Surefire L1: can you confirm the different generations?

Hi Folks,

With reference to post #8 on this thread:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=114492
Anyone have any knowledge of the different generations as described in the referenced post? Confirmaton or comments much appreciated.

I am particularly interested in whether the 2nd generation is described correctly / in fact existed:
1 watt and scallop (ie new shape) head - says on box 20 hours on low.........
Did this 2nd generation (1 watt) have a TIR optic?

Thank you in advance.
Boet

1 watt and scallop (ie new shape) head

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Both the old style and new style heads came with scalloped edges. The new heads are longer and have a less triangular shape between the anti-roll hex and the front of the bezel.

- says on box 20 hours on low

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I have an "old" L1 (actually the very end of the old L1 production, which may make it a "third gen" L1 according to one of the posts in the thread you cited) that has a box that says "Over 20 hours of low-beam runtime." The instructions inside dated 6-1-2003 simply say "longer than one hour."

According to this post this light should actually have a high dome emitter, but I haven't disassembled it to check. BTW, I don't think there's any evidence that the old style L1s ever had a 3 watt emitter, but with Surefire you can probably never say never.

JNewell said:

BTW, I don't think there's any evidence that the old style L1s ever had a 3 watt emitter, but with Surefire you can probably never say never.

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Actually, it's widely accepted that the later "generations" before the change to TIR all had 3-watt emitters. The first L1 I had was an old-style head with a three watter. If it comes in the old grey packaging it most likely has a one watt. If it comes in the red folding packaging with the clear plastic pack, it's likely a three watt.

Actually, it's widely accepted that the later "generations" before the change to TIR all had 3-watt emitters.

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I'd be interested in learning more about that. The old style L1 was discontinued in 2005, I believe. Although Surefire is notoriously casual about packaging obsolete instruction booklets with their lights, the 2004 catalog (which you'd hope got a little more attention) did contain the following descriptions of the L1. It is possible that the marketing people who put together the catalog weren't aware of actual production changes, of course. It would be good to know more about these changes.

Looking at the performance of the different models, the L1 LumaMax operates on one lithium battery to power a one watt Luxeon LED.The light output is modest: 13 lumens on low and 20 lumens on high

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One-watt, digitally controlled LED flashlight. Lightweight with broad, general purpose beam. Perfect for hunting, fishing and camping. Construction: aerospace-grade aluminum with MilSpec hard anodizing, stainless steel pocket clip, patented lock-out tailcap.

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JNewell:
I have posted my query because a shop in my area has a Surefire L1 for sale (only one in stock). And it looks to me to be the generation 2 in the post I cited. And according to that post it appears to be a 1 watt light.
From your description it looks like you have the exact same "generation" as the one I am interested in purchasing.
If you have time, please refer to my thread http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=151638, particularly post #1 and post #11 where I have strived to describe the particular light and packaging being sold - including the same instructions dated 6-1-2003.
Unfortunately I do not have access to another L1 to visually compare dimensions or other differences.
Are you unsure as to whether you have a Lux III (3 watt)? And that is my quandry - is the light I wish to purchase a Lux III - or Lux I (1 watt)? Maybe you have the definitive answer. Other folks have kindly given opinions, but your description of what you have seems to come closest to the particular light I have my eye on.

Does your light have the TIR optic? Which "wattage" do you think it is?
The body of your light - does it have 3 "flats" or 4 flat sides?

The price of this light is high, and I will be devastated to learn that I have laid out hard earned cash for an "old" generation (1 watt). The shop is not giving a discount as if for "old stock", but charging as a current model.

Valpo Hawkeye:
The light in question is in not in grey packaging nor red folding packaging. It comes in a red box with a flap to open on the end (not a lid). Inside is a plastic tray to slide out, in which the light rests. It comes with a nice lanyard.

Thank you for your responses!
Boet

The first thing I should say is that I'm really not certain about much of anything on the L1 right now...see my question above. However...

From your description it looks like you have the exact same "generation" as the one I am interested in purchasing.

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The light in question is in not in grey packaging nor red folding packaging. It comes in a red box with a flap to open on the end (not a lid). Inside is a plastic tray to slide out, in which the light rests. It comes with a nice lanyard.

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And from your description, I agree - you are looking at the same light I have. Mine is a 2004 light and it came in the packaging you describe. The lanyard is supposedly the best tip-off that an L1 has the high-dome LED.

Does your light have the TIR optic? Which "wattage" do you think it is? The body of your light - does it have 3 "flats" or 4 flat sides?

