Yet Another Reason Not to Use Cheap HID Lighting Components

[glarus]

Courtesy of Club Lexus:



Member there has a 2006 Lexus IS and finds that the electric power steering on the car jerks wildly when the headlamps activate. Problem is traced to the installation of an aftermarket HID ballast.

Here's the original post and follow-up.

Crazy stuff. How probable is it that the ballast is producing enough electromagnetic interference to affect a position sensor within the steering rack? Are Hall effect sensors particularly sensitive to EMI / RFI?

 

[-Virgil-]

I cannot wait to see what happens when you mix highly sensitive, highly responsible electronics (drive by wire, brake by wire, regenerative braking in a hybrid, adaptive cruise control, etc.) with "HID kit" garbage like this. Time for the insurance industry to step up and do what they do best: find a new reason to deny coverage. "We're going to inspect your crashed car before we write a check. If we find an HID kit, your coverage is null and void and you don't get squat out of us."

I love the dufus on ClubLexus thinking he's going to fix his problem with power steering fluid (if he could only just find the reservoir).

 

[Illum]

0.o

I've had power steering fail but nothing like this....
If the steering fluid had ran dry, it would have hindered such oscillations and probably produced a hell of alot of squeaks

hall effect sensors deal primarily with magnetic fields, so yes if a nearby coil is producing sufficient flux it could have an effect on it, but I don't recall power steering sensors to locate that close to headlamps. I don't own a Lexus so I dunno

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

I don't think I'd like insurance pulling that crap on me... if they start doing that, eff it, I'm just getting custom 100W headlamps. I'd rather glare in the eyes of everybody than get f'd over like that....

It does post a serious problem, though. Up until now, the worst I'd heard from EMI was poor radio reception. I've never even seen an HID kit in person, all I have are Hella Gen 3's that I bought new, Philips 85122, also bought new, and OEM xenon projectors, gently used. Never had a problem with radio reception or anything else. Gotta love stuff that's properly designed ^_^

 

[Hamilton Felix]

In general, this makes me like older cars with little or no electronics aboard. BTW, as I sit using the wi-fi at the local library, I just saw an 80 year old pickup drive by. Local guy, drives what he likes. I'm pretty sure a 1929 or 1930 Model A has ZERO electronic problems. And it can be maintained at home with basic tools and will go almost anywhere.

We once experienced the governor on a hydroelectric generator going nuts, turbine gate position acting like it had St. Vitus' Dance. Wiring to "run light" atop the unit ran parallel to wires from speed sensors on the machine; when the run light's MV bulb got loose in the socket and arced, the "noise" in the speed sensor wiring gave the governor crazy input.

BTW, how come when a wheel sensor for the ABS goes bad on my Suburban, Mr. ExpensiveWrench has to replace the entire hub, but when the same sort of sensor atop a 100 million dollar hydro generator goes bad, we just replace the sensor???

If a rotten/cheapo HID ballast can make drive-by-wire power steering go nuts, and Toyota is recalling a zillion cars because their drive-by-wire gas pedals have problems, I'm thinking I do NOT need any drive-by-wire in my vehicles.

 

[-Virgil-]

I don't think I'd like insurance pulling that crap on me... if they start doing that, eff it, I'm just getting custom 100W headlamps. I'd rather glare in the eyes of everybody than get f'd over like that....

I don't see how it's "crap". If you ruin the safety performance of your car's lights, and that is a contributing factor to the crash, then the insurance shouldn't pay. It's already that way in many places in Europe.

 

[tay]

yeah, I don't see what was wrong with drive-by-thin-metal-cable. Reliable, easy to troubleshoot, and cheap. Maxima guys with the newer DBW throttle bodies have all these issues where if they try to clean them, it screws up the alignment of the throttle plate big time. I can take mine off the car, open it, and spray some TB cleaner to remove the junk and not have to worry about it breaking it.

I'm also glad I don't have to deal with bulb-out indicators and crap like that.

And my automotive lighting? There are 14 exterior lights on my car. I can remove all 14 in about a half hour without having to drop the bumper or remove any body panels besides popping open the trunk and the hood.

My dad's 05 Mazda6, we couldn't even replace the front corner bulb in. There's just no solid access to it without dropping the front bumper and the grille and then trying to get the headlights off.

 

[MichaelW]

VVT (and other technologies) has made throttle by cable obsolete.

