Why the lure of rechargables over primaries....

[Pokerstud]

I am neither a novice or an expert in this field, but it is quite evident that a majority of all the posts I read deal with, in some aspect, the use of rechargable batteries over primaries. I have also seen the rise in flashlights that are " taylored " to rechargables. Is it all a matter of the " free lumens " characteristics? A case in point, as an example, I was told by a very reputable individual that the Lumens Factory Lamps were developed primarily to be used with rechargables. Yes, you can use 2 x cr123 in your 6P or WE Sniper or 3 x cr123 in your 9P or WE Raider, but using a couple 18500 or a 18650 is better.

I am asking this because I have always been a primary person. I have chargers and batteries that I have never used, as I never understood the lure. My 2 Panasonics in my Sniper go dead, I throw them out and put in 2 more. With an 18650 in my Sniper, I wait for the protection to kick in? Is my lamp as bright as it can be with primaries?

Just looking for some clarification I guess, maybe I can be convinced to convert.

 

[Kiessling]

You're not alone. I am a primary guy, too. Rechargeables suck for numerous reasons, and I won't be converted ever.
I have tried though. Didn't work. CR123 rule !! :devil:
bernie

 

[Pokerstud]

You're not alone. I am a primary guy, too. Rechargeables suck for numerous reasons, and I won't be converted ever.
I have tried though. Didn't work. CR123 rule !! :devil:
bernie

From the depths of the land of my fore fathers rises the voice of reason, Amen brother :candle:

 

[LEDcandle]

Without going into the 'green' aspect of rechargeables vs primaries (since charging also consumes energy and can be argued that rechargeables ain't all that green), I personally am a rechargeable guy.

CR123as here cost about US$2 per piece; rather expensive if you use an M6 or other 2-cell lights. Costs reach about US$100+ a month if your light is used everyday/frequently.

For those who use the light for 'fun', rechargeables give you the so-called 'guilt-free lumens' for just shining randomly.

It's just nice to know that for US$15, you have have a battery and charger setup that can keep going for 500 cycles (theoretically). Also, single 18650s are easier to handle than multiple CR123as, have great capacities and are relatively inexpensive.

I prefer CR123as over R123as, but I really like the 17s and 18s cause of capacity. Some people are just "FlashmAhholics" (as coined by another CPFer) as well and love to have all kinds of rechargeables and chargers, so it's another passion and not just a means to an end.

I will still load up primaries when I'm doing 'serious' stuff like if going on a long hike or going overseas etc....

 

[WildChild]

I'm a rechargeable guy but I keep a few backup primaries! But recently, I bought a SF E2L and G2L and those will probably only run on primaries! Great runtime on both and since the G2L will be a car backup light, no need for rechargeable there!

 

[Daekar]

I think both types of battery have their place, but I think rechargables really shine when used in lights they're particularly suited for. The Tiablo A8, for instance, has a flat-regulated output curve for several hours at high-output on a single 18650 because the circuit is optimized for it. My D-mini with 18650 tube will run for even longer with a flat curve. Rechargables also show their value when you use your lights more often. For instance, battery-sucking super-incans that have staggering lumen-ratings use a lot of power, and would cost the user a small fortune in CR123a cells every time it was used. However, with rechargables the initial investment in the cells and charger are quickly offset by the number of times they may be used and the overall cost in primary cells they avoid. Also - think about HID lights like the 24W Wolf-Eyes Boxer, or the AE Xenides... those are designed for the long term, and they're designed to be used frequently. The cost of running primary cells would quickly outstrip the cost of the lithium batteries and charger...

EDIT: I like to keep primaries in my 6P Defender to run the Malkoff dropin even though I could use RCR123a cells, and I keep a CR123a in my Lumapower M3 as well... I like the fact that they don't just die when the voltage protection kicks in, that they tail off and maintain a useful voltage for a long time, even if you're not getting full brightness out of them. Definitely use rechargables in my PT Apex and the rest of my Lumapower lights.

 

[LEDcandle]

I like the fact that they don't just die when the voltage protection kicks in, that they tail off and maintain a useful voltage for a long time, even if you're not getting full brightness out of them. Definitely use rechargables in my PT Apex and the rest of my Lumapower lights.

You can always use unprotected li-on rechargeables They will tail off too...

