Will the KLx hurt ARC LS sales?

brightnorm

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As a flashaholic/collecter I buy many lights. But my prime goal is in getting as close as possible to our so far mythical holy grail light: the peanut size, fly weight, 500 lumen, fifty hour light. Between LED creators, and people like Peter Gransee, Paul Kim , some of CPF's own innovators and others we are in a time of quickening evolution, if not revolution.

Market forces will determine what company prevails, with which products. But giant companies and little ones can co-exist as long as they fulfill people's needs. Niche companies will always be around. Many years ago a friend of mine co-invented an audio speaker high frequency add-on device and formed a company around it. He did very well surrounded by the Japanese behemoths like Sony and Panasonic until he sold out to one of them, took the money and ran. He did well because he perceived a market need, created something that filled it (at that time it was the only such product), marketed it with great personal salesmanship and sold it successfully at a fairly high price because people who could afford fine home audio systems were happy to pay for something that really worked and made a perceiveable difference. That's why the ARC AAA sells so well. There is literally nothing else like it (no, not the Ultra; the size creates a qualitative, not just quantitative difference) and it works. (Of the dozen or so I've bought for myself and as gifts, not one has malfunctioned).

The Arc remains on my keyring because there is nothing better. I recently ordered another ARC LS 2nd because the 123 version is unique and fun and a great gift, and the AA configuration is small enough to be one of only two lights that fit that terrific little AAA Mag holster. The other is the Inova X5 Classic.

I have an E2 and will order an E2eHA to match the KL1 I intend to order when some of our favorite dealers get their stocks in. I'll probably keep a MN03 in the E2 and use the E2eHA+KL-1 in place of the MN02 or possibly even my UKE 2L, though I'll always have the 2L along as backup. I will also order the KL3 for my 6P and 9P, and see about modding the famous "E3e" for a longer KL1 run, and possibly even with modded adapters for the KL-3.
I'll continue to watch ARC very carefully, but probably won't get the Rev 3. A one hour LED runtime doesn't fit my goals at this time, though I would like more information on the Rev 2.

I have a special feeling for ARC that I'm sure is shared by many in CPF, and I believe that Peter is a very smart and resourceful man who will land on his feet, even if shoved a bit by the big boys.
If ARC is one of two or more companies producing a product with similar function, specs and price I will buy from ARC, even if their price is somewhat higher.

No flames are ever necessary in this wonderfully verdant flashlight forest where fires dare not tread, because 2400 committed forest rangers keep eternal vigilance.

Brightnorm
 

Darell

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Originally posted by brightnorm:

No flames are ever necessary in this wonderfully verdant flashlight forest where fires dare not tread, because 2400 committed forest rangers keep eternal vigilance.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow!
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I'm feeling some poetry coming on!
 

Deth

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Originally posted by KenB:
I think prices from both companies are way, way out of line with cost. If I remember right the LS cost was around $2.50 a apiece bulk...and step ups...around $3. I wish I could make that kind of profit. And in a way...I feel they take advantage of us. I hope a common company, Brinkman, Mag for example, comes out with a nice bright LS so I can afford one. All I can do is sit back and enjoy them through others posts. Although I respect both a little...I don`t love either one. I do side with Arc...but I always root for the underdog.

Ken
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe that the hardcore modding community has already taken up the challenge... ElektroLumens, Mr. Bulk, dat2zip all offer nice mods of current commercial products or Maglite drop-ins. And while the final products may not look quite as stylish as the ArcLS or E2e/KL1, they're a damn sight cheaper.

And don't forget Inretech and Opalec... granted Opalec isn't a Luxeon, but it's still quite a nice design. And Inretech's six LS Mag drop-in is amazing!
 

Saaby

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I am not trying to start a fight but I'd like to make the point that Craig has still never recieved a Arc LS first to review...that could change things a bit.

Sounds like you're happy/will be happy with the KLx...that's great. I have a SLS Rev.1 and I am happy with it, and I can't afford an E2 and a Klx head right now, so I guess I won't be getting one.

No 1 light is right for everyone, not the Arc AAA, not the Arc LS, not [insert favorite Surefire light here], in the end you have to buy the light that is right for you.
Right now I'd buy an LS over Klx, but lets look at the picture a year from now. My options are a KLx head 1w with a long runtime I assume? FOr about $120 or a Arc LS rev 3 with a 1 hour runtime for $200. Sure the Arc has the 5W Luxeon but I don't need 5W. I'd probably get the Surefire.

