FlashKat
Flashlight Enthusiast
I am looking at the Acebeam EC60 for throw, and the new EC50 Gen II.
Will manufacturers start making significantly more 26650 sized lights?
- Thread starter HighlanderNorth
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roger-roger
Enlightened
Thanks, Guess I was wrong in thinking the U21 was currently available in neutral white.
mattheww50
Flashlight Enthusiast
I suspect we are going to see considerably more interest in flashlights that require a higher current high capacity cell than is currently practical with the 18650. This is being driven by the wide availability of reasonably priced emitters that can deliver more than about 1200 lumens. With the current driver technology, 1200 lumens is effectively the upper limit of what can be driven by most 18650 cells. While there are some very high current 18650's, all trade in a hefty portion of capacity for the ability to actually delivery 10 amps or more. By contrast there are a number of 26650 cells with 10amp+ capability and capacity well in excess of the best 18650. The wide spread availability of high powered emitters like the MT-G2, XHP35,XHP50 and XHP70 is forcing either multi cell 18650 solutions, or single cells 26650 solutions to meet the power requirements. For a number of reasons, the single cell 26650 is starting to look pretty attractive. No worries about matching cells that can result in catastrophic failures (and potential lawsuits). At the moment the higher capacity is achieved utilizing 18650's, however the future might well belong to the 20700 if it can delivery substantially more power than the 18650 with total energy capacity more in line with 26650 cells. The ever increasing efficiency of the LED at the same time is making inroads into the heat dissipation problems, making smaller very high powered lights practical.
Drift Monkey
Newly Enlightened
Try any of the mutli-emitter flashlights that pull over 10A on FET (many pull much more than just 10A, closer to 18A in some cases). The Manker E14 comes like this, a production light and you won't get close to it's maximum output with a single 10A cell. It's also not necessarily about maximum CDR, it's about the accompanying lower internal resistance...18650s generally win that fight as well because of higher draw. Internal resistance makes a difference when running FET (even at <10A) as it results it much less voltage sag.
Efest batteries are notoriously overrated...and that 4200mah cell is NOT a 35A cell, not even close. The Orbtronic is 4900mah tested cell and actually only does 10A CDR. 3500mah @ 10A CDR on a NCR18650GA looks much more impressive stacked next to this cell, considering it's 50% smaller...the Orbtronic would have to be 7000mah to have the same energy density.
Again, I do realize this is a flashlight forum, but vapers use the same cells and we can gather a lot of info to cross reference with our own data. Dismissing it because "this is a flashlight discussion" is lulz.
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Drift Monkey
Newly Enlightened
Zebralight's XHP35 powered lights put out (a likely underrated) 1300 lumens from a single 18650. The Wizard Pro v3 runs a XHP50 to 2150 lumen off a single 18650. The Nitecore TM03 (XHP70) puts out 2800lm on a single (albeit proprietary) 18650. Boost drivers will continue to improve so I don't think 26650s will be the solution "just because they're bigger."
The best of 18650s far exceed the capacity and energy density ratio of the best 26650s by far. 3500mah GA and 3000mah 30Qs have no 26650 equivalent. Equivalent 26650 cells would have to be 7000mah @ 10A CDR and 6000mah @ 20A CDR.
2170 cells might make a good compromise in the near future so long as they keep the same energy density (or better) of the 18650s.
sidecross
Flashlight Enthusiast
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Go HJK's Battery Comparator and put in the Samsung INR18650-30Q 3000mAh and the Vappower IMR26650 4200mAh and it would argue my pov that even given today's 26650 battery it will out perform even the well known Samsung 30Q for my needs.
I have used both batteries and for me the single 26650 battery light is my better choice. It is nice that we do have a choice.
