More EV negatives

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SWF

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I used to think I wouldn't want Chinese flashlight. Then I bought my first Zebralight…
 

alpg88

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lights and cars are very different thing, phones are different too, however even Chinese do not want chinese cars given a choice.
 

KITROBASKIN

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I'll just leave this here.
Matt is a good bloke.
He put in real effort to see what it's like to live with an EV:

Stopped it about halfway through the video. So far all he pretty much is saying is that the old EV is not sexy enough (even though it drives well) and he keeps complaining about range deficiencies but he refused to charge it at home (couldn't?) then blamed the car for his poor planning. Oh, and the heater doesn't have oodles of waste heat coming from a wasteful combustion engine. Sham fluff.
 

Monocrom

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Stopped it about halfway through the video. So far all he pretty much is saying is that the old EV is not sexy enough (even though it drives well) and he keeps complaining about range deficiencies but he refused to charge it at home (couldn't?) then blamed the car for his poor planning. Oh, and the heater doesn't have oodles of waste heat coming from a wasteful combustion engine. Sham fluff.
In the end he does find some good things to say about EVs. But you hit the nail on the head regarding one of the biggest issues with living with an EV on a daily basis.... The constant planning that needs to be done. Constantly working out mileage math in your head. That is just something folks who drive ICE vehicles just don't have to do. Running low on gas? Need to travel somewhere that day you didn't expect to? No problem! Hit the road and just fuel up the tank to full on the way. Zero planning required.
 

Lips

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Model Y's battery is $5,500.00.

That looks very low...


Tesla Model Y Battery Replacement Cost


Because this compact crossover is one of Tesla's newest models, it's difficult to find accurate battery replacement costs, which isn't necessarily a bad thing — it means there aren't many damaged batteries for this model.

The Model Y, like the Model 3, Model S, and Model X, has received very few reports of unusual degradation or warranted battery replacement.

Since the Model Y battery pack is designed similarly to the Model 3, battery replacement costs will most likely be comparable. At current estimated prices per kWh ($137), a new 75-82kWh battery pack for the Model Y would cost between $10,000 and $12,000. With miscellaneous parts and a labor charge of around $500 for a 3-hour replacement, a more accurate low estimate for a Model Y battery pack replacement is about $11,000-$13,000.
 

Monocrom

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That looks very low...


Tesla Model Y Battery Replacement Cost


Because this compact crossover is one of Tesla's newest models, it's difficult to find accurate battery replacement costs, which isn't necessarily a bad thing — it means there aren't many damaged batteries for this model.

The Model Y, like the Model 3, Model S, and Model X, has received very few reports of unusual degradation or warranted battery replacement.

Since the Model Y battery pack is designed similarly to the Model 3, battery replacement costs will most likely be comparable. At current estimated prices per kWh ($137), a new 75-82kWh battery pack for the Model Y would cost between $10,000 and $12,000. With miscellaneous parts and a labor charge of around $500 for a 3-hour replacement, a more accurate low estimate for a Model Y battery pack replacement is about $11,000-$13,000.
Yup, mentioned in an earlier post, my own research found that a replacement new battery for that model would be right around $12,000.oo
 

alpg88

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Those batteries in tesla probably pretty reliable normally, unless mice gets in and chews wiring inside the battery (documented facts) or you damage it. So it won't be covered by warranty, may or may not be covered by insurance, so you will have to pay up.
Also natural loss of capacity over time/cycles used, you buy a used one, it will not have the range of a new one, but still they make sence for short daily travel distance, charging at home. I'm pretty sure majority of EV owners have another car that is not an EV
 

Monocrom

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Those batteries in tesla probably pretty reliable normally, unless mice gets in and chews wiring inside the battery (documented facts) or you damage it. So it won't be covered by warranty, may or may not be covered by insurance, so you will have to pay up.
Also natural loss of capacity over time/cycles used, you buy a used one, it will not have the range of a new one, but still they make sence for short daily travel distance, charging at home. I'm pretty sure majority of EV owners have another car that is not an EV
Excellent points.
I did learn just a few hours ago that when Nissan first introduced their All-Electric Leaf model quite a few years back, they apparently had two options for buyers. Buy a Leaf outright, or buy the Leaf but lease the battery. At first that 2nd option sounds like a scam since some consumers were paying as much as $100.oo per month to lease the battery. But it turns out that if anything happened to the battery, Nissan would replace it completely free of charge. I mean if the battery was damaged in a fender-bender accident, would no longer properly charge up, got too old to hold a charge, the range of miles per charge fell too low over time, or it just stopped working; Nissan would take on the expense of installing a new battery.

