Novatac VS EDC low voltage operation

I have noticed that the novatac light doesn't do NEARLY as well with a depleted cell as the EDC series.

I had my 120p and it was running on primary level with a well-used duracell. The light level kept dropping as time went on, and then it actually WENT OUT. I unscrewed the tube, and tried to get it to turn back on. No luck there.


I tried the cell in my U60. It worked, but at a low level as expected.

I waited a day and tried it again in the 120p. It would not even blip.

I thought this thing was supposed to be better than this with depleted cells.


Hurry up Henry.....

How full was the batterie? Did you measure it?

turbodog said:

...
Hurry up Henry.....

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Yes hurry indeed!

I think the Novatac sucks on the batteries a bit harder than the HDS. Not having actually stuck a multimeter in it though I could be wrong.

If I run the 120P on an RCR123 until it starts stepping down from max brightness, and then immediately put the same battery into my EDC42, it will maintain max brightness with no stepdowns for a further 10 minutes or so.

One thing I notice as the battery really starts to deplete, is that even when running at 10lm, every couple of minutes there is a small brightness blip (up one level then back down again).

Personally I don't really mind these things. I never expected that the Novatac was going to behave exactly the same as an HDS.

turbodog said:

I have noticed that the novatac light doesn't do NEARLY as well with a depleted cell as the EDC series.

I had my 120p and it was running on primary level with a well-used duracell. The light level kept dropping as time went on, and then it actually WENT OUT. I unscrewed the tube, and tried to get it to turn back on. No luck there.


I tried the cell in my U60. It worked, but at a low level as expected.

I waited a day and tried it again in the 120p. It would not even blip.

I thought this thing was supposed to be better than this with depleted cells.


Hurry up Henry.....

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You know, I'm beginning to get the feeling that you aren't all that happy with the NovaTac. I guess for me though, since I didn't have an HDS to compare it too, I still find it to be a wonderous, although possibly imperfect little light.

You've proved my assumption. That the Novatac made some cut backs to the circuit to increase profits.

I originally noticed it on the runtime/regulation tests. It just wasn't as tight as the HDS.

tebore said:

You've proved my assumption. That the Novatac made some cut backs to the circuit to increase profits.

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These kinds of blanket statements have always bothered me a bit. I think we are all free to draw whatever conclusions we like, but I don't see that it 'proves' anything.

BTW turbodog, I can't wait to see what Henry comes up with. In fact, I started saving as soon as I heard that he had a new light in development. I've got a feeling it will be another very special light.

Until then, I've been enjoying the heck out of my NovaTac, and I'm only sorry that some folks seem to be so disappointed because it's not perfect. I hope Henry's light can live up to those high expectations.

tebore said:

You've proved my assumption. That the Novatac made some cut backs to the circuit to increase profits.
.

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The circuitry in the Novatac is not the same as the one in the HDS so why do you thing that they should behave the same? If there is any cut back from Novatac then it is to make the light more affordable, not to increase profits. Novatac could easily price their lights at $200/each and there would still be people lining up at the door. If you can not pay then don't play.

tebore said:

You've proved my assumption. That the Novatac made some cut backs to the circuit to increase profits.

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You are aware that the novatacs cost about HALF what a hds costs? So much for higher profit margin.

I had unsubscribed from this thread since I saw no replies. I decided to dig it back up and look who all have chimed in!


So, to reply:

I did not measure the cell. I simply know that it actually QUIT running rather abruptly, something the original series would _almost_ never do.

And no, I don't think the novatac sucks on the cell harder. Look at it from the top down. The edc series runs in regulation for a max of 30 minutes. The novatac series for a min of 30 minutes. The light simply has some poor battery management at lower voltage levels. The low levels on the edc series would run forever.

I put a brand new duracell 123 in, turned it to 85 lumens, and within about 3 hours the light had gone out completely. We were camping and had not brought a lantern (or any extra 123 cells).

It is a wonderous light, but it's just like 90-95% finished.

And in conclusion... I let the cell sit for a day. It still would not even blip the novatac. I tried it in the edc light. It ran (an at some level between primary and the lowest) for another 36-48 hours or so.

BBL said:

You are aware that the novatacs cost about HALF what a hds costs? So much for higher profit margin.

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The cost of the HDS isn't actually much more than the Novatac. The HDS was just marketed higher.

I'll stick with my blanket statement because I've monitored a bunch of comparison threads between the HDS and the Novatac and not once did I see the Novatac beat the HDS(UI aside because it's a personal thing).

If you noticed when the last HDS' were cleared out the prices were around what the Novatac costs now. Meaning the A U60 costs about $120-160 and was still profitable.

