LED lighting to replace flourescent tubes?

I am interested in finding something better than the old-style flourescent tubes with the older ballasts, currently being used at work. I'm not management, but I am one of their 'idea guys'.

At first, I was looking for an improved flourescent tube, with a digital ballast, when I saw "LED" and became interested.

So my question is, "Is this feasible?z If so, how is it done, how much moneey is involved?" (I'm guessing that if this is possible, and if they are interested, they would like to 'try it out' before jumping in). From the small bit if reading I"ve done, it looks like the LED doesn't use alternating current (per a Wikipedia article). Also, heat may be a factor, since it gets pretty warm during the summer.

If LED's are not a feasible alternative, what is? I'd like to save money in the long term. Thanks!

Your best bet right now is to move to electronic ballasts for the flourescent tubes. They're not "digital" but they pulse the lamps at a frequency many times higher than 60hz, actually in the 20khz neighborhood. They're far more efficient than the old magnetic ballasts, they offer instant-on, and they produce a more pleasing light without that annoying flicker or strobing.

LEDs have still got a ways to go before they can top a regular ol' fluorescent lamp with a decent ballast.

Dragon said:

If LED's are not a feasible alternative, what is? I'd like to save money in the long term. Thanks!

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LEDs are far too expensive and not yet efficient enough to replace flourescent lighting. Your best bet is to go for T8 or T5 flourescents. If you choose well, a T8 or T5 setup can manage 90lm/w efficiency from total input power. LEDs cannot touch this. See http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/nlpip/lightingAnswers/lat5/pc7.asp for some numbers on T5 and T8 efficiency.

Agree with enLIGHTenment, but id like to point that lm/watt efficiency isnt the only issue to notice. Fluorescents tubes loses about 20% (up to 30%) of its light at reflector.

So less led efficiency (in lm/watt) is required to equal the flux levels of fluos luminaries.

Probably next year will be white leds with efficiencies near 100lm/w. 70lm/w is enough to be a good alternative to fluo lighting. Price is the main obstacle now. Its neccesary some years to be cost effective.

I am responsible for lighting a facility, so I've been through this. It is possible to use LEDs for general area lighting, but it is not a good business decision at this time. The newer fluorescent tube lights (the ones with the skinny bulbs) are probably an easy, sensible decision. They will fit right into your existing fixtures. Try to get some kind of mirror finish on the fixture above the bulb.

Ken_McE said:

The newer fluorescent tube lights (the ones with the skinny bulbs) are probably an easy, sensible decision. They will fit right into your existing fixtures.

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Don't you need to replace the ballasts for real T8s, though? There are low output psuedo-T8s out there that work with T12 fixtures and ballasts, but they're really a half-assed measure compared to a full-up T8 installation.

enLIGHTenment said:

Don't you need to replace the ballasts for real T8s, though? There are low output psuedo-T8s out there that work with T12 fixtures and ballasts, but they're really a half-assed measure compared to a full-up T8 installation.

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Looks like I'll probably be suggesting electronic ballasts, anyway. I confess not knowing exactly what type flourescent tube they are using, but they are long ones, which I suspect are the type that have been used for years. And, I occassionally see them replacing ballasts, which is why I figured they were using the old style ballasts. Don't the electronic ones last longer? Is there more than one electronic ballast? BTW, what is the "psuedo-T8" and what are it's operating characteristics? I've not previously heard of them.

If there is a type of flourescent tube that might be better, then that would be a good thing.

I'm very happy to have found this forum. It seems to be very active, with lots of very helpful people.

BTW, the flourescent tubes are used only in areas where there is a relatively low ceiling. The rest of the building has what is probably something like argon lights -- some type of lighting that takes several seconds to get bright. Maybe there could be an alternative to that as well. It just had not occurred to me to ask earlier.

To be entirely frank, you're in over your head. If you go forward with this project not knowing what you're doing, you could very easily waste a lot of company money to no positive effect--and likely get yourself fired in the process.

I suggest you contract a lighting design engineer and have them look at the site and business requirements. Redesigning a lighting system, especially a high-bay system, is complex and site-specific. In addition to the technical issues of bulb and technology selection, there are occupational health and safety, fire safety, and electrical safety regulations that must be complied with. The kind of advice you need to get everything right and squeeze the last practical cent out of energy costs is not going to be found on a web forum. Getting it right calls for paying a professional.

In the long run, it'll be cheaper to contract an engineer and get the lighting system upgraded right the first time than to blow a lot of money on the wrong solutions and have to re-do the installation when it doesn't work.

I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but this is something you needed to hear.

Thanks, enLIGHTenment, but I'm just an idea guy. I take a look at things -- processes and how things might be done more easily or efficiently, how things are put together and suggest how then can be made better, and so forth. My suggestions may put on the back burner, rejected outright, or else accepted. It is their decision, not mine.

I've pretty much decided to stick to the electronic ballast idea for now. I can see how everything else is more complicated and demands more time and effort. Your earlier link showed me immediately how specific instances (such as environmental factors like ambient temperatures) can make a difference.