of the clickie cap that SureFire is developing. I'm no one special, just an average leo; however, I have been given the opportunity to help in improving an already great product.

 

[PeLu]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Size15s:
You don't see the "PK" of MagLight or StreamLight etc here asking us for our views, requirements, AND responding to them, allowing us to activily help in the evolution of products.

Why? I ask YOU!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually there are several people in connection with some lamp manufacturer and also very knowledgeable engineers. They all are already tired to answer the very same questions again and again.
Quoting one of them:

Educating the masses is a long and difficult process.

And some of them just don't care about flashaholics (which is not nice for us but very cost efficient .-)

And some others may just not know about this forum.

 

[recercare]

It's interesting that you all fancy SureFire THAT much. I don't understand it.

-You have to change batteries way too often on most models.
-They are extremely expensive (at least in Europe)
-Yes, they are obviously very solid and bright. However, why this need of almost undestructible flashlights? My impression is that most people use the E2 for simple tasks, like finding the way from the house to the garage. You don't need a rock-solid flashlight for that. A flashlight with cheaper materials, less candlepower and longer burntime would be a much better buy considering need/price/value.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:
It's interesting that you all fancy SureFire THAT much. I don't understand it.

-You have to change batteries way too often on most models.
-They are extremely expensive (at least in Europe)
-Yes, they are obviously very solid and bright. However, why this need of almost undestructible flashlights? My impression is that most people use the E2 for simple tasks, like finding the way from the house to the garage. You don't need a rock-solid flashlight for that. A flashlight with cheaper materials, less candlepower and longer burntime would be a much better buy considering need/price/value.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I need a lower powered long running flashlight then I'll go for one of my D Cell Maglites. And as far as using cheaper flashlights (and I don't consider a Maglite cheap, inexpensive for the most part, but not cheap) for the most they are unreliable and break way too easy.

Now as an LEO I am thankful for SureFire being around, non-LEOs have no idea how important proper lighting is to officer safety. Why do you think you get the Christmas tree behind you when a LEO stops you on a traffic stop, because light is something that we in my profession greatly appreciate and rely on. I am the proud owner of 5 SureFires and a MagCharger and numerous Maglites. I will not use any rayovac or energizer or fill in the blank type of cheap plastic flashlight, they are junk. I like having a small compact extremely bright flashlight that I can keep on my gunbelt because I have enough items on my belt that are heavy. I want a flashlight that is reliable. Now while I think a AA Maglite is a decent light, I don't want to be using it for LEO work. While AA Mag is long lasting, its not very bright. I prefer rechargeable flashlights for LEO work because for one its cheaper for me to be able to do so. Now while a lot of non-leos have taking a liking to SureFires, and what they use them for varies. I use mine primarily for LEO work, but like to have an E2 on me off-duty. A small bright light is a great defense tool, why because you can disorient someone with bright light up close. SureFires were initially marketed to LEOs and military types. The civilian market seems to have taken a liking to them to some degree as well, which is fine by me because the more people who buy SureFires, the better chance that SureFire will stay in business and continue to make new strides in pioneering smaller brighter, more effective lighting tools.

Simple solution, if you don't want to pay all that money and get a good quality flashlight fine, but don't gripe at those of us who do like our SureFires and don't mind paying to have a good solid quality flashlight.

 

[JoeyL]

My interest in the Sure Fire line is for three things:

-First they are the best combination of size and power. There are a lot of tasks that just require the best light you can have for a short time.

-Second they have the best beam quality bar none. Close up or far away there are no rings nor lines. I dont use it for the trash can. But if I need to know if someone has a gun in his hand or that spot on someones's shoulder is a skin cancer, I'm willing to pay for it.

-Third, if you just play with them, you realize their build quality is outstanding. They are not just tough, they are well designed and well machined.

I'm not rich. I drive a cheap car. I dont wear jewelry. But I have the best flashlights, pens and knives I can afford.

How does that saying go? "Own one and you'll understand"

 

[Size15's]

I'll use an 8NX for many "everyday/night/lowlight" tasks.

These is a beam quality issue here, and many of us value the beam quality and purity. It allows us to see more, and better, and more quickly.