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Drift Monkey
Newly Enlightened
You've already said this, and I've already responded....the 30Q still shows less sag at 20A (and still has a far higher density to size ratio), although for lower outputs it's a fine/great choice. There are actually better 26650 cells out there, but they aren't as readily accessible (Brillipower green 4500mah and Boxer Black 4500mah (tested @ 5200mah).Go HJK's Battery Comparator and put in the Samsung INR18650-30Q 3000mAh and the Vappower IMR26650 4200mAh and it would argue my pov that even given today's 26650 battery it will out perform even the well known Samsung 30Q for my needs.
I have used both batteries and for me the single 26650 battery light is my better choice. It is nice that we do have a choice.
Like I said, I don't hate 26650s (I'm all about having more choices), I'm simply stating why I prefer 18650s - energy density, easier to source, and they're cheaper. The new 2170 format is exciting though, especially if they can keep the same energy density (or improve it).
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KeepingItLight
Flashlight Enthusiast
Both are obsolete.
The future is 20700. Panasonic will manufacture billions of them for Tesla. LG and Samsung will then probably join the party.
What about the 21700?
I read that, too. Tesla/Panasonic is planning to rename the battery, as well, dropping the trailing "0." In the article I read, this battery was called the "21-70" (yes, with a hyphen).
If Tesla ramps up production as it hopes to, the 21-70 will become the biggest selling Li-ion rechargeable battery. Tesla has optimized it for use in the large battery packs it uses in its vehicles, but we may find that even single 21-70 batteries give you more bang-for-your-buck than 18650s do at present.
This is one time where the hyperbolic claim, "This technology will become big in only five years, or so!" is probably accurate.
Personally I like 26650 single cell lights. But our problem is that only the Chinese make them. Currently the best cell they make in 18650 is about 2600 mah, double the size to 26650 and we get around 5200 mah. Panasonic, Sanyo, Lg and Samsung don't make them or haven't made them in a long time. If they did then I'd be in hog heaven with 20 amp 7300 mah cell. On Budget light forum they wrote to some makers for 26350's after a year we now have them.
HighlanderNorth
Flashlight Enthusiast
Wrong thread...... How?
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sidecross
Flashlight Enthusiast
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In my use of flashlights my highest amperage draw is 6 amps, and I am more concerned with weight, size, and duration of run time. I rarely run my lights at full power. For me the 26650 flashlight makes good sense.
Chaitanya
Banned
I am currently eyeing Acebeams Ec60, looks like a perfect pocket thrower I was looking for. Although I still would like see mode spacing and runtimes but that light has be interested in the 26650 FF.
Vape & flashlight are vastly different... it's almost like trying to compare a car and a motorcycle... vape typically has a MUCH higher amperage pull over production flashlights, just as a motorcycle typically has a much higher power to weight ratio vs a car... this is one of the reasons vape & flashlight usage cannot be directly compared, & why a NCR18650B 3400mAh Panasonic is a great battery for most LED flashlights, but not as good for vape. This is also why there are high drain batteries (15A, 20A, 30A) being made more & more, they're aren't enough production flashlights being made that can utilize them to justify making them, vape & Tesla products on the other hand...
Cannot speak for the eFest, I don't own any of their batteries, nor do I know anyone that does own any. Still, I cannot imagine a company claiming 35A continuous draw if it cannot do it. They would just be opening themselves up to lawsuit when something goes terribly wrong.... false capacity, sure, false discharge current, I call BS there.
But the newest Orbtronic IMR "High Drain" (15A max protected cells) are indeed 5200mAh cells, & do handle a 12A constant current draw @ 5010mAh tested average capacity. Anything 10A or lower goes just past the full 5200mAh capacity rating. Unfortunately, I don't own them or the testing equipment, those belong to a friend of mine who bought 2 of them a couple months ago. He has tested them from 2A up to 12A constant current & loves them. In the 12A tests, one cell tested @ 5004mAh & the other @ 5016mAh, & at 2A they tested at 5286mAh & 5292mAh. All testing was done before putting the batteries into real world use.
