U2 - 80 Lumens? HA! Hogwash!

Ok. The box says a maximum output of 80 lumens. Well, having played with a friend's HDS Ultimate 85 (which is supposedly calibrated to 85 lumens), I can assure all you would-be U2 owners that the U2 is well over 80 lumens. In fact, I believe that my U2 is well over 100 lumens.

When comparing the two beams (on max) on a white wall at a range of 1 metre, the U2 is a clear winner in terms of total output. When comparing to my U60XRGT, there is definately no competition. A ceiling bounce test in a small room definately reveals that the U2 has significantly higher output that the U85.

My guesstimate would peg the output at the 110 to 120 lumens range. Is this what other U2 owners are experiencing?

WP

Floody vs. spotty is hard to compare. But you are right, my U2 does make a lot of light.

WAVE_PARTICLE said:

My guesstimate would peg the output at the 110 to 120 lumens range. Is this what other U2 owners are experiencing?WP

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Yes. My tests show around that IS tested here : 113lumens

I'm putting in a known bin emitter in a U2 this weekend so I'm curious what the result will be.

i totally agree... my U2 def. blows away 80 lumens!

now here's a newbie type quesiton: does anyone know what "bin" surefire uses?(specifically U2)... also, will that have a large efect on output of will Surefire weed out the bad eggs?

My U2 doesn't blow away my HDS U60. I probably lost the lotto. :shrug:

Diode said:

My U2 doesn't blow away my HDS U60. I probably lost the lotto. :shrug:

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Or your U60 is an over-achiever? Did you buy it before there was ever a U85? Maybe it would've been categorized as a U85 if there was such a designation when your light was manufactured.

-Allen

You just can't generalize about the output of any random U2, too much is dependent on what bin of LED Surefire used in any given light. I have two very bright ones now, but I had a third one that was an abysmal performer. Replacing the LuxV with a WWOT gave a 40% increase in lux measurement, even though the replacement was a "joker" with lower die height, which gave a larger, less concentrated hotspot (no more donut, though!)

Its possible Surefire is now able to be sure of getting the better bins for its lights and isn't shipping any underperformers, but there is no way to know for sure.

The Luxeon Lottery rules with the LuxV especially, with regard to both flux and tint bins. Thats why I would recommend to anyone who really wants one that they insist on being able to check it out before buying it.

KingSmono said:

Or your U60 is an over-achiever? Did you buy it before there was ever a U85? Maybe it would've been categorized as a U85 if there was such a designation when your light was manufactured.

-Allen

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As I undertand it, the HDS lights are calibrated to a particular output. What will vary is the runtime, not the specified light output. So, if its a U60 it really should be throwing 60 lumens out the front, and a U85 85 lumens. Runtimes between various samples might vary quite a bit, depending on how much current had to be dialed in to achieve the stated output.

I'm confused about the HDS lights, is that LED output or torch output ratings?

To get 85 out the front, you have to have about 120 Lumens of LED output, which is beyond a "U" binned LuxIII, unless it is being overdriven. Are they overdriven as stock lights?

I don't think there are "V" binned LuxIII's yet, are there?

The HDS lights are a mystery to me, I haven't followed them at all, but I keep seeing these impressive output numbers for LuxIII's and my interest level got piqued because of that.

Bill

My understanding is that HDS do not overdrive their LEDs. They must use high binned LEDs..... I guess for the price you pay for a U85, they better be U-bin or higher.

As for my U2, I guess I won the bin lottery, but I do have a slight donut hole. :shrug:

bwaites said:

To get 85 out the front, you have to have about 120 Lumens of LED output, which is beyond a "U" binned LuxIII, unless it is being overdriven. Are they overdriven as stock lights?

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I agree with wasBlinded. It's always prudent to try-before-you-buy, especially with the U2. But I would say that more-often-than-not, you would be getting a U2 that performs better than the stated 80 lumens maximum.

wasBlinded said:

Thats why I would recommend to anyone who really wants one that they insist on being able to check it out before buying it.

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OK, if they don't overdrive, how do they get to 85 lumens.

U binned LEDs will only produce up to 113 Lumens, max. That isn't sufficient to get 85 out the front, and that is at MAX production, not even all U bins will do that. ( Range is 87-113.)