Hopefully Toyota now inspects for aftermarket stuff, and tells you to rip that crap out.

 

[liteitup]

electronic throttle bodies have nothing to do with vvt. nothing at all. variable valve timing adjusts valve events to engine speed, now how much air is metered into the engine)(throttle body)

electronic throttle bodies were first introduced in the mid 90's and are used primarily to prevent abuse of the engine. Since you have no real control of the throttle the computer will only allow the throttle to do what it wants to do. Its more for the car companies warranty then anything else. Go get into a electric throttle body car and hammer the gas pedal in neutral. Most if not all will not allow the engine to rev past 4000 rpms. It also knocks out a lot of power during the shift of the transmission to further protect the transmission.

 

[tay]

one advantage, though, to DBW is that you can do launch control.

My buddy built a circuit where, when drag racing, he hits a switch and it automatically revs to a certain RPM, then slowly increases until WOT, so he doesn't have any wheelspin. Cool stuff.

 

[Random Guy]

VVT (and other technologies) has made throttle by cable obsolete.

Hopefully Toyota now inspects for aftermarket stuff, and tells you to rip that crap out.

I believe that you are thinking of Valvetronic (variable valve lift if you are not BMW)

 

[MichaelW]

electronic throttle bodies have nothing to do with vvt. nothing at all. variable valve timing adjusts valve events to engine speed, now how much air is metered into the engine)(throttle body)

electronic throttle bodies were first introduced in the mid 90's and are used primarily to prevent abuse of the engine. Since you have no real control of the throttle the computer will only allow the throttle to do what it wants to do. Its more for the car companies warranty then anything else. Go get into a electric throttle body car and hammer the gas pedal in neutral. Most if not all will not allow the engine to rev past 4000 rpms. It also knocks out a lot of power during the shift of the transmission to further protect the transmission.

Modern engine controllers are 'torque demand' based, and you control the torque demanded by the foot sensor, the gas pedal.
So, it is the job of the programming of the engine controller to find the best combination of engine speed, valve timing, to satisfy the demanded torque, while returning the best emissions legal mileage.
By adjusting the valve timing, for the same power 'requested', you can have a larger throttle angle, and reduced pumping losses.

Even on engines without vvt, Honda's R18-Honda Civic, you need throttle by wire to operate the 'vtec' in combination with the eEGR system.


Torque management was not dependent on throttle by wire.


Valvematic, Valvetronic, or VVEL an other intake lift scaling systems replace the throttle (the throttle is still, there but defaults to fully open. Okay, Toyota is cheating with their Valvematic, because the minimum lift is about 1mm, which isn't low enough, so the throttle is still used for load control at light loads)

 

[oilyLS400]

I came to this forum looking for a way to get brighter headlights on the 1990 LS400 (9004) I just bought.

Is it inadvisable to go with the HID kits, plug and play or otherwise?

--Michael

 

[Alaric Darconville]

I came to this forum looking for a way to get brighter headlights on the 1990 LS400 (9004) I just bought.

Is it inadvisable to go with the HID kits, plug and play or otherwise?

--Michael

Highly inadvisable, and illegal. See this page: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

You could start a new thread on this topic, but first check this thread, as it discusses the 9004 bulb and potential upgrades and may obviate the need for a new one: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=246249

Also, of course, make sure the lenses on those lights are clear, and consider installing relays.

But, enough derailment. Back to the topic at hand.

 

[Disaster]

I just read another reason. After hooking up a cheap HID kit the TPMS started malfunctioning. The TPMS warning light came on every time the lights were on.

 

[mrb]

I just read another reason. After hooking up a cheap HID kit the TPMS started malfunctioning. The TPMS warning light came on every time the lights were on.

Aren't those pressure monitoring sensors using RF?
Maybe on a classic car with a proper throttle cable (ie not DBW), carbs+points and no electronic control systems the kit would be 'OK'.
Even then would probably still screw up your radio reception.
On a modern car installing a cheap HID kit is asking for trouble.:shakehead

 

[-Virgil-]

Hey, this just in: As of last month, installing an "HID kit" on a roadgoing vehicle in Russia can get your driver's license suspended for six to twelve months. The language on this e-translated document is a little clunky, but the concept comes through pretty clearly. The original Russian document is here, and they published a clarification here.

Too bad we can't get this kind of a rule in the USA!