Why you no longer own an HDS

[archimedes]

It's still all good ... lovecpf

 

[thermal guy]

I edc an hds every day. However, I also edc a fenix pd35. Two total different animals in every respect. When I need a lot of light the fenix comes out for everything else I use my hds. There is something about these lights that just feels right.i don't feel they are to big to carry all day long and I know it will work when I hit the button. My fenix is a great light but not in the same ballpark. Think a Ruger single action vs a freedom arms single action. If you have had both you know what I mean.

 

[bansuri]

I still own one but I don't EDC it.
Back in the day I was fine with letting it bounce around in the bottom of my pocket like an over-filled roll of quarters, I'd never had a light that clipped to my pocket perfectly so clips didn't matter.
Then I discovered the perfect fit (for me) of the Zebralight SC62 and it really derailed my flashlight hobby for a while. I still carry the SC62 daily but have been dabbling in budget lights. They mostly sit in the drawer.
Cost was certainly a factor; when I first got into the hobby the Clicky and Twisty were each $100 and it seemed crazy that anyone would buy a $100 light, but... maybe someday?
Eventually got one of each, had fun modding them and selling them and doing it again. Back then we didn't have the wonderful tints or lumens per watt that are pretty standard today so emitter swapping was a must.
My salary certainly hasn't gone up 2.5x so it was hard to justify continuing once HDS hit production problems and started adjusting the price. No big loss, there are plenty of folks with more disposable income than me. The lights are worth the money if you've got it. What a cool light!

Regarding the ouput: Everyone has their own preferences but I think limiting the lights to ~1A is fantastic. Considering the battery and size it's a practical output that is appropriate (IMO!). We all know that you can't just have one light so if you need 1000 lumens for search and rescue then don't get this light. I have lights that break the 1k lumen mark but they won't do it for long and the stress on the electrical components is an unknown that may rear its ugly head at the moment I need a working light the most.
This is all just the opinion of an old nut, so take it with a grain of salt. e.g., I'm working on a single 7135 light for 350ma output as a self-inflicted limit to enjoy the amazing output of modern emitters when driven with such little power. My remaining HDS is a Legacy Clicky triple 219c that puts out enough light for most uses. Haven't been able to find any of the legacy clips so it stays in the house.

Paraphrasing what someone else said; If you're a flashoholic it's worth buying one to see if you like it. If not, they're easy to sell.
It says something that a mostly 1-man operation has been able to stay in business so long making such high quality lights. Change has been slow, as has been voiced thousands of times in the many, many threads devoted to HDS, but he's managed to keep it going despite impossibly cheap competition by sticking to his vision of what his lights should be.
(note - I haven't kept up with the goings on so not sure if it's still just him doing it all).
I'm hoping he brings back the $100 twisty,(sans contact wires)!

 

[Hogokansatsukan]

Which, upon reading the ENTIRETY of the thread is exactly NOT what this thread is -and coincidently (or not) - is exactly what every thread of this type turns into.

Rather, the majority of the responses have in fact been some sort of attempt by HDS owners and an "employee" to somehow try to justify the cost of said light. This happens in virtually every HDS thread where cost somehow is brought into the conversation; owners feel the need to continually justify (to themselves?) why they've spent such a high price for a light to simply use it as an every day carry light.

Given the the original question of the thread, all such posts by owners doing said justification should, IMO, be ignored.

I used to use the light when my life depended on it. Both in the field and training LEO's in low light shooting (nothing more dangerous than training a rookie with a loaded sidearm in the dark!) It doesn't now as I stopped doing that shilly sit. I gave both my friends sons one when one deployed to Afghanistan and the other to Iraq. I guess I'll have to somehow justify why I would spend that kind of money on young men who are not related me. Your attitude is noted, and may I suggest prince Valium or perhaps a keg of rum? As you have been around here, you know very well I owned HDS lights long before I ever met Henry, and only started working there in January to help with production delays, so to insinuate that all we are doing as owners and an "employee" of HDS is trying to justify why we spent so much money on a light... I think you have missed the mark. Now, if I am going to try to justify something, it will be the amount of time I have spent in my life dealing with Adam Henrys... which is why I left my previous profession but they still seem to keep popping up.