I'm not to familiar with multi-emitter lights, I've stayed completely away from them. Mostly because they're bigger than anything I want to use, or just don't have a decent runtime vs lumen output as is the case with the Manker E14... Almost all of them use multiple batteries (E14 obviously being an exception) to reach those high lumen outputs so you're not even pulling 15-20A from a single battery, but rather 2, 3, 4 batteries for 10A or less draw per cell.
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Drift Monkey
Newly Enlightened
Yeah...no. You're grossly overstating the differences of vaping and flashlights and discounting knowledge that can be learned from battery enthusiasts that favor these cells no matter the hobby. Your thoughts are based in generalization and hearsay. Vapers test all different types of cells at a range of different discharge rates not just high discharge. In fact, not all vapers are high amp users...10A batteries are used for lower wattages and longer runtime quite commonly.
False discharge ratings...believe. This has been proven by multiple sources...chinese cells are frequently overrated. The Orbtronic is what it is, "rated" at a CDR amperage doesn't always equate to actual stable CDR...burst ratings are a different matter. Most batteries can handle higher than their CDR, just not sustained (heat becomes a serious issue).
The E14 has decent runtime with an 18650 tube. The lower modes are fully regulated as well.
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Re-read what I wrote about those Orbtronic.... I'm not talking about what they are rated at, I'm talking about what a friend of mine tested two of them at, & he tested both of the ones he bought at 12 amps with over 5,000mAh capacity (just barely over), I believe that his tester is a West Mountain Radio CBA IV PRO computerized battery tester which can test from less than 0.1A to 40A.
BTW... those efest I previously mentioned have been tested at 20A & 30A... "false discharge rating" ??? EFest never claimed 35A @ 4200mAh (at least not in any literature I've read so far) & clearly, they can handle at least 30A, though looking at the drop from 20A to 30A, I suspect maybe only 2500 - 3000mAh @ 35A.
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common26650comparator.php - select eFest IMR26650 4200mAh (Purple) 2016 from drop down menu - Unfortunately, he has not tested the new Orbtronics.
As for the E14, still too short on runtime for my taste, even using a 3400/3500/3600mAh 18650.
As for:
Am I really? Vape typically = mid to very high amperage for very short periods (seconds), where flashlight = low to mid amperage for up to a few hours continuously in the case of search & rescue. Yes, there are exceptions to everything... very high amp LED flashlights, very low amp vape, etc...
Bottom line as relates to the thread, there ARE 26650 batteries that will handle a high powered LED flashlight (i.e. single emitter XHP70 @ 3000 lumens) for longer than any 18650 will be able to do. A good quality 15A 26650 cell rated for 5200mAh capacity (like the Orbtronics) @ 10A is going to give longer runtime than a 20A 18650 cell rated for 3000mAh capacity @ 10A. As more 26650 flashlights become available, it's possible we'll see higher capacity 26650 batteries become available as well.
spotlight76
Newly Enlightened
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I have read that an R50 pro will be out soon.
These are the Orbtronics that I'm talking about, just got my pair yesterday.
First thing I did, was toss them on the Opus BT-C3100 V2.2 & ran a charge / test cycle @ 2A charge / 1A discharge - sadly, I don't currently have access to anything with a higher discharge rate as my friend is out of town on vacation. Here's the result at 1A discharge: 5,371mAh & 5,421mAh.
Still up in the air on which 26650 light I'm gonna get, kinda waiting to see what the official specs on the Olight R50 Pro will be...
First thing I did, was toss them on the Opus BT-C3100 V2.2 & ran a charge / test cycle @ 2A charge / 1A discharge - sadly, I don't currently have access to anything with a higher discharge rate as my friend is out of town on vacation. Here's the result at 1A discharge: 5,371mAh & 5,421mAh.
Still up in the air on which 26650 light I'm gonna get, kinda waiting to see what the official specs on the Olight R50 Pro will be...