I'm not disputing their claim, just trying to figure out how they do it!!

Bill

Flux.......Min Lumens............Max Lumens
M................13.9...........................18.1
N................18.1........................... 23.5
P.................23.5.......................... 30.6
Q................30.6........................... 39.8
R.................39.8.......................... 51.7
S.................51.7...........................67.2
T.................67.2...........................87.4
U.................87.4..........................113.6
V................113.6.........................147.7

Diode said:

My U2 doesn't blow away my HDS U60. I probably lost the lotto. :shrug:

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I don't know if you should feel too badly. I have an HDS 60 basic that I am certain puts out quite a bit more than 60 lumens (it's surely a "jackpot" light if ever I have had one).

I'm so sad to hearing this. That U2 is much better than U85, which is actually my favorite light. That's drive me crazy.





Any pics to show?

According to HDS FAQ:


"No, we do not overdrive our LEDs. Overdriving an LED produces excessive heat, reduces the efficiency of the LED, reduces the reliability of the LED and rapidly ages the LED which permanently reduces light output...


......Our advanced technology allows our lights to provide superior light output and battery run times without overdriving our LEDs. "



So HDS must be using U or V bins.

No, I didn't take pics of the comparison. But I do have a U85GT coming to me. I'm also getting a Orb Raw Ns. Also, in a few more weeks, I will be getting a 5W WX0S LED tower module that I will use in my M6. Man....I have a sickness.

So, once I get all of that, I'm going to do a massive shoot-out with my light collection with a nice DSLR and a good lens and a lux meter. The shootout will involve:

1) McLux III-PD
2) HDS U60 XRGT
3) HDS U85 GT
4) Orb RAW Ns
5) Amilite Neo T3
6) Peak CPF Special
7) Surefire U2
8) Surefire M6 with WX0S tower module.

I think we all know who the winner is going to be.....but it would be interesting to compare beamshots directly with eachother.

Man, to think I purchased these over the span of 2 and a half months......

:help:

WP

Mi6 said:

I'm so sad to hearing this. That U2 is much better than U85, which is actually my favorite light. That's drive me crazy.





Any pics to show?

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bwaites said:

U binned LEDs will only produce up to 113 Lumens, max. That isn't sufficient to get 85 out the front

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Not even with really good reflectors and lenses?

I agree with the original sentiment. My U2 (100 lumen stated on the package) seems way brighter than 80 lumens. (compared to a HDS 60, a WX0S LuxV light and a 140 lumen incan...)

But then again I ain't complaining

The best reflector and lens efficiency in flashlights seems to only move about 65% of the produced light through the lens, assuming an Ultra Clear Lens and high reflectance reflector. (Better is possible, but not likely because cost rises significantly when you try to get more reflectiveness from the coating, and UCL lenses are about 98-99% efficient.)

Thus, to get 85 Lumens through, even at 70% efficiency, (that assumes that LED's reflectors actually are 5% more efficient than incandescent reflectors, which is where all the tests have been done), the LED would have to produce 120+ lumens.

So far as I know, there are NO "V" binned LuxIII's out there. "U" bins are really rare and will only produce 113 lumens max if not overdriven.

To get 85 lumens out the front of a lens at 113 lumens, requires 75% efficiency of reflector and lens. That's 10% better than the best measured in incans, and I don't think that you can get there, though I'm open to explanations of how it could be done. That also assumes that you hand pick only the 113 lumen LED's and the curve is bell shaped, I wonder how many LED's you have to go through to get one 113 lumens LuxIII?

Bill

wasBlinded said:

As I undertand it, the HDS lights are calibrated to a particular output. What will vary is the runtime, not the specified light output. So, if its a U60 it really should be throwing 60 lumens out the front, and a U85 85 lumens. Runtimes between various samples might vary quite a bit, depending on how much current had to be dialed in to achieve the stated output.

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You may very well be correct.

WAVE_PARTICLE said:

1) McLux III-PD
2) HDS U60 XRGT
3) HDS U85 GT
4) Orb RAW Ns
5) Amilite Neo T3
6) Peak CPF Special
7) Surefire U2
8) Surefire M6 with WX0S tower module.

Man, to think I purchased these over the span of 2 and a half months......

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WOW... 2 and a half months?? Man, wish I had your kinda bank-role.