New Arc-LS ..... no thanks.

Unflattering comment about Arc .... violation of rule #4.

Hmm everyone I know who has looked at the new Proto Types are very excited about the next generation light. I guess each into there own.

I'm partial to simple on/off lights too. With a high flux led with low vf, you could have an updated version with lots more light and runtime.

A two stage light is about as complex as I'm willing to go. Something like twist on/low/high would be nice.

The final straw for me was the "Lifetime" Guarantee they came out with a few months before folding. Tell me and make me believe they didn't know that they were in financial trouble then.

Click to expand...

It makes one wonder if the same thing might be happening again.

Hello GD and welcome to the CPF. I am flattered you found the Arc forum so quickly.

You know of course you can do whatever you want with whatever products are available or upcoming. That's the free market.

Btw, surely you know that the lifetime guarantee has been around a lot longer than for a few months in 2004 (RE your post: "...came out with a few months before..."). You probably also did not know we offered and continue to offer a full store credit on the Arc4 for those who ask. I have repeated this several times in this very forum. May I suggest you take advantage of that offer?

As far as how easy the new LS is to use, I have already answered that question in the appropiate thread. And be sure that long before you are compelled to spend any money, there will be other people, trusted by the CPF, who will have actually tested in person the new light and vouched for its value or lack there of.

peter

Hey, my Arc4+ is working fine. I have found that it is really an intuitive instrument. The more I use it the better it performs. I doubt that I am an exception, I am sure more Arc 4+ units worked as designed than did not work as designed. I would not give up on my Arc 4+. It was innovative for its time.

G.D., judging from the number of Arc products you have, and the knowledge of old time Arc history, I'm left wondering if perhaps you've been active with CPF. I'll admit that at the time being, I don't know. It may be time now though, for you to acquaint yourself with what is now referred to as Arc. It's not the old company.

Your efforts to enlighten are rather late, seeing that they've all been rehashed and addressed months ago.

We, meaning CPF, finds some difficulty in the creation, direction and the inflammatory/baiting spirit of your thread.

If there is a serious wish to address the complaints you've raised regarding the older Arc company, it's owner and the non-legally binding guarantee of their products, some simple searching of this forum's threads will contain more than enough information for you without reopening the topic. You'll likely find your concerns to be addressed in a manner that exceeds any obligation, and to be more generous than is required. You need only to read them.

Presently, you're in violation of CPF rule #4 regarding flaming and baiting.

You're were also in violation of CPF rule #3 regarding avatars. Your avatar has been removed.

A seriousness of purpose could be demonstrated by an edit of your post to address your questions without the flaming and baiting. It will presently be left open, due to some underlying reasonable comments and suggestions.

Gransee said:

we offered and continue to offer a full store credit on the Arc4 for those who ask.

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"Full" store credit? I recently (July 2006) emailed Peter about this regarding my unreliable ARC4+ and was offered a store credit of $160 if I send the light back to Peter. I paid $180 (plus shipping) for the flashlight.

I *am* interested in trading in my unreliable ARC 4+ for store credit towards the upcoming LS. Would be nice to get the touted "full" store credit, rather than the partial store credit that I was offered via email by Peter. How do I qualify?

Peter, any clarification on this store credit offer would be appreciated, as I think I should get as much store credit as the next guy???

A $160 credit for an old Arc 4 seems pretty decent to me. I had to close a business and it took everything I had to make sure all my customers got their money back. Not one of them ever thanked me. People are just that way.

I bought one of the first Arc4s and it has worked perfectly. It is my most used and most useful indoor light. I use only three levels (very dim, medium and full bright), and at that level of use, the light is easy to operate. I much prefer it to a two-stage twistie.

I also have three LS models, two of which have been or are being upgraded to U-bin LuxIIIs. One I EDC from my belt loop for super fast access. To me, the LS is a wonderful one-stage light. Super easy to use and very small and very nicely designed.

I can't wait for Peter to come out with the new LS. Thanks, Peter, for all the great products you've produced.

Josey

Re: New Arc-LS .....

Thanks Joesy. I think we may have shared shoes.

my apologies adrenochrome. I shouldn't have said, "full". How do I know what the cost of this was to each and every person? Some people paid more, some paid less.

Most of you know that it is unusual for a new business to pay for the warranty of an old business product. You also understand that if I do make an offer to credit money or repair units, that I will try to make it available "fairly" to anyone that asks.

Please understand that the store credit is not an official program. I originally did it for some people who were suffering a hardship and asked nicely for relief. The amount offered depended on how much the person felt they had got from the use of the light while they had it minus the purchase price. It was very informal and meant to win over customers. But word got out and it was then felt by some to now be a "right" of theirs. I then had to standardize the offer somewhat to $160 or what you paid, whatever was less. I also announced this offer publically several times in an effort to make peace with all the disaffected. After all the bluster, very people took me up on my offer. Not surprising I guess.

Of course, the idea of a "full" refund is in the eye of the beholder and the idea of a credit in the face of many many other people suffering loss is, I hope, seen as special favor. But I am not allowed to call what some feel is their God given right, "special favor". After all, no one suffered like they did.