 

[Vesper]

No longer own mine, tho it was almost there, the following got to me:

1 - lack of good clip. Henry apparently doesn't like them so they were overlooked to the light's detriment.
2 - that wobbly tail-standing drove me bonkers.

Otherwise I thought it was better than most any challenger.

 

[HighlanderNorth]

My reasons:

1. Extremely expensive. I can buy a handful of nice Zebralights for the same price as one HDS. Shipping alone (to Canada) is almost as expensive as a Zebralight!

2. Mediocre output. Even though I don't often use 1000+ lumens on my lights, it's nice to have the option when I want it.

3. It seems optimized for CR123 batteries. Yes, I know there's some add-on rechargeable options, but they add even more to the already very high price.

4. I don't care if it's made in USA, since I don't live in the USA.

5. Slow delivery time. I'm not sure if this has been addressed, but there was a time when wait times were ridiculously long. That may be great for the company, but not so great for potential customers.

6. I don't need a light to last a lifetime, because in a few years technology will make it seem obsolete. Yes, I know it will still be a great light, but newer options will be better.

7. I fear there might be some hypnotic chemical on the coating of the light, which turns customers into rabid fanatics about the light. MiB tech?

Back in the 2011-2013 era, when I bought more lights than I would ever use(and subsequently gave away most), I can remember a thread here dedicated to the people who had ordered an HDS light, but had been waiting as long as nearly 2 years to receive it. I can remember there being many complaints about a lack of basic communication, as well as repeatedly broken promises as to when the lights would be shipped. The reasons had something to do with an inability to find a subcontractor(s) to produce a certain component(s). For some reason it had apparently taken well over 1+ years to find 'someone' who could construct the component in question.

For me, ^that would certainly factor in to my decision to buy one. I'm sure they are very durable lights, as they darn well should be for $269(which is $50 to $60 more than in 2013, a 25% increase on an already hefty price tag). For that much money, I would have to take into consideration the previous issues that I mentioned in my first paragraph above, and I'd have to know for SURE that if I ordered one, or if there was a repair needed, I wouldn't end up waiting several months(or years) for it.

 

[flatline]

I am not an ex-HDS owner but I think I can help the OP with some reasons why someone might have parted with their HDS.

The HDS is a relatively thick and heavy flashlight. It is not a light that will disappear into your pants pocket. I do occasionally carry mine in a jacket pocket, but 99% of my HDS carry is in a holster on my belt. Some folks don't tolerate holsters, so if you're one of those people, you might not have a comfortable way to carry an HDS every day. During the winter I always have a belt, but when it's hot and I'm not dressed for work, I will often carry a smaller, less massive light simply so that my shorts don't fall down.

My next observation only applies to the HDS clicky. Switching modes on a clicky requires a fair amount of button pushing. I don't generally notice it since my HDS is programmed to start in the mode that I use 90% of the time and when I do need more (or less) light, switching modes has become automatic. However, if you're someone who constantly changes modes, the clicky UI can become tedious, especially if you don't have a dexterous thumb. Obviously this isn't an issue for the rotary.

My last observation is that due to the size, weight, shape, texture, or whatever, people either love the way the HDS feels in their hands or they hate it. I've never had someone not form a strong opinion one way or the other when they use my HDS. My wife, for instance, will usually ask if I have another light she can borrow.

I think the last observation is the most important one. If you get to try one out and you don't absolutely love the way it feels in your hands, then it's probably not a good light for you.

Good luck making your decision!

--flatline

 

[seery]

Because they don't offer anything with the amount of output I need.

 

[archimedes]

....
My last observation is that due to the size, weight, shape, texture, or whatever, people either love the way the HDS feels in their hands or they hate it. I've never had someone not form a strong opinion one way or the other when they use my HDS. My wife, for instance, will usually ask if I have another light she can borrow.

I think the last observation is the most important one. If you get to try one out and you don't absolutely love the way it feels in your hands, then it's probably not a good light for you....

A very interesting and insightful point, this is exactly true.

Everyone I have ever loaned one to has immediately either asked where to get one ... or asked why it is so unwieldy ?

It's the second question that is hey, how much does this thing cost (lol) ?

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

And as for needing to be "updated" ... my two newest (both used in EDC type roles) are an HDS170T Clicky and and HDS100Hcri Clicky. Those old obsolete emitters serve my purposes just fine to this day.