I'm sure they didn't have to change the circuit but did so to save costs. You're going to tell me a change in UI required a whole new circuit. Note that the max voltage went from 7.4 to 4.2. Again why the drop in max voltage if there wasn't supposed to be a gain in profits.

tebore said:

The cost of the HDS isn't actually much more than the Novatac. The HDS was just marketed higher.

I'll stick with my blanket statement because I've monitored a bunch of comparison threads between the HDS and the Novatac and not once did I see the Novatac beat the HDS(UI aside because it's a personal thing).

If you noticed when the last HDS' were cleared out the prices were around what the Novatac costs now. Meaning the A U60 costs about $120-160 and was still profitable.

I'm sure they didn't have to change the circuit but did so to save costs. You're going to tell me a change in UI required a whole new circuit. Note that the max voltage went from 7.4 to 4.2. Again why the drop in max voltage if there wasn't supposed to be a gain in profits.

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Well, I'm not an electrical engineer, or a circuit designer, so to be honest I don't know what is involved in redesigning a user interface. But, I find it interesting that you are so 'sure' of so many things.

I think it's great that we can get a new light, put it through it's paces, find out what needs to be improved, and pass those recommendations along to the developers.

At least turbodog presents data he has collected by first hand observation. I respect that. I would love to see this light perform better than the original HDS in all respects, and it does bother me a bit that turbodog's observations have shown it to possibly fall short in a number of areas. I sincerely hope he has reported his findings to the NovaTac technical department, along with suggestions for possible improvements.

However, that won't keep me from enjoying the light for what it is, a very nice, versatile, state-of-the-art, widely available, full production pocket light that is extremely fun to use. Definitely a step in the right direction.

And I will say again that it bothers me when folks make statements as fact for which they have no proof other than what they assume to be true.

Derek Dean said:

... I sincerely hope he has reported his findings to the NovaTac technical department, along with suggestions for possible improvements.

...

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From what I have heard, read, and been told it appears that those people have gone back to hds.

But this thread is really about the low voltage shortcomings. It would be nice if someone else would compare their hds and novatac.

I have noticed this too. My NovaTac began to pulsate continuously as the cell was being depleted. My old HDS handles depleted cells beautyfully. Throw any crappy cell at it and it'll manage to get some light out - in rock solid regulation. Only wish I could have the NovaTac UI, output and tint on my HDS :sigh:

tebore said:

The cost of the HDS isn't actually much more than the Novatac. The HDS was just marketed higher.

I'll stick with my blanket statement because I've monitored a bunch of comparison threads between the HDS and the Novatac and not once did I see the Novatac beat the HDS(UI aside because it's a personal thing).

If you noticed when the last HDS' were cleared out the prices were around what the Novatac costs now. Meaning the A U60 costs about $120-160 and was still profitable.

I'm sure they didn't have to change the circuit but did so to save costs. You're going to tell me a change in UI required a whole new circuit. Note that the max voltage went from 7.4 to 4.2. Again why the drop in max voltage if there wasn't supposed to be a gain in profits.

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You made a lot of assumptions there bud. You have no data on the engineering and manufacturing development costs for either the HDS or Novatac lights so your statement about the cost for either one is a random guest at best.

The Novatac best the HDS at: MSRP, Light output, UI options (disorienting strobe), choice of switches, etc. The HDS beat the Novatac with the extended battery tube options.

Clear out cost means nothing if you have ever run a retail business with direct line to the manufacturers. Manufacturers will credit you with your lost on the clearance items so that you can order and stock the new and improve items.

Changing the UI does require a new circuit if the old circuit can not support it. The disorienting strobe at max power and the ability to be gun mounted would require new hardware. A drop in voltage means more reliability and lower power consumption. Why did they mod the battery tube, offered different switch option, crenolated the bezel if Novatac wanted to save money? Have you ever heard of the phrase "Economy of scale"?

What else are you confused about today?

paxxus said:

Only wish I could have the NovaTac UI, output and tint on my HDS :sigh:

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You mean you want the lower output of the HDS? Except for the GT series, the other HDSes had tint problems (check the archive).

turbodog said:

I put a brand new duracell 123 in

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I'm guessing you've done this, but did you set the Novatac for primary cells?

yup

Ok.

I started it again.

Did a battery reset.

Brand new cell installed.

Will soon see what happens.

*** data below ***

start 2:12 p.m.

AZLight said:

You mean you want the lower output of the HDS? Except for the GT series, the other HDSes had tint problems (check the archive).

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No. I want my NovaTac to have steady output on a partially depleted cell. Regarding the tint, yep - my NovaTac has perfect tint.