Which Civic would have more "pep"?

Just curious as to which Civic would have more "pep" in real world driving conditions.

Regular ICE Civic:
140 hp @ 6300
128 lb. ft. Torque @ 4300

Civic Hybrid
110 hp @ 6000
123 lb. ft. Torque @ 1000 - 2500

I understand that torque is a better determiner of 'performance'.

How does a Prius compare to these?

Should I wait for the 2007 Camry Hybrid for 'better performance'?

Thanks!

David

I haven't kept up with the latest versions. Does the hybrid use the CVT tranny? If so, you can take "pep" right out of it's vocabulary. Of course, I've always been one to add "pep" to my cars :naughty:

-DF (...whose flashlght hobby is second to his cars :rock: )

DFiorentino said:

I haven't kept up with the latest versions. Does the hybrid use the CVT tranny? If so, you can take "pep" right out of it's vocabulary. Of course, I've always been one to add "pep" to my cars :naughty:

-DF (...whose flashlght hobby is second to his cars :rock: )

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Yes it DOES have a CVT. Why does that "take pep right out of it's vocabulary"? Do CVT transmissions not give you good power to the tires?

"pep" comes from the ability to bump the power curve. You can't do that with a CVT.

depends on the cvt system imagine your engine staying at the rpm that has the most hp and tourque as the transmission continiously varies its output ratio.

no pushing in the clutch and shifting gears or letting up on the throttle.

sounds pretty sporty to me.

I have an '06 Civic, but have not driven the Hybrid to make a comparison. It seems quite peppy, at least compared to the Mazda MPV I was driving before. It's also a bit quicker than my son's '99 Civic, which has 127 hp., but less weight. I'm liking this car a lot. So far, it's getting 31-32 mpg for a 50/50 mix of driving. Haven't had a road trip yet.

Geoff

The hybrid is also 150 - 200 lbs heavier than the standard Civic sedan, depending on the tranny you have in the latter. This slightly affects acceleration as well.


best regards

Which ever one of them comes with low profile rims, a huge spoiler (for "downforce" on a front wheel drive... LOL!), lots of racing stickers, and after market "ground effects" will most surely be faster.

Oh yeah, I hear that adding some under-body neon and an overpowered stero system adds about another fifteen to thirty HP....

BMW makes a nice CVT transmission that does a good job at pep transfer from engine to ground. Honda's, from past personal experience is far from pep oriented Don't get me wrong, it is nice, but this is coming from a person that chooses to drive a manual transmission in everything. Even with my 100+ mile commute in 50% chance stop-and-go traffic, I prefer manual. I would, however, most likely choose a CVT tranny over any 4 speed auto. 4 gears is just too much of a compramise, I'd rather have none

-DF

AJ_Dual said:

Which ever one of them comes with low profile rims, a huge spoiler (for "downforce" on a front wheel drive... LOL!), lots of racing stickers, and after market "ground effects" will most surely be faster.

Oh yeah, I hear that adding some under-body neon and an overpowered stero system adds about another fifteen to thirty HP....

Click to expand...

HAHAHAHA so very true...LOL...

Excuse my ignorances, but I thought I heard on motorweek that the hybrid civic had better acceleration than the non hybrid one? Are we talking about the same car with the v6 and hybrid option?

Any car can be given more "pep" with a free-er flowing air filter, larger free-er flowing exhaust. Then you got the switching over of the steel to mag wheels, computer chips, cams, intakes, headers, turbos and superchargers. For the most part the fiter and exhaust can give that little pep most cars are missing.

I had a 99 Civic Si which was rated at 160 HP @ 8000RPM and like 111 ft/lbs of torque at 7200 RPM. Don't kill me if these specs are off a bit, but they are close.

On cars like this, HP and torque numbers simply don't tell the entire story. I was really set on the Si version because of it's DOHC engine and disc brakes all around. I drove a brand new 99 Civic Si and a almost brand new (less than 10,000 miles) 99 Civic Ex with a manual and in all honesty, if you kept it below about 3,000 or 4,000 RPM, I think the EX felt a tad torquier... I think it was rated at about 12X ft/lbs but the peak was at well below 7200 RPM.

Having said that, I absolutely LOVED how the Si sounded and felt when it was revved hard. Plus with the dual personality of the VTEC engine management, if you kept it below 4,000 RPM or so, you would ALWAYS get 30+ MPG and you could drive an elderly person around in it without arousing any attention. But, when you took it over 5,500 RPM, it literally felt like an entirely different car. I'm not pretending it was some budget super car, but for me, at the time, it was a great choice because they are dead reliable, got great gas mileage and it was fun to drive in a spirited manner. (Also the resale value was a major contributor to my decision. I paid $17,200 for it and got $15,800 for it about 39 months later).

Having said that, I haven't driven a a post-2000 Civic except for an EX with an auto. Between the two cars you are speaking of in this thread, I'm sure the combustion version will have more pep. On the Camry, if the Accord is any indication, the Camry is likely to be well over $30,000. I think the Accord is about $35,000 or $36,000.