Funny how that business practice regarding EVs has nowadays mysteriously vanished. Hmm.... Could it be that car-makers realized this would be a great way to eventually go bankrupt if the masses decided to start buying EVs.
 

bykfixer

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In the end he does find some good things to say about EVs. But you hit the nail on the head regarding one of the biggest issues with living with an EV on a daily basis.... The constant planning that needs to be done. Constantly working out mileage math in your head. That is just something folks who drive ICE vehicles just don't have to do. Running low on gas? Need to travel somewhere that day you didn't expect to? No problem! Hit the road and just fuel up the tank to full on the way. Zero planning required.
I had a hot rod Cutlass sleeper like that once. Had to plan out routes because gas stations with 99+ octane were few and far between. The mpg was not unlike a humvee. It was like a helicopter where you don't concern yourself with gallons per mile but gallons per minute instead. It sure was fun to drive though.
 

mrfixitman

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So, we are pretending that an EV only has a battery, sheet-metal, and tires. No, that's not the case. Even an EV is going to have parts that wear out. And with no scheduled maintenance, good luck keeping an EV for 20 years of normal driving without getting hit by a bill so huge that the word "Obscene" would be completely appropriate.

My time is worth a great deal. I spent four months doing nothing to my car other than gassing her up before that unexpected 9 hour visit last Wednesday. Coming away with a $373.oo bill for replacement of the purge valve, State Emissions test, and new brake-light bulb. Spend four months of care-free driving. Get inconvenienced for one day, with a very reasonable repair bill. Honestly, that is a whole hell of a lot better than living with an EV that needs a new battery.

Or, are you really saying that getting hit with a replacement battery bill of anywhere from $12,000.oo for a Tesla (looked it up on my own, no clue where you got only $5,500.oo from but that's still a ridiculous out-of-pocket expense for an EV owner) to $60,000.oo for one on a KIA/Hyundai EV.... are you really saying that's far better than going in for routine scheduled maintenance? I'm not normally a betting man, but I'll wager my entire Life savings that no one would agree with you there.

Will admit, no EV owner is going to spend any amount of time (much less 9 hours) trying to raise the funds to cover that expense. So, you've got me there. That's one for you. Though that owner will be spending at least a couple of hours at a "Pre-owned" car lot negotiating for a good used ICE vehicle after he's forced to sign over the pink-slip on his EV since he obviously can't afford that repair bill. Or perhaps replacement bill for the battery is the correct term.

Yes, ICE vehicles have numerous little items on them that over the years might need repair or even replacement. No doubt there. No arguments from me on that issue that you brought up. And yes, going in to have your ICE vehicle serviced can be an all day thing. A very frustrating one for sure.... But my God! Doing that sure as hell is a much better experience than being handed a bill for $12K-$60K to replace a battery once every few years!! Are you kidding? Are you joking around? At the end of those 9 hours last Wednesday, I paid the man, got in my car with the very comfy driver's seat, drove to my favorite pizza place, then drove home, parked in my designated spot, went upstairs and enjoyed some sweet delicious New York pizza.

Here's what I didn't do.... I didn't sign over my EV to the man who owns the gas-station/garage and then sheepishly ask him to please call me a cab so I could go straight home, and then agonize over my decision for having bought the wrong type of vehicle because I don't have more money than my car is worth; for a replacement battery. That's what I didn't do. Yeah, no scheduled maintenance for a handful of years straight. Instead of only a handful of months. Tell me again how that's a good thing.

Edit: Typo.
Bottom line. You make dirty air that causes a lot of health issues. (Offensive remarks deleted) You wouldn't defecate or urinate on someone. When you drive a car that is what you are doing to Mother Earth, which nourishes you. That said you will probably come around when it is financially viable or government mandated. 2035. I suspect sooner but that is speculation. When you can eliminate Exxon and the Saudis as your fuel source...why wouldn't you?

We had a vegetarian a while back on CPF who was damaging his cause talking all self righteous, forgetting how dependent he is on the meat industry to get his dairy at a low price.

Anyone who lives in a developed nation is inextricably entwined with petroleum use. It is fundamental to the quality of life we have. Can we go forward in a less toxic manner? Would that progress go more smoothly and efficiently if the finger pointing was left behind as well?
Defiance of reality is rampant on both sides, don't you think?


I see your point, however a lot of work is being done to eliminate the petrochemical industry. I will try to be less finger pointy in the future and delete offensive remarks.
 
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mrfixitman

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In the end he does find some good things to say about EVs. But you hit the nail on the head regarding one of the biggest issues with living with an EV on a daily basis.... The constant planning that needs to be done. Constantly working out mileage math in your head. That is just something folks who drive ICE vehicles just don't have to do. Running low on gas? Need to travel somewhere that day you didn't expect to? No problem! Hit the road and just fuel up the tank to full on the way. Zero planning required.
Constant planning? Takes me no time. I have owned a Tesla for a year and a half and never needed a Supercharger. All my trips are under 250 miles. There and back. I already went through this with the Leaf and just over 100 miles range. I could take that car from San Francisco to Burbank in 11 hours. 4 stops. One free. Easy peasie. Tesla does it for you.

That's you! An EV works for your needs. And with your clearly limited driving it has become 2nd Nature for you to just follow the very same charging and driving routine. What works for YOU isn't going to work for others. Especially for those with jobs or careers that requires them to drive more, and unexpectedly too. (Folks who are On-Call most days for example.) For you, it's easy. That's great. For the rest of us, we'd have to plan out trips and take into account that range estimates are overly generous.