SO yes, the KLx will definatly hurt Arc sales, especially when a 1 hour runtime Rev 3 at $200 a pop is your only option. I guess I didn't want to admit that because it could (But won't I hope) ultimatly lead to the end of Arc flashlight LLC, and the end of the
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Arc AAA
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I have a question though...if Arc (Even the AAA) sells mainly to us here at CPF, I'm sure that we account for well over 50% of LS sales and at least 25% of AAA sales, and Surefire sells to, well, lots of places...why are they targeting Arc? I don't know...I am jut going to buckle my seatbelt tight and hold on because it's going to be a long and bumpy ride...
 

The_LED_Museum

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Originally posted by V8TOYOTATRK:
BTW, The Arc LS never made Craig's Top products list. The KLx series did.
smile.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The reason for this is because I have yet to see a "First" and therefore cannot yet perform a proper evaluation of the product. I do not want to base my review on a "Second" or a prototype because that would be unfair to Arc. This is also why you do not see a rating on the bottom of the Arc-LS's page.
 

V8TOYTRUCK

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I am also not trying to start a fight, The reason I like this forum is because members don't cross that line. This is constructive debate. Back to your question, I don't think they are targeting ARC. They have the R&D, and $$$ to make a cheaper, brighter, with top quality LS LEDs, then why not take advantage of the new technology. $40 bucks for a high quality LS product is a bargain! Saaby, I appreciate your open mindedness about other products, even more because you are the die hard ARC guy.
 

Saaby

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Originally posted by V8TOYOTATRK:
Pissed? If you something to contribute about this thread, then post it. ARGGGGHHHHH remarks can be sent via email.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think he's worried it will turn into a flame war, and I can see why. It is my hope that it doesn't though.

**edit**
Good, neither are you
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Badbeams3

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Saaby...first off let me point out I don`t reaaly know s**t...er...anything (main point). Just guessing.

Second I think Arc has a good chance. I don`t think SureFire will pull away from the 123 batt...and this will give Arc a nice size door.

It is possible both might co-exist.

I think the AAA Arc stands alone (well the Ultra might be a little compatition) and will keep Arc alive one way or another.

Arc might have to look at it`s profit, price struture and come down some in this new environment.

Ken
 

Charles Bradshaw

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One factor to consider is that Streamlight and Surefire's primary business comes from Law Enforcement depts., etc., while Arc's does not. Arc's primary income is the ARC AAA.

A Police officer's tactical light is 2x123 based, while his duty light is usually a 3D Mag-Lite. The tactical environment requires the tail switch. This is due to the way the light is used, right next to the handgun. The dept. buys the 123s in bulk lots, so the officer doesn't worry about cost.

The non-emergency personel crowd, like most of us on CPF, needs those battery options and longer runtime. Most consumers, however, couldn't care less, as all they know of flashlights are the cheap stuff, and the Mags. To the consumer, an LED light is something that goes on a keyring and you squeeze to activate. Nothing else.

Mr. Gransee is depending on word of mouth advertising and only certain webstores carry (or will) the LS. I have #1148, and if that, plus the fact that he had a hard time building enough stock to ship to one dealer with the hybrids. He is certainly not hurting. Those that find out about the Arc LS, tend to have done so on the web, and have an interest in LED flashlights.
 

Wolfen

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Time will tell...everybody will vote with their pocketbook.

I'm glad that Arc is aound to kick Surefire in the shins. It will keep Surefire on their toes.
And we the consumers are the winners
smile.gif
 

Saaby

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"I'm glad that Arc is aound to kick Surefire in the shins. It will keep Surefire on their toes.
And we the consumers are the winners"

When either or can dominate Mag light, THEN we're all winners
grin.gif
 

rlhess

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Originally posted by Deth:
I believe that the hardcore modding community has already taken up the challenge... ElektroLumens, Mr. Bulk, dat2zip all offer nice mods of current commercial products or Maglite drop-ins.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't forget Lambda!!!!
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Icebreak

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vcal-
&
Deth-

I'm not yet convinced about the Inretec LS AA non-regulated drop in because, well...
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003007;p=2

If it is an amazing choice or even a good choice; I would appreciate your knowledge on this.

Back to subtopic:

Craig- If an ARC LS factory second isn't ethically testable as a first edition ARC LS aren't we out of luck as far as getting benchmark testing from The LED Museum unless someone sends you one?
 

Badbeams3

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Originally posted by Icebreak:
If an ARC LS factory second isn't ethically testable as a first edition ARC LS aren't we out of luck as far as getting benchmark testing from The LED Museum unless someone sends you one?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please reframe from bothering the Arc co. at this time. They are testing a new...well...Sshh...it`s a...get close to your screen cause I`m only going to type this once...implanted switchy thingy...refer to it only as...the test.

We don`t want Surefire getting ahold of this baby
wink.gif


Ken
 
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