Exactly. wacbzz is, as usual, promoting a red-herring argument. Just because Henry is a perfectionist who is constantly seeking to improve his product does not mean that previous versions of that product are suddenly obsolete, or that I am obligated to pay for the latest revisions. My 120 lumen high CRI Rotary is around 6-years old, and it continues to serve my needs perfectly. The only time I'll consider trading up is if something substantially new is released, such as a 1xAA HDS, or a "switchless" Rotary that is operated by the dial alone (essentially an electronic Twisty).

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

I used to use the light when my life depended on it. Both in the field and training LEO's in low light shooting (nothing more dangerous than training a rookie with a loaded sidearm in the dark!) It doesn't now as I stopped doing that shilly sit. I gave both my friends sons one when one deployed to Afghanistan and the other to Iraq. I guess I'll have to somehow justify why I would spend that kind of money on young men who are not related me. Your attitude is noted, and may I suggest prince Valium or perhaps a keg of rum? As you have been around here, you know very well I owned HDS lights long before I ever met Henry, and only started working there in January to help with production delays, so to insinuate that all we are doing as owners and an "employee" of HDS is trying to justify why we spent so much money on a light... I think you have missed the mark. Now, if I am going to try to justify something, it will be the amount of time I have spent in my life dealing with Adam Henrys... which is why I left my previous profession but they still seem to keep popping up.

I think what it comes down to is that there really is nobody who genuinely needs an HDS flashlight, just like there's no need for anyone to own any premium item, so the cost cannot be objectively justified. That leaves only subjective reasons, and subjectively, I own an HDS for the same reason I own a Victorinox multitool and a Benchmade Mini Griptilian even though there are lower-cost alternatives on the market: I like to spend my money on things that are made well, that are designed to last, and that have a reputable company willing to stand behind them. I will probably never be in a situation where a quality tool means the difference between life and death, so it could be argued that my choice of everyday carry is overkill, but I enjoy the peace of mind that comes from owning the "best" and knowing it will always "just work". In my opinion, that's worth paying for.

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

I think what it comes down to is that there really is nobody who genuinely needs an HDS flashlight, just like there's no need for anyone to own any premium item, so the cost cannot be objectively justified. That leaves only subjective reasons, and subjectively, I own an HDS for the same reason I own a Victorinox multitool and a Benchmade Mini Griptilian even though there are lower-cost alternatives on the market: I like to spend my money on things that are made well, that are designed to last, and that have a reputable company willing to stand behind them. I will probably never be in a situation where a quality tool means the difference between life and death, so it could be argued that my choice of everyday carry is overkill, but I enjoy the peace of mind that comes from owning the "best" and knowing it will always "just work". In my opinion, that's worth paying for.

I think there's some justification for tools that will "last a lifetime". Those tools will never become outdated.

With electronics, such as flashlights, there is eventually technological obsolescence. 120 lumens several years ago might have seemed good. Nowadays, there are 2000 lumens from a similar-sized light. Other features of the light might not change much due to technology, but the LED and drivers certainly do.

 

[wacbzz]

Exactly. wacbzz is, as usual, promoting a red-herring argument.

Says the guy in such a hurry to mention my name that he very clearly and obviously missed the post by the CPF member only two posts above his that mentioned the very "red herring" reason. :ironic:

Interestingly enough, tack on yet another HDS "user" that, rather than reading the OP -or even the thread title alone - feels the need to enter the thread to "defend" these lights as to why the OPer should buy one.

Amazing.

 

[archimedes]

....
With electronics, such as flashlights, there is eventually technological obsolescence. 120 lumens several years ago might have seemed good. Nowadays, there are 2000 lumens from a similar-sized light. Other features of the light might not change much due to technology, but the LED and drivers certainly do.

Interestingly, with my 170T Clicky, I typically most often use settings from the lower half of the programming range. In fact, I don't even think that I have "max" (press-hold) set to the maximum of 170 lumens.

Although I haven't personally checked the runtime efficiency myself, my understanding is that the vintage legacy units actually have less "overhead" than the newer Rotary.

I also prefer the beam of that Osram Golden Dragon emitter to that of most of the current newer choices.

Yes, I understand if one needs or wants two kilolumen for an EDC, my 170T would be obsolete.