In that case an iron battery would be best. Can be at 100% as much as possible. So every chance you get top up. No penalty. With nickel batteries 20% to 80% is recommended. They charge up to 80% faster so possibly better for road trips. In any case you really don't know until you have to do it. Speculation might cause you to not get an EV out of fear, uncertainty or doubt.
 
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mrfixitman

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I mean, ICE engines are stable and proven tech. EVs simply aren't there yet, IMO.

I think hydrogen makes more sense. Toyota and GM are betting big on it, so take that for whatever it's worth.
(Offensive material removed) A Shell spokesman told Hydrogen Insight on Friday: "Shell discontinued the build out of its light-duty hydrogen station network in California in 2023, and after temporary closure of five of its seven light-duty stations, made the decision to permanently close its light duty station network in California in early 2024. I think one expert explained the financial inefficiency of hydrogen and why it is used to prolong the ICE financial structure. Here is his video:
I wouldn't know. I stopped reading his gibberish run-on paragraphs over a month ago.

If I believed in fake news conspiracy theories, I could just turn on CNN or MSNBC and get it straight from the source.
The thing is that I've come across a few people like him. No matter what you say, they keep repeating the same old story. A good use for the ignore button.

I never thought of that EVen though it describes a lot of the commenters here perfectly.
 

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mrfixitman

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I think it's foolishness to only concern yourself with a single issue, E.g. Air quality, while ignoring all the other environmental issues concerning the production of EVs?

This concern has been pointedly addressed many times in this thread and others.
Air quality should be the only concern and renewables plus electric devices equal a poison free system. Now things like plastic off gassing and other environmental issues will be addressed by bioplastics made from corn and other plants. Intelligent minds are working on it. Another thing is if you manufacture and send anything the components must be recyclable. You may have noticed paper products to replace Styrofoam. Milk and drink bottles should be reused until they break. Glass is easily recycled but weighs a lot. So the cost of transportation must be addressed. However, from a scientific point of view, it is possible. Hail Science! The Nerds will save you yet.
 

mrfixitman

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The More wisdom? Or propaganda?
You decide
It seems I have been banned. I can't reply to anything now. SOMEBODY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH. Heed the warnings I have laid out. At least pay attention to reality, not your wish list. I have been informed that this is a private forum, with limited speech.(Offensive material deleted, with apologies)

In my mind I am not lying. In reality it's yet to be seen, but predictable. Turn of the century they crushed EV's. Literally.(Who killed the electric car) 2023 the best selling car in the "WORLD" is an EV. That's with all the FUD Exxon and Toyota are spreading. It's happening fast. This is related to the dirty tricks big oil and other did to perfectly good working transportation systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
 
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Lowglow

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One thing I have noticed in my 30 years of driving- my car is guaranteed to annoy someone.

My car is "too cheap"
My car is "too old"
My car is "too bumpy'
My car is "too slow"
My car has "no style"

People were always asking me when will I be buying a new one. One neighbour even said as it was so old the police would remove it. But its still here and running and fulfilling all that I require of it even at 37 years old. It has all original main parts. It outlived the neighbour, it outlived all the 'better' cars I was suggested to buy and it will probably outlive me.

So as I told my neighbour and all the other naysayers, if someone wants to buy me a car that satisfies them then I'm more than happy to accept. But they never do. They want me to be worse off and want to spend my money for me. No thank you.
 

KITROBASKIN

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Bottom line. You make dirty air that causes a lot of health issues. If you think that's good, for your convenience, you and everyone who think that way are immoral. You wouldn't defecate or urinate on someone. When you drive a car that is what you are doing to Mother Earth, which nourishes you. That said you will probably come around when it is financially viable or government mandated. 2035. I suspect sooner but that is speculation. When you can eliminate Exxon and the Saudis as your fuel source...why wouldn't you?
We had a vegetarian a while back on CPF who was damaging his cause talking all self righteous, forgetting how dependent he is on the meat industry to get his dairy at a low price.

Anyone who lives in a developed nation is inextricably entwined with petroleum use. It is fundamental to the quality of life we have. Can we go forward in a less toxic manner? Would that progress go more smoothly and efficiently if the finger pointing was left behind as well?

Defiance of reality is rampant on both sides, don't you think?
 

Monocrom

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Constant planning? Takes me no time. I have owned a Tesla for a year and a half and never needed a Supercharger. All my trips are under 250 miles. There and back. I already went through this with the Leaf and just over 100 miles range. I could take that car from San Francisco to Burbank in 11 hours. 4 stops. One free. Easy peasie. Tesla does it for you.
That's you! An EV works for your needs. And with your clearly limited driving it has become 2nd Nature for you to just follow the very same charging and driving routine. What works for YOU isn't going to work for others. Especially for those with jobs or careers that requires them to drive more, and unexpectedly too. (Folks who are On-Call most days for example.) For you, it's easy. That's great. For the rest of us, we'd have to plan out trips and take into account that range estimates are overly generous.
 
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