Turned off by Pila

I was looking into getting a Pila light/battery/charger combo until I started looking at the Pila manufacturer website. Lights that are rated at, say, 120 lumens are only able to achieve about half of that because the Pila cells only run at 3.7 volts. To get the full brightness that the light is capable of producing requires the use of disposable lithium primaries. That's exactly what I was trying to avoid. I can get a ton of other great lights that use disposable cells.

Why would Pila do this? Wouldn't they expect their 600 cells to replace 2 CR123s and two of their 300 cells to replace 3 CR123s? Why don't they have the 600 run at 6 volts and the 300 at 4.5? If you have control over design of the light AND the cells AND the charger, why not make it work the right way? I was looking for a convenient package for guilt-free lumens but why would I pay for a light that I'll never get full brightness out of because I'm using rechargables?

You, my friend, should sign up for the Pila GL3 passaround and see with your own eyes whether this "difference" is there or not.

A cell's voltage is determined by its chemistry (nominal 3.6 for li-ion). There's no way to change that, unless you come up with a completely different chemistry.

Let me get this straight... You're saying that you can't notice the difference between 120 lumens on CR123s and 60 lumens on Pila rechargables? I'm not pulling these figures out of my ***, they're from the Pila website.

When a cheap flashlight manufacturer makes strong claims I'm skeptical, but when the numbers are strongly against their own product I'm inclined to think they just might be telling the truth.

Edit: The GL3 does not list different output for the different battery types. Unfortunately, I was looking for something smaller.

Rando said:

You're saying that you can't notice the difference between 120 lumens on CR123s and 60 lumens on Pila rechargables?

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No. I'm saying lumen output is only part of the story. In all fairness, this is not a Pila-exclusive issue; you'll get this same difference with all incandescent lights out there (no regulation to keep output up, like with LEDs).... that is if they could even use primaries and rechargeables, which Pila can do right out of the box.

Pila lights are grossly underated by people. They are among the best options for rechargeable lights, you get double-wammy with the LED tailcaps, they're built like tanks, you can still use primaries, etc. You'll have the hardest time finding any other lights that are as versatile as Pila lights.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all disparaging Pila's lights. I'm drooling over them, in fact. I just think that their rechargable solution is poor. Why wouldn't it be better to just get two 3.0v RCR123's? It would be cheaper than one Pila 600p. Granted, you would lose about 400-500 mAH. It would be worth it to me, and I think most people, to double your light output.

Rando said:

Why wouldn't it be better to just get two 3.0v RCR123's? It would be cheaper than one Pila 600p. Granted, you would lose about 400-500 mAH. It would be worth it to me, and I think most people, to double your light output.

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You've hit the nail on the head with cell capacity (=runtime).

I'm not in the "most" people bandwagon when it comes to sheer brightness.

The problem is that they use the the same LA for both Primaries and Li-Ion, that works very well in the GL3, but not in the GL2 and GL4. For the GL2 and GL4 they should have made separate LAs for Li-Ion, didn't they have this before for the GL2? And before the GL4 could run GL3 LA, I don't think it can do that anymore.
If getting a Pila now, and you want to run on Li-Ions, I see the GL3 as the only option.
Btw, does anyone know if there is a difference between the old GL3 LA and the new one, does it have the same brightness? I know the old was rated 130 lumens but the specifications are not always correct. Comparing the old and new ratings, the new LA must be driven much harder and should therefore be whiter, has anyone tried both the new and old and can tell me if my assumption is correct?

New GL3 lamp is brighter, whiter, and the beam is much tighter (has a smaller and brighter hotspot, with bright, uniform corona) - throw is increased as an added bonus.

Thanks for the info, would you say it is as bright as the old GL4 (which was rated 195 lumens on primaries)?
I might just have to get one to try it out.

Does anyone know how it compares to a Streamlight TL-3 in output?

Rando said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all disparaging Pila's lights. I'm drooling over them, in fact. I just think that their rechargable solution is poor. Why wouldn't it be better to just get two 3.0v RCR123's? It would be cheaper than one Pila 600p. Granted, you would lose about 400-500 mAH. It would be worth it to me, and I think most people, to double your light output.

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I have been using 3 x RCR123A 3.0 volt protected regulated li-ion cells in my old style Pila GL3, modified with the new 200 lumens lamp assembly, and am VERY happy with the output. I had used the old style Pila 150A cells in this GL3 with the old 130 lu LA and thought the output was good. I have lately used 2 x 18500 cells in this GL3 with the 200 lu LA and was quite happy with the output.

That is what is good about the Pila line - you can get the highest output LA for your G2, 3 or 4, and either the LED or tactical tail-cap, then you can get all 3 types of power sources: disposable 123A, rechargeable 123A and rechargeable 18 mm x 50 mm (Pila or otherwise).