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Mine does not have the TIR optic, just the plain AR-coated window. It has four flats. I have no idea whether it's 1 or 3 watt, though. I had always understood that all the pre-TIR L1 lights had 1 watt LEDs, but maybe that's not the case...

Maybe you have the definitive answer.

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'fraid not...hoping to learn more in this thread. BTW, it's funny to read your description of how your local vendor is selling the light. I recently found a second one of these, exactlyl like an earlier L1 I purchased. It was the store's demo (although it was cosmetically and functionally perfect and still had the box, lanyard, etc. with it). No discount! I figured I was lucky to find an old version - Lighthound had the last of those that I could find online - so I bought it cheerfully.

Edit to add: the serial numbers on the two L1s I've got are very close to each other. I would be interested and grateful if you have a chance to post the serial number for the light you are looking at. I believe the two numbers of my lights, s/ns A10910 and A11060, are near the end of the old style production run, but (again) am looking for any information on the L1 and its various changes.

JNewell:
This is weird - our packaging is the same (and this includes the Operator's Manual dated - 6-1-2003), yet the lights are different.
The light in question has the TIR optics? (like a bulge inside the window) not a see-through window. The light has 3 flats, not 4.
The serial # is A183xx.

The Operator's Manual avaiable for download on the surefire.com website is dated Revision B 8-1-2005, and still lists the light as a 1 watt. Weird.

The majority of folks who responded to my previous thread seem to be of the opinion that "my" light is a 3 watt. Maybe I should just close my eyes to the horrendous alternative (that they are wrong ) and buy it.
In fact, I think I will. .

JNewell, thanks for the discussion. I think what swayed me is the differences in your and "my" lights. The main differences are: 3 flats vs 4, and the TIR optic. By most accounts the 3 flats is the newest body, and the TIR optics guarantee the 3 watt LED.

Thank you for listening, folks.
Boet

So, your light is a 3-sided body with TIR optic? I vote for 3 watt, but read this from the 2005 Surefire catalog. Maybe this explains why we're kinda crossed-up on this light. Remember that the "new" L1 was introduced in the 2005 catalog. I underscored the text that I think will interest you.

The L1 LumaMax features a new single-die 3 watt Luxeon LED driven at 1 watt while the L2 LumaMax employs a four-die 5 watt Luxeon LED. The L1's light output is 0.7 lumens at low (50 hours) and 15 lumens at high (2 hours) and the L2's output is 15 lumens at low (18 hours) and 100 lumens at high (1 hour). The L1 is available in white, red, blue and green.​

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Best luck, enjoy your L1 - I'm sure you will.

JNewell:
I do like the throw beam of the TIR optic. It's what I am looking for, together with the two stage light.

"The L1 LumaMax features a new single-die 3 watt Luxeon LED driven at 1 watt while the L2 LumaMax employs a four-die 5 watt Luxeon LED. The L1's light output is 0.7 lumens at low (50 hours) and 15 lumens at high (2 hours) and the L2's output is 15 lumens at low (18 hours) and 100 lumens at high (1 hour). The L1 is available in white, red, blue and green."

Well now, the above gives me pause for thought.
The final generation L1 is 1.1 lumens low for 90 hours and 22 lumens high. With 3 watt.

What does the picture in your 2005 catalogue show?
A new shape head? Does it have TIR optics?

So "my" light may be a 1 watt after all (driven at) and 0.7 lumens at low and 15 lumens at high. It has the new shape head and TIR optic though..........??? (by new shape head I mean the head which does not have the hexagonal shape on the lower part).

Please tell me what the picture in the catologue shows.

Thanks for your help.
Boet the confused

What does the picture in your 2005 catalogue show?
A new shape head? Does it have TIR optics?

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Your light should look like this.

I think you have a 3w LED driven at 1w. Bottom line, though, if you LIKE the light, don't worry, be happy!

JNewell:
Thanks for the reply.
I have concluded and agree with you that "my" light is the 3w driven at 1w, with specs as per the description you provided.
And it looks like the one on the link you provided.

Can you answer a final question?:
Does the picture in your 2005 catalogue show a TIR optic?

Thank you very much.
Boet

OK, this is getting a little confusing. See my post in the other thread about the 2005 and 2006 catalogs. It looks like there may have been an L1 with the new head and 3w LED but without the TIR optic. Or, it may just be a lack of attention to detail in the catalog - don't know.

The answer to your question about the 2005 catalog is that both versions are shown...which is not surprising, because photo shoots cost money and you'd tend to use what you've got - and the people doing the catalog might not even know that the product was being redesigned...hard to say.