Why do M@gs perform poorly?

Is it the reflector or the bulb or what? Beams off Streamlights seem to be great as do UKs and other incans that run off non CR123s. What makes the Mag fall behind?

For lights that use PR-base bulbs I think Mags do very well with their xenon bulbs. The stock krypton ones aren't as hot.

It's a combination of the two, plus other factors.

Lights using 123's are designed for much higher current draws, something Mag bulbs are not designed for (because alkies can't sustain really high current draws). Also, other makers use "lamp assemblies", where the bulb and the reflector are coupled and tweaked for optimum focus. Nevertheless, a "focused" Mag beam in a C or D light throw fairly well, and their reflectors are actually nicely designed.

I'm gonna guess by what you mean by poorly. First, the smooth reflector plus filament gives lousy artifacts. Second, the alkaline cells that are used to power the stock lamp. Alkies have poor discharge characteristics so the light is nice and bright for the first few minutes and then it's totally downhill from that point on. If they made lamps optimized for NiMH chemistries with 1.2V nominal voltage, say a lamp that draws 1.5A at 2.4V, then you'd get higher performance. Oh, they need to make the reflector stipled. This is essential for an incandescents. That would take care of the lousy beam. But since Mag is M@g, we'd never see any improvements. They're dinosaurs in lighting technology. They do make nice hosts for mods though Other than that, they're pretty useless in my opinion.

I think the reflector and bulb is "what", for the most part. They are a compromise to achieve good throw, on a budget. You have to remember that the typical Mag costs under $20 and, is a dependable flashlight. Thats a good part of the reason so many modders use them as a host.

Actually, as far as just throw is concerned, Mags really aren't that bad. Thats where the smooth reflector comes in, albeit, with lots of nasty artifacts. They dont use high dollar bulbs in them either, however, they are also readily avaliable. Another way to keep the cost down.

A lot of Mag bashing goes on these days but, in reality, there aren't that many lights, for under $20, that can outthrow a Mag.

Dave

So, where can I get a decent bulb (STILL using the 3D format meaning no AA adapters)

consider one of the Luxeon-LED dropins available for mag-modding... rather than another bulb.

Because their kripton bulbs are a practical joke! The alkalines are not an acceptable excuse for the Mag ridiculous perfomance. I have many UK and Princeton Tec lights powered by regular alkalines that will put any Mag to shame.

Those jarheads at Maglite hasn't realized that we're on the XXI century already...

keep in mind that mags are designed to be the every man light. they arent sports cars. a mag runs for about 9 hours on its batteries! because they are alkalines the output diminishes steadily. but try to squeeze 9 hours of runtime out of your surefire or streamlight... not going to happen. mags are just not optimised for us CPF'ers they could verry eisily make a light with an hour runtime that was a LOT brighter and ran on lithum batteries but then that wouldnt really be a maglight. that is too much light for about 95% of flashlight users. Maglight does exactly what it means to do, and it does it perfectly. Mag lights are the 95% lights. bash em all you want, if my grandma needs a flashlight im buying her a mag not a SF.

Yeah, a lot of Mag-bashing goes on on these forums. Some of it is deserved such as not embracing new technology, but a lot of it is just blind bias. As far as beam smoothness, with a given bulb and power source, smoothness and throw are inversely proportional. You either want a far throwing light or you want a really smooth beam. Or some balance of the two. Mag assumes you want the most throw possible and gives the smooth reflector. You can get a much smoother beam for $1.00 by sputtering the reflector.

As far as the lack of brightness, the generally poor performing alkalines are partly to blame. Most Mag bulbs pull less than 1 amp while most Surefire and Streamlight bulbs pull well over an amp. Voltage is another issue. The alkaline cells are rated for 1.5V but under an actual load, they drop to about 1.2V. That means in order to have the same working voltage as the Surefire G2, you need at least a 5 cell Mag.

And in Mag's slight defense, the do offer the Magcharger for folks that need more power on a consistant basis. But other than CPF members, most folks don't need anywhere NEAR that type of output.

Personally, I'm glad Mag still makes 2C, 2D and 3D lights... either for stock use or to be modded. Imagine where we would be if they realized that those lights are all crap and pulled them from the market. What would we build our modded lights with?

Indeed what would we do?

I was tweaking my 3C earlier. It carries a LUX I PR "bulb" from a Sears Craftsman 3AAA light. The head wobbled a bit and the batteries rattled. Tightening the head on down against the grip tape fixed the wobble and a piece of plastic that gave up some flourescent home bulbs along side the batteries shut them up.

EDIT: BTW the 3C with the LUX I is not shabby at ALL!!!!

The closest one I have to stock is a 3D with 4AA NimH and an Acrylite diffusing lense... it only gets brighter from there!

mags are "directed" at the general public... they are selling lots of flashlights at a reasonable price. Liek others have said, they are very tough and dependable, which makes them worth the price for most people...

they are in a position that makes them incapable of making changes that require the user to be more knowledgable about the light itself... if they designed a light that was brighter, but was only designed to run on NIMHs- then many mag-users would drop alkies in it on "accident" and mag would be dealing with warrenty claims and a pile of customer complaints on blown bulbs....

The type of people who seek out the specialized power of a surefire, or other "high-end" light, are more focused on the requirements that must be met for the light to operate correctly...

it's all about tradeoffs i guess.... A glass lense, and a better reflector would go a long way, but probably increase the price.

People need to stop seing things only in black and white, there is also gray and plenty other colors... There isn't only MAG and SUREFIRE offering lights in the market, so it's not a fair argument to say "the average joe don't need a Surefire, a mag will suit his needs", yeah right, like there is no other alternatives. As I said a couple of posts above, Princeton Tec, UK, Brinkmann and many others manufacturers offer alkaline powered flashlights, with better bulbs, more output, better reflectors, more compact/lighter and 100% waterproof at reasonable prices. And that's only talking about incans, I won't even get into other technologies or overseas brands...

GarageBoy said:

So, where can I get a decent bulb (STILL using the 3D format meaning no AA adapters)

Click to expand...

pizzaman's easiest mod is a good candidate. Stuff 4C alkie in your 3D. Drop a RadioShack XPR103 in it. Big improvement. If you are feeling creative practice sputtering with Krylon clearcoat to smooth the beam.

No you will not have created a superlight but it will be much nicer than stock.

Get 4C NimH (even stupid Energizer 2500s) and get steadier light for longer...

Hey, no more Maglite bashing. Maglites perform the way they do for people like me. I would feel really incompetent if it were not for Maglites. Maglites were put on earth so people like me, with no electrical and very little mechanical skills, would have something to modify.

I can make a 1C Maglight that will turn off a streetlight, and I can make a Maglite that will blow away the brightest Surefire on the maket, but if I even try a mod involving an LED, something always goes , and all the magic smoke leaks out. I have a whole box of LED lights waiting to be brought back from the dead

Where would the fun be if I could just buy a Mag85 right off the shelf. I say 3 cheers to Maglite for giving us "modding challenged" indivuals something to play with.

"Why do Mags perform poorly?" Well, like what JimH alluded to. To give CPF modders and others the challenge to improve upon it.