There is a size issue here too, and many of us value the amazing amount of light we can get from such tiny flashlights.

I have such high expectations about the flashlight I use that I could not go back to other brands. I do not find SureFires that expensive to run. SF123As are cheap in bulk, and if you don't use 'em, they'll be good for years.

It's a respect issue for me. I don't like using tools from a companies I don't respect.

Of course SureFires are unsuitable for some tasks. The M3 LED Bezel will increase the variety of tasks SureFires can be used for.

If you need lots of light for a long time, without changing batteries, you can't get it from a small flashlight as far as I know.

I'd just like to have other companies' views etc espressed here too. I like an open and balanced perspective, and try to gather info from as many credible sources as possible.

Pelican & UKE etc may have reps in the diving forums I suppose?

Al

 

[recercare]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Simple solution, if you don't want to pay all that money and get a good quality flashlight fine, but don't gripe at those of us who do like our SureFires and don't mind paying to have a good solid quality flashlight <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Emeraldwolf: That was not my intention. I just don't think SF is such a good buy, and it's strange that you interpret it as a gripe. I am critical to SureFire flashlights, and CURIOUS why people buy them.

BTW, I do have some Energizer flashlights (Double Barrel, ArcWhite, Folding LED etc) and they have never let me down. So i disagree that they are crap.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:
Emeraldwolf: That was not my intention. I just don't think SF is such a good buy, and it's strange that you interpret it as a gripe. I am critical to SureFire flashlights, and CURIOUS why people buy them.

BTW, I do have some Energizer flashlights (Double Barrel, ArcWhite, Folding LED etc) and they have never let me down. So i disagree that they are crap.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll reiterate JoeyL's comment on SureFires: "Own one and you will understand."

 

[recercare]

Yep, i will buy one sooner or later, but haven't decided which model yet. I base my flashlightcollection on purpose/type and brand.

Purpose/type i need:
a. small incandescent
b. rechargeable
c. high-end lantern/headlamph with wide beam

Brands that are not in my collection, which i want to buy:
a. SF
b. Maglite
c. Niterider
d. Trek
e. Underwater Kinetics

So i guess that means:
**SureFire E2 for small incandescent. **Magcharger for a rechargeable.
**Niterider's Helmet HID or Trek 6000 or Underwater Kinetics Lightcannon 100 for a High end headlamp/lantern.

..agree??

 

[funk]

I don't think there is much question that SureFire makes outstanding lights - and I agree that they are probably worth the money for a lot of applications. I own several, and love them as everyone else does.

I would say that it is unfair to say that they are not expensive to run. Initial price is high + burn times are short, batteries are not cheap (most people are never going to buy in bulk), replacement modules are expensive etc and so on.

If you are in a flashlight forum - you should certainly own one, because the quality and care in construnction and beam makes all flashaholics giddy......... not sure what it does for normal people.

 

[lightlover]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emeraldwolf:
.......a lower powered long running flashlight then I'll go for one of my D Cell Maglites. ........... (and I don't consider a Maglite cheap, inexpensive for the most part, but not cheap) for the most they are unreliable and break way too easy.

...............<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Emeraldwolf, there was a "Topic: Mag-Lites and reliability / durability" @ http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000457
The general response was that they are pretty tough. I love the 3D Mag, and NONE of my various D cell Mag-Lites have ever broken, or let me down in terms of reliability.
What reliability / breakage problems did you have with them ?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by recercare:
It's interesting that you all fancy SureFire THAT much. I don't understand it.

-You have to change batteries way too often on most models.
-They are extremely expensive (at least in Europe)
......................<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I get my expensive 123's in *bulk*, (funk - you know it makes sense !! ) like the 12 pack on offer from SF itself.
I buy from Tim Flanagan in the States, because the UK prices are indeed alarming.

I had barely heard of SF's before joining this Forum.
Even after reading all the posts, I then somehow decided that all the member's praise for SF's had to be some kind of hype, (almost collective hysteria !!?? ).
But I decided that I would probably actually buy one, just out of flashlight-lovin' interest.

Then, by chance, I actually saw an M3 beam for literally 2 seconds.
The beam's colour (white) and quality (flawless) were revelatory. I'd actually never seen anything like it. I was converted to SureFires from that point, because - well, you get my meaning.