But, for me, darkness tonight is no darker than it was when I got the 170T and it still does what I need it to do. Not obsolete for me, and I'd rather have the longer runtime and better throw :shrug:

 

[WalkIntoTheLight]

Interestingly, with my 170T Clicky, I typically most often use settings from the lower half of the programming range. In fact, I don't even think that I have "max" (press-hold) set to the maximum of 170 lumens.

But, for me, darkness tonight is no darker than it was when I got the 170T and it still does what I need it to do. Not obsolete for me, and I'd rather have the longer runtime and better throw :shrug:

I mostly use 50-100 lumens, even on a 1000+ lumen light. There's nothing making me use the less-efficient 1000 lumen mode. But it's there for when I need to illuminate something that isn't nearby.

So, yes, 120 lumens is perfectly fine 90% of the time. It's the other 10% where the benefit of recent technology comes handy. Upgrading lights to use new technology doesn't make them better for your existing tasks; it allows you to use them for new tasks that require higher output.

That said, my most frequently carried light is a small 1xAAA light that does less than 100 lumens on max. I choose to sacrifice the rare times I need more output, for the convenience of small size and weight. But, if or when I can get 1000 lumens from a very small light (without overheating), I'll upgrade! My old one will sit in a drawer and never get used again, most likely.

 

[ven]

Not directed at anyone here, just some thoughts........

As a general comment to anyone who had a HDS and sold it, could apply to pretty much any light................Too big,too small, too heavy, not bright enough, dont like the UI, no decent clip or one that suits. Then too expensive, not easy for warranty issues(could be shipping abroad). What would be interesting, would be what previous HDS owners have switched to and why. Why they chose a specific make, be it for size, output or everything mentioned.

The only flaw i see in the question really is your answers are all going to be a reason not to buy one................and all the answers will be for reasons that could be applied to most lights. Just thoughts here, nothing more.

Take a Mcgizmo haiku, almost twice the cost and no brighter really, who in their right mind would have one of these

My point simply being, its either for you or it isn't, only way is to try out imho

Shame no one could ship one to try out for a week, which side of the pond are you gurdy?

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

Says the guy in such a hurry to mention my name that he very clearly and obviously missed the post by the CPF member only two posts above his that mentioned the very "red herring" reason. :ironic:

Interestingly enough, tack on yet another HDS "user" that, rather than reading the OP -or even the thread title alone - feels the need to enter the thread to "defend" these lights as to why the OPer should buy one.

Amazing.

The saying "Thou dost protest too much, methinks" comes to mind.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

I think there's some justification for tools that will "last a lifetime". Those tools will never become outdated.

With electronics, such as flashlights, there is eventually technological obsolescence. 120 lumens several years ago might have seemed good. Nowadays, there are 2000 lumens from a similar-sized light. Other features of the light might not change much due to technology, but the LED and drivers certainly do.

So what? 120 lumens is just as bright today as it was 6-years ago, so it seems silly to declare it "obsolete". Just because there are 2000 lumen lights on the market doesn't suddenly render my flashlight unusable. 120 lumens is more than sufficient for 90% of my use and adequate to acceptable for the remaining 10%; that was true when I bought the light, and it will be true 10-years from now. In fact, I daresay that the average person will find 2000 lumens less useful on a regular basis than 200 lumens, or even 20 lumens, so I don't buy into this notion that you're getting less value for your money if your flashlight isn't the brightest thing on the block. Maybe if you have a specialized purpose, like search and rescue, then you really do need 2000 lumens, or 20,000. But for the average Joe? Nah.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

Although I haven't personally checked the runtime efficiency myself, my understanding is that the vintage legacy units actually have less "overhead" than the newer Rotary.

Not exactly. In the last major hardware revision, Henry doubled the runtime on high (from 1-hour guaranteed to 2-hours guaranteed) but had to sacrifice the legendary low-end runtime to achieve it. But even then, you still get literally a week of continuous runtime on the lowest setting, which more practically speaking translates into months of intermittent use.

 

[gurdygurds]

HEY!!!!! WHAT DID I SAY EARLIER!!!! ENOUGH!!! EVERYONE GO GRAB YOUR E01s NOW!!!! RIGHT NOW!!!! I WILL SERIOUSLY CALL MY MOM IN TWO SECONDS IF THIS DOESN'T STOP!!!