A CVT could be built several ways, where it keeps RPM low all the time for fuel economy and engine durability, or where it keeps it at peak torque/hp all the time, or one that can choose to change when you press on the pedal. I would think that they would all be the later, but I guess they all arent?

If we take transmision out of the varibles, then the engine with torque down lower in the RPM range will win as far as city driving and being peppy off the line. 4cyls especially foreign ones are not known for having power in the low RPM ranges, so you have to "rev the p***" out of them before they get going. Wind them out... Both motors make peak HP above 6,000RPM, so you got to wind them out to red line. Ok, now lets look at the torque, the hybrid comes on much faster, from 1,000-2500rpm it's doing it's max torque, which is about equal in Ft/lbs to the ICE. From 1,000rpms is like from idle so it will blast off the line much better than the ICE which won't hit it's max torque until 4,300 rpms! I don't know what happens after 2,500rpms to the hybrid, if it drops badly or not...

So I recommend to test drive them both. The fact that they have different transmisions, and the hybrid isn't a straightforward motor (2 motors) makes it a lot more difficult to predict which would have more low-end power, and that's what you need for zipping around in traffic. (unless you drive with your motor pushing 5,000rpms contstanly crusing down the road so you can have instant power. But that's just all the teenagers around where I live. They don't realise that's hard on a motor, loud, annoying, and if they want a motor to have instant power they need one that makes it at a lower rpm).

Cobb: I don't think the Civic ever had or has a V6 in it. The 4cyl is a tight fit as it is, allthough the newer models look bigger from the outside at least.

cobb said:

Excuse my ignorances, but I thought I heard on motorweek that the hybrid civic had better acceleration than the non hybrid one? Are we talking about the same car with the v6 and hybrid option?

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Sounds like you're thinking of the Accord Hybrid, since no Civic ever came with a V6. The Accord Hybrid is as much about power as it is about fuel savings, where the Civic Hybrid is designed mainly for better gas mileage.

-Keith

DFiorentino said:

4 gears is just too much of a compramise, I'd rather have none

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Well, I'm on the third car with "none" and I can tell you with some confidence that none is superior to "any." My cars don't even have a reverse gear.

0-80 in first gear, no clutch.

Here's one that I think you could say has some "pep" without needing gears.
http://www.darelldd.com/ev/wrightspeed.htm

But I digress... I have no experience with the Civic CVT, but the one in the Prius is surprisingly good. Off the line won't startle anybody, but freeway passing power is... well... surprisingly good.

That "car" is a thing of beauty :bow:

...and Yokohama Advan AO48's are just plain sexy :rock:

-DF

Orion said:

Just curious as to which Civic would have more "pep" in real world driving conditions.

Regular ICE Civic:
140 hp @ 6300
128 lb. ft. Torque @ 4300

Civic Hybrid
110 hp @ 6000
123 lb. ft. Torque @ 1000 - 2500

I understand that torque is a better determiner of 'performance'.

How does a Prius compare to these?

Should I wait for the 2007 Camry Hybrid for 'better performance'?

Thanks!

David

Click to expand...

I would think the torque at 1000 RPM will feel peppier.

The 2005 Prius has 110 HP (gas + electric) and 295 (electric) + 85(gas) lb. ft. of torque.

As a Prius owner, I can state that a car can be quite peppy with a CVT. I have the older "classic" Prius and find that I'm never left behind the pack at a green light and never have a problem with someone climbing my tail if I'm first in line at a stop light. As a matter of fact, I have fun getting on a freeway with a cloverleaf where some ******* tailgates me because I'm doing the 25 MPH limit. I invariably leave the sucker behind when I hit the gas. He has to down shift to hit the powerband before he can pick up any real speed, but I'm always in the powerband.

As someone else said, test drive both. I'd suggest the hybrid first, the regular second.

Daniel

DFiorentino said:

That "car" is a thing of beauty :bow:

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Indeed! And that one does 0-124mph in first gear... in under 10 seconds. I just can't describe the feeling.

Hi Orion ! I'm almost positive the hybrid has more pep because in last months Car and Driver they did a test with the V6 and Hybrid Accord and the Hybrid was faster every time in the 0 to 60 test. I don't remember the exact wording but they said the combination of the gas engine and electric motor in the hybrid worked together in the test and out accelerated the regular Accord. If you really want a sweet fast ride, get a 2006 Honda civic si. My daughter has one and its one fantastic car for the money.

lingpau said:

Hi Orion ! I'm almost positive the hybrid has more pep because in last months Car and Driver they did a test with the V6 and Hybrid Accord and the Hybrid was faster every time in the 0 to 60 test. I don't remember the exact wording but they said the combination of the gas engine and electric motor in the hybrid worked together in the test and out accelerated the regular Accord.

Click to expand...

It really depends on how the hydrid was tuned. The Prius was designed to minimize exhaust emissions and as a by-product it delivers outstanding milage. The design uses a very efficient but very low power gas engine with a moderately sized electic motor and a pretty small battery pack. The electronic motor can be thought of as a power booster since it makes up for a weak gas engine.

The Accord was tuned for increased performance with a slight gain in economy as a by-product. It's not as clean as the Civic, Insight or Prius. It uses a fairly normal engine and the electric motor can be considered a power booster.

Daniel