(I don't think that any other manufacturer has such consistent emphasis on the Quality of the light output ? )

Following that experience, as a starting point, I bought an E2.
It has the same beam quality, and a lovely build quality. Well worth the price. Not at all overhyped. And so small, it looks like a toy until you actually switch on to use it.

With both torches loaded with batteries, it's less than 10% of the weight of a 3D Mag. And it's twice as bright, 60 vs. 35 Lumens. (On a personal note, up to 100 metres, I consider it to be "say 4 times more effective" than a 3D Mag, because of the beam quality, and usefulness of the surround beam. Over ~120 metres, the 3D has a longer throw spot beam though.)

There are some problems with the E2 -
It's *waterprotected*, not fully waterproof.
There is no lockout feature for the switch.
It's not inexpensive to buy, or notably cheap to run.

But, it's always with me, as an otherwise superlative flashlight. It has on 3 occasions in the last two months been Truly invaluable.

Try one if you can - but I'm sure that if you buy one, you won't regret it.

For a re-chargeable, you could also consider the SF 8X option, or a 6P, with the KR2 conversion kit, which consists of a body extender, and a re-chargeable battery, etc.
(As well as the above, which I will have delivered soon, I'm still buying a Mag-Charger though ......)

In terms of adding a Mag to your collection, most people reckon the 3D, also available in a beautiful silver colour.

lightlover

 

[funk]

I agree - I buy in bulk as well - just saying that most normal people don't/won't.

 

[PeLu]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emeraldwolf:
I'll reiterate JoeyL's comment on SureFires: "Own one and you will understand."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bought my last Surefire some 10 years ago....
(any many other lights since then)

 

[Glow Bug]

Recercare,

I think you would be very happy with any of Surefire Rechargables with a smart charger. The initial high cost is all you will have to foot for a long time. Their is no battery cost to worry about. And you get a beam that you could not imagine. If you are worried about the batteries crashing at a time when you need the light most, have an E2 in your pocket for a backup just in case.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Perhaps, I was misunderstood by a few folks of my thoughts of Maglites. I like Maglites, I have a lot of them and after my SureFires they are the best flashlights out there. I was referring to the fact that Maglites are inexpensive but good quality. I think a lot of these other flashlight brands are junk especially the plastic ones. That's simply my opinion.

 

[Unicorn]

Surefires have the best balance of size, output, and of course beam quality. They are also quite durable. There is no other light the same size as the 9N that can match it's light output (the 8AX when the new high output lamp is released). The Streamlight Stinger is close, but it's still a bit less light, and the beam has the rings, and dark spot in the middle common to all focusable lights.
Surefires are known mostly for their lithium powered lights which is where the reputation for being expensive to operate comes from. This is not unique to Surefires though. The Streamlight Scorpion, HK UTL, Streamlight M3, and most others only have a 1 hour or so run time. Also Surefire does make a few rechargeable lights. The newest 10X probably has a light output unmatched by anything short of a handheld spotlight, and it has the lower powered/longer running second lamp.
The only Maglight I like is the AA Minimag. If I need more light than that I usually want the light from a full powered flashlight, such as a 9N or more. Unless I want my light to double as an impact weapon I'd rather carry something that is light and doesn't get in my way.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kogatana:
Emeraldwolf,
Was it you who just had a "makeover" done on your Magcharger? How is it functioning? "Ceteris paribus," I will be in NYC this weekend. If I have time, I will be visiting friends in Anne Arundel county (...I think I have that county name correctly). I sure do miss the soft shell blue crab sandwiches there in the DelMarVa area.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No sorry, I wasn't the one who had the makeover of my MagCharger, mine is still running fine, I forget which of our many members was the one who had their light madeover.
Yes Anne Arundel County is southwest of Baltimore/Baltimore County.
I've never been much for softshell crab sandwiches, I've always been partial to steamed crabs and crab soup and of course crab biscue. Now I'm hungry. Take Care Folks.

 

[JB]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So i guess that means:
**SureFire E2 for small incandescent. **Magcharger for a rechargeable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree on the E2. I have one

As for the rechargeable my vote goes to the UltraStinger. I have one of those too