Risk of ruining the batt if drained too low? Well yeah, but the batt costs about $2 vs the CR123a which is around $1.50.

Only good thing is that capacities of the primaries in CR123a size are twice or more than that of R123as.

 

[LED61]

I would say if I was to use my light for a serious situation I'd use only primaries. But, how many of us just play with our lights once in a while ?

And, if you really think about it, I'll have my fully charged set of two 18500's in my WE raider and it'll be good for 40 minutes. Then, I'll have 123's standing by and just swap without a hassle when the 18500's are done.

 

[ja10]

I like using rechargables in most lights because I know I am always heading out with a full charge. My wife, for example, will grab a light but wouldn't ever take a spares carrier.

LiIons keep it simple for me. All my lights are always at full capacity.

 

[Pokerstud]

I appreciate the responses so far, everyone has their preferences and good arguments for their choice of batteries.

 

[Pokerstud]

I would say if I was to use my light for a serious situation I'd use only primaries. But, how many of us just play with our lights once in a while ?

And, if you really think about it, I'll have my fully charged set of two 18500's in my WE raider and it'll be good for 40 minutes. Then, I'll have 123's standing by and just swap without a hassle when the 18500's are done.

Do you run the 18500's in the Raider for a flatter discharge rate over the primaries?

 

[LED61]

Do you run the 18500's in the Raider for a flatter discharge rate over the primaries?

Yes, and more power with the LF EO 9. I've meaasured voltage under load with the great light at 7.8V running at about 2 amps. Primaries are incapable of providing such white light even when fresh. But, if it becomes necessary the swap is just as easy.

 

[the servents of twilight]

I use my lights a lot. I estimate that I was spending $100 a year on batteries. (AA batteries mostly $.25 each). That was the lure for me.

 

[jwl]

I also use both primaries and rechargeables. I use primaries (alkalines) in most of my LED lights and rechargeables (NiMh) in my incandescent lights.

Haven't gotten into Li-ion (yet) and alkaline D-cells can't supply enough current for the incandescent lights, neither can 6 alkaline AA's in my 2D Maglite provide enough power as the NiMh's can.

Only resently started using lithium primaries (CR123) in my Fenix lights.

 

[Eugene]

I had given up on rechargeable for a while due to issues, but as I gather more gear such as digital cameras, radios, etc I started going through bulk packs of batteries pretty often.
Since they finally how to make a decent rechargeable (Sanyo eneloop for example) the problems I had with them are now gone so they work as they should have all along.

 

[Curious_character]

The graphs in this essay show a good reason to use NiMH in favor of alkalines in most flashlight applications.

I have a couple of cheap direct drive lights which require the higher voltage of a Li-ion RCR123A cell. They're much dimmer when run with a primary cell. Most decent lights run equally well with either.

c_c

 

[jtr1962]

I've been into rechargeables ever since the days of 500 mAh Nicad AAs. Way back then rechargeables had definitely disadvantages so few people even tried them, let alone stuck with them. Nowadays low-self discharge NiMH all but obsolete the alkalines they replace. I don't have much experience with li-ions since I purposely avoid lights which use the 123 form factor. However, now that R123s are mainstream that may change.

The main attractions of rechargeables are:

1) Cost. If you use a device often then primaries can get very expensive fast. Just look at a light using 2 123s with maybe 1 hour run time. That light costs $2 an hour to run, even with cheap 123s. A set of R123s and a charger pays for itself in maybe 15 hours.

2) Convenience. Your cells are dead, simply pop in a set of recharged ones or put them on the charger and wait a bit. Most chargers nowadays charge in a few hours or less so this usually isn't a big deal if you plan a bit. Much better than running to the store if you're out of primaries, and then being stuck paying high retail prices.

3) Fewer leaks. Alkalines seem to leak all the time. I have yet to have a rechargeable leak. In general rechargeables are made to higher standards than primaries.

4) Less landfill, less energy usage. The energy required to charge a rechargeable is way less than what is needed to make a primary cell. Besides that, one rechargeable stops up to 1000 primaries from going into landfill. Being green may not be important to some people, but for those who care about stuff like this, rechargeables win hands down.

5) Lower internal resistance. Rechargeables power high-current devices way better than primaries. The difference is less with CR123s versus R123s, but it still exists. For alkalines versus NiMH or Nicad, the difference is huge.