Peter

I had a slight problem with the finish on the reflector of my ARC4+ and was offered $160.00 by Gransee, if i wanted to return it to him a couple of months ago.

I decided to keep the ARC4+, but it was a fantastic offer from Gransee as i only paid $120.00 for it second-hand.

but i consider my ARC4+ a piece of history.

thankyou.

John.

Peter, thanks for the clarification. I'm not demanding anything from you, nor am I seeking "special favor". You made a public offer for store credit on defective ARC 4's and I plan on taking you up on that offer when the upcoming LS is available. My question pertained to "full" store credit versus "partial" store credit, and that has been answered.

Good day to all.

adrenochrome said:

Peter, thanks for the clarification. I'm not demanding anything from you, nor am I seeking "special favor". You made a public offer for store credit on defective ARC 4's and I plan on taking you up on that offer when the upcoming LS is available. My question pertained to "full" store credit versus "partial" store credit, and that has been answered.

Good day to all.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the civility. We are still waiting on the edit of the original post, however.

My ARC+4 is superb in every way, never had any kind of problem with it over the last 2+ years and I use it almost everyday. There can't be many other lights of this quality that can boast that.

A very happy customer.

Looking forward to the new LS!


Be lucky...

welcome to cpf or should I say welcome back to cpf
you seem very well aquinted with cpf with only 6 posts.

a few clarifications are in order....

Henry as in HDS is the one directly responsible for the now imfamous design of ARC4+. Along with ARC4+'s ground breaking electronic design (which has proven to be almost trouble free). ARC4+ has perhaps the most sensitive to battery length design of ANY production light. Perhaps some of your venting should be directed to to HDS?

please correct me if I'm wrong, but to date HDS has taken all the credits for the advance design of ARC4+. but has refused to take blame for the super sensitive to battery length design of AR4+.

based upon loads of cpf feedback, there were only a few thousands difference between 1st run ARC4's (reliable) and second run ARC4's well known problems.

early AR4+'s were for the most part pretty reliable, except for the above mentioned battery length issues. if you dropped ARC4+ directly on end, it would possibly crush AR4+ domed micro-switch.

if you really are concerned repairing your ARC4+, do a simple search for the old ARC4+ flat tailcap mods. which adressed that issue. Or take Peter up on the more than generous offer of $160 store credit.

it's hard to predict what will happen in business. but when something goes wrong..... IMHO it's how you take care of the after math.

Peter has stepped up and offered within his means a way for anyone with an old ARC with problems. Essentially a way to honor ARC's old commitments to the end user.

GeorgiaDave said:

As I own 5 prior LS models, a now paperweight Arc 4+, a AA, and too many AAAs to count (Standard, Premium, CPF Edition, Etc) I believe I will pass on the new LS model.

While the LSH-P and LSH-PF models are still going strong, Arc got in WAY over it's head with the 4+. The final straw for me was the "Lifetime" Guarantee they came out with a few months before folding. Tell me and make me believe they didn't know that they were in financial trouble then.

Gransee should make another simple, useful, sturdy light like the LSH-P/LSH-PF, taking advantage of newer led technology, or change his name to Reuben Lucius Goldberg and create another useless pile of crap like the 4+.

G.D.

Click to expand...

Thanks CY, but I should correct just one thing you said.

The Arc4 was my responsibility. Henry did push for certain changes, but ultimately I was the one who approve or disproved them. If anyone has a beef with how he did his job, it would be his supervisor (me) and not the customers.

Peter

Hi Peter.

I would like to add that your store credit policy on dissatisfied products from an old company is incredibly generous - in fact I do not know of another case where a company went bankrupt but later on, the owner honored his old company's committments through the new company. Although I know that I have "old credit" with you, I have never taken advantage of it - that doesn't mean I won't when the new LS comes out!

I once had a $3,000 custom kevlar canoe that I returned to the factory for some warranty work (Blackhawk Canoes out of Janesville, WI). That next weekend, the company went into receivership. Obviously the owner knew what was going on when he took my canoe in for repair. I have never heard from the company or owner again after years of attempted contacts.

Again, Peter thanks for taking the high road with your business model.

Looking forward to the new LS.

Regards.

there is no point in digging old dirt! (sorry to be blunt)
when the company went down, Arc AAA was around 5 times the orignal cost... and thats true value of the products....

New Arc AAA Rev4 is a great light... and upcoming LS would be wonderful too....

may i request mods/admins to lock down on this one.... lets move on... future is Bright & More Lights

Suck it up princess, Peter's store credit for the arc4 goes far beyond expectations.

If you dont like it your arc4 send it back and get a store credit from the store you didnt buy the light from. Woooooowwwww See if your local department store will do that for you.


Sorry to all, dont mean to be rude

The originator of the thread has edited his post (thank you), thus giving no true topic remaining to the thread. We'll close this one. Any tangential topics that have been generated, that needs more discussion, can be reintroduced in a new thread.