I have even started a mini-pass-around up here with non-CPF members of my Pila GL3 with both rechargeable 123A and rechargeable 18 mm x 50 mm type cells and their chargers. The participants will pay postage both ways, or each kick in some scheckles to cover my postage sending it to the 1st person and they pass it onto the next person until it returns to me. I just may create some new CPF members and/or Pila owners (or desirerers!)

MSI said:

Thanks for the info, would you say it is as bright as the old GL4 (which was rated 195 lumens on primaries)?
I might just have to get one to try it out.

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I wish I had them handy to refresh my memory. I know old GL4 is brighter than the old GL3, but I don't have a new GL3 to compare.

MSI said:

The problem is that they use the the same LA for both Primaries and Li-Ion, that works very well in the GL3, but not in the GL2 and GL4. For the GL2 and GL4 they should have made separate LAs for Li-Ion, didn't they have this before for the GL2? And before the GL4 could run GL3 LA, I don't think it can do that anymore.
If getting a Pila now, and you want to run on Li-Ions, I see the GL3 as the only option.
Btw, does anyone know if there is a difference between the old GL3 LA and the new one, does it have the same brightness? I know the old was rated 130 lumens but the specifications are not always correct. Comparing the old and new ratings, the new LA must be driven much harder and should therefore be whiter, has anyone tried both the new and old and can tell me if my assumption is correct?

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Rando said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all disparaging Pila's lights. I'm drooling over them, in fact. I just think that their rechargable solution is poor. Why wouldn't it be better to just get two 3.0v RCR123's? It would be cheaper than one Pila 600p. Granted, you would lose about 400-500 mAH. It would be worth it to me, and I think most people, to double your light output.

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they used to use a 9v in the rechargeable version of the old GL4s, but there was the danger of people confusing the rechargeable versions (9v) with the non-rechargeable versions (12v) and putting primaries in the rechargeable versions and blowing the bulbs =) so they went ahead and used the 12v lamps in all gl4s eventually.

anyway all this is very much limited by battery chemistries and tradeoffs. the 3.0v rcr123s didn't come into being until sometime late last year, by which time the Pilas have already been on the market for at least 2-3 years. and this doesn't even consider that there is much to be desired with the 3.0v rcr123s, which are still actually 3.7v, but use a circuit to cut voltage off. you don't get the full capacity of the battery, and what would happen if your circuit fails?

the strengths of the Pilas is that you can use both primaries and rechargeables effortlessly. and you can even use higher capacity rechargeables for much longer times. most others don't have such a rechargeable-primary solution, particularly for incans. only custom flashlights can reach that level of flexibility with battery types, and most of those in the LED realm. besides, while you may _notice_ the difference in brightness, how much of a difference it makes is another subject of debate =) if it makes enough of a difference, get a new GL3, which runs at spec on both primaries and rechargeables =)

Old GL4 at 195 lumens (left) and 130 lumens (right):

:kewlpics: Somy!

Do you have such a comparison for the GL3?

greenLED said:

:kewlpics: Somy!

Do you have such a comparison for the GL3?

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:thanks: GreenLED!

Unfortunately I don't have a GL3, and my location makes it difficult for me to be in the passaround

Once i sort my next job out though, I am planning to get a GL4 with both bulbs. Pretty much every light that passes through my hands get "the beamshot treatment", so if that goes to plan, I will definitely have beamshots of that!

Somy Nex said:

Unfortunately I don't have a GL3, and my location makes it difficult for me to be in the passaround

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The GL3 will be in Australia, I'd be glad to have it sent your way for a few days. Think about it and post on the passaround thread if it interests you.

I've got the old style G2/GL2 lights in stock with the LA's for the rechargeable batteries.

greenLED said:

The GL3 will be in Australia, I'd be glad to have it sent your way for a few days. Think about it and post on the passaround thread if it interests you.

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Hi GreenLed

Thank you for the offer, I am very interested, but I must decline. I've lost a number of lights going through the regular mail service here and now only use courier/EMS services as I cannot risk that again. All added up, the shipping costs to and from me will come up to about 2/3 the price of a new GL3/GL4!

I'll be inbetween jobs soon, and going on a holiday later this month, so $$ will be tight, but my plan is to just go ahead and spend the money (once it comes) on a new GL4 or GL3 of my own

I do appreciate and thank you for considering me in the passaround though :twothumbs

I have been looking at PILA lights since before the more recent design. I like the LED tail cap.I know that on many PILA lights the run times and power on rechargables are different than primary cells.
OTOH, I think the GL3 has EQUAL OUTPUT on the rechargable cell. That is he one I'd buy first.
With my C3, G2, and Pelican M6 , I haven't taken the "PILA plunge" yet.
I need to hold back until I've had my HDS 42 XR GT a few weeks!

umm.. are the lamp for the gl4 and gl3 the same? are the interchangeable?

GL3 and GL4 lamps are not interchangeable.
The GL3 is a great light. It is bright on either primaries or rechargeable cells.

The GL4 will be brighter on the Primaries as it has a 12v lamp.

I run mine with the new 550 lumen lamp. It kicks butt big time and lights up like daylight.