Stupid newbie question

copierguy_mobile

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I'm am not yet wise in the ways of LEDs.

Can somebody explain this "bin" system to me?

is it brighness? or color? or something else?

and can you have your choice of bin if you order a light online?

thanks in advance.
 

carrot

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You usually do not get a choice of bins when you order your light online. Due to the way Lumileds sells their LEDs it tends to be hard or at least somewhat expensive to get the exact bin you want, unless you want to buy a whole tray of LEDs. That just might change, however, with Cree's new LEDs.
 

Newuser01

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MayCooper said:
Hahaha!! Very funny.
I think there was a LED thread that explained everything but search is'nt work a d@#$ right now.

Anyways....I do not think that you should warry about it unless you are heavily into modding.

Happyhollidays.
Noob.
PS. There is no such thing as stupid question.
decemberforetoldry9.jpg
 

Raybo

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Years back when the Lumineds "TWOH" was a hot item I bought one from a group buy, another member (a well known modder) that was late on the group buy posted an ad to buy one so I sold it to him.

To make a long story short he told me that the emitter was a high "J" bin and was not happy with the color, go figure, no one else complained out of the 50 or so members that bought them.

I will not mention any names but you have to realize that it's not an exact science and there might be slight differences in the EXACT same bins.


Ray
 
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Raybo

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Concept said:
The bins have various information in them.

A Luxeon III TWOH for example is broken up like this T/WO/H

T = Flux (67.2 - 87.4)
WO = tint or colour of the beam (warm white?)
H = forward voltage (3.03 - 3.27 )

Here is a link to the Lumileds site which has all of these details. http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/AB21.pdf

Did I miss something?

Ray
 

Raybo

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Concept said:
The bins have various information in them.

A Luxeon III TWOH for example is broken up like this T/WO/H

T = Flux (67.2 - 87.4)
WO = tint or colour of the beam (warm white?)
H = forward voltage (3.03 - 3.27 )

Here is a link to the Lumileds site which has all of these details. http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/AB21.pdf

A high "J" bin is not even close to a "H" bin, 3.27FV is the cut off, so what is your point?

I'm not angry about your post Concept but it just seems to me that certain people might scew some the numbers to their favor (take advantage).

:duck:
 

FirstDsent

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Here's a "big picture" answer that you are unlikely to get searching these forums.
See the recommended threads for explanation of each company's bin structure. Here is a valuable page from The Sandwich Shoppe that explains Luxeon bins.

When a company (let's say Lumileds, maker of the Luxeon line of LEDs) makes a white LED, they have target values for luminous flux (how bright it is), color (what shade of white), and forward voltage ("Vf" -how many volts of DC it takes to produce light). If they could make all their LEDs at their target values, they would. However, the manufacturing process and materials for these LEDs have minute variations that make each LED brighter, or dimmer, higher or lower Vf, or yellower, or purpler.

They choose a target value near the center of the statistical distribution curve for these values so that most of their products fall within the advertised specifications. Some LEDs will be dimmer than spec, some will be brighter than spec. Ditto for Vf. They test the emitters to determine how bright, what color, and what Vf they are. Then they sort them into "bins" according to the results. We usually refer to a Luxeon LED as a "U-bin", or a "W-bin". This refers to the flux, or brightness bin.

Exceptional LEDs, with high flux and low Vf are called "flyers" by Lumileds. S-bin Luxeon 1, U-bin Luxeon III, and X-bin Luxeon V emitters are flyers. They are relatively uncommon, and exceed most of their customers needs. When they fill their typical customers' orders, they don't include flyers. You wouldn't want to make a traffic light, or an electronic billboard with a couple extra-bright LEDs. That would be a flaw. The more control Lumileds has over their materials and processes, the fewer of these exceptional LEDs they will make.

Lumileds does something stupid with their distribution system. We call it the "Luxeon Lottery". For small orders, you can only get Luxeon LEDs from Lumileds' partner distributor, Future Electronics, Inc. You can only specify that you want a white Luxeon III for instance. You can't select individual brightness, color (tint), or Vf. When you get your white Luxeon III, it may be awesome, or it may be crap. You have no control. If you order a large quantity, you can specify certain bins, provided Lumileds has them on hand. However, Lumileds charges a premium price for them.

Flyers are what we look for to use in flashlights, because we want the brightest LED with the lowest Vf. That is one measure of efficiency. Some companies like Cree, seem to be more cooperative with bin selection, and may have smaller minimum order quantities.

You should realize that flashlights are only a minute sector of the LED market, so the manufacturers don't really care much about our desires or complaints. an order from a large flashlight manufacturer may be a few thousand emitters. An order from a billboard company may be several hundred thousand.

The manufacturer of your flashlight may have been able to specify their bins, so they might advertise the bins of their flashlights. Some companies may have several to choose from. Usually just two or three. They will charge a premium for their brightest lights. Some flashlights discussed on this forum have flyer bins available. For Luxeon III emitters, T-bin is common, U-bin is exceptional.

Bernie
 
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copierguy_mobile

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Thanks for all the info guys. I didn't realize it was that complicated.


Newuser01:

Your prob right about it not being a big deal (yet). I've got an Inova T2 on the way to replace my X0 (the original one) and was mostly wondering if I had neglected to look at an important spec prior to ordering it. I guess I'll just keep my finger crossed.


As I get more and more into this hobby I realize I have a bunch of Mag lights laying around that could use a boost. I'm pretty handy w/ a soldering iron so some modding may be in my future.

-Greg
 

BentHeadTX

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copierguy_mobile said:
As I get more and more into this hobby I realize I have a bunch of Mag lights laying around that could use a boost. I'm pretty handy w/ a soldering iron so some modding may be in my future.

-Greg

Greg,
I don't think it will be a "maybe" when you mod your first Mag! Check out the modders forum and take a look at the "PXR" copper heat sink. Add a regulator and see what four Cree XRE (bin P2/P3/P4 or Q2/Q3) LEDs can do.
Now that you know about bin codes, this just means the addiction grows.
 

Owen

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Raybo said:
To make a long story short he told me that the emitter was a high "J" bin and was not happy with the color, go figure, no one else complained out of the 50 or so members that bought them.

I will not mention any names but you have to realize that it's not an exact science and there might be slight differences in the EXACT same bins.
Absolutely. No way they're testing and measuring each and every emitter, and when you get a bunch of them, it's almost a given that some will be out of spec or "misbinned".
Not to mention that some of the larger bins have a large amount of variance within the bin to begin with.
I hate any kind of green tint, which immediately brings to mind the X1 bin. But the YO bin bumps up against X1 on the chart, and is usually thought of as blue. I've had YOs that were as green as any X1 I've seen, and an X1 that looked like a WO. Sucks that one of my worst YOs was a UYOK I paid $30 for, and that wonderful X1 was a SX1J getting swapped for a much brighter T bin at the time, but I guess that's the way it goes. I've had great luck with the XO and WO bins, but that makes sense, as those bins are very small, and allow little variance--though that doesn't change the fact that you could get one that was binned wrong.

I think FirstDsent's post was great, with a lot of good info summed up succinctly.
 
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