In all honestly, now that low-self discharge cells like Eneloops make sense even in wall clocks I don't see myself ever buying primaries again. There's just no point to them any more. I just wish the rest of the general public would catch on. Those racks of alkalines near the registers in every store make me nauseous thinking about what a complete waste of money they are.

 

[Hodsta]

I'm with bernie & PS on this one, I always use primary SF123's.

HOWEVER - reading the SPY005 runtime thread makes me think I might be missing something, as the runtimes using a 800mA/h RCR compare to standard primaries are not just a "bit" better but significantly better. I had no idea that this may be the advantage of RCRs. If some one can enlighten to the science behind this then I would be well chuffed.

However, for rechargeable to be of benefit you need to remember to recharge them and have a stock of charged cells in rotation. I make my life complicated enough and for that reason would stick with primaries, always.

 

[winston]

Without going into the 'green' aspect of rechargeables vs primaries (since charging also consumes energy and can be argued that rechargeables ain't all that green), I personally am a rechargeable guy.

I think the green aspect has a lot to do with not having to process the depleted battery's chemicals (assuming the cells don't end up in landfill) after one cycle.
-Winston

 

[WildChild]

I'm the kind of green guy that just doesn't like to throw something that may be still good away. I hate to see all the "use once then throw away" stuff that is available today. That's just crazy! I started using NiMH with my Mp3 player with which I was eating an AA cell within two days. I've always been satisfied since then. Then I started to buy a few Fenix AA lights, with better runtime on NiMH, etc! I try to run the as many thing as possible with rechargeables! But I still always keep a large box of alkaline cells for devices that draw not much power like remote control, cordless mouse (1 year+ advertized lifespan on 1 set of alkaline), telephone ring (last set lasted 1 year), my Arc AAA-P and my girlfriend's Fenix E0 (batteries last over 6 months in those), and also in my Mag-LED 2D (over 100h useful battery life on 2D alkalines). Even with all those devices powered by alkalines, I don't know if I will use all my 12 AA box before the expiration date!

Recently I bought three lithium powered lights that may change things. SureFire E2L, Wolf-Eyes Defender II and SureFire G2L. I first bought the E2L because I knew it would run on some sort of rechargeables even if the runtime was less. But... I had it for over a month now, used it a lot at home and when camping and I EDC it almost everyday and I'm still on the first set of batteries and no drop of output yet. Thanks to the 9h flat regulation of this light + long advertised moon mode! Yet I'm not sure if I will ever get rechargeables for this one... With it, I got 16 spare CR123A batteries and I'm sure I have a supply for a long time. I also got the Wolf-Eyes light because it looked nice, was using 18650 rechargeables Li-Ion and also CR123A, and it has two levels. For this one I got rechargeable cells and I will use it mainly with them. But I still can use CR123A for backup purpose and the low level gives a long battery life on primaries (50h). More, this light runs better under regulation, on high, with rechargeable. If we take care of the low self-discharge of Li-Ion and the advantage using them, no reason to use this light only on primaries. Finally, I bought the G2L. 12h advertized runtime on 2 CR123A. I also heard it can accept 17670 cells, with probably a good runtime but this light will stay in car for backup purpose. Again, no rechargeable in this light.

What I found interesting also with lithium primaries is the long shelf life. Around 10 years for CR123A and 15 years advertized for AA lithium. When my supply of alkaline AA gets low, I will probably replace some with AA lithium since I use them in lights that gain much more runtime using them. And if I only need to buy alkalines in low quantities, at least here in Canada, there isn't much more cost added in buying lithium batteries. Alkaline bought in a box of 12 AA cost around $11 CAD (almost 1$ per cell) and 4 Energizer lithium AA cost around $19 CAD (almost 5$ per cell). Since I can probably get the Energizer lithium for a much lower price over the Internet, there is an advantage using them. For example, my Fenix L2T has a 3 times as long total runtime on high with lithium, 4 times 1/2 better runtime under regulation. For the L2D-CE, almost 4 times better runtime on lithium on high, and on turbo, the light doesn't even regulate on alkaline! And runtime on NiMH matches almost the runtime on lithium! So with these lights, lithium backup and NiMH main use.