New modder needs help with Mag 4D Cree Mod

Hi guys, I knew I was in trouble when I saw the Niteize and Mag LED upgrades at Target a few weeks ago. I thought hmmm I should look some of this stuff up on the net, to see if it's any good.

That's when I found CPF, and started reading, and reading and reading... I'm no EE, but I've been known to tweak things here and there, and am decent with a soldering iron. You know where this is leading don't you?

I was originally going to try to mod a 5D Brinkmann Mag knock off that I have had for over 10 years. I may try to do so at some point, but it is gonna have to be a lot more custom than I can do right now, since it has a PR bulb mount, and not a Mag style mount, and doesn't lend itself easily to being modded in the same way. I may ask for help on this one later, but for now I'm just going the Mag route.

So I settled on a 4D Mag, to mod with a Hotlips "style" heatsink, and a Cree XRE Q5, but even with 3rdShift's excellent posts I still have a few questions that I hope you will indulge me in.

1. I know that the Cree has some focus issues, but it seems it is partly due to that it sits lower than an SSC P4 or Luxeon. Does anyone see any issues with creating a copper shim that would boost the height of the emitter on the heatsink, as well as create a possibly better heat transfer (I've done this with CPUs with copper shims in between peltier units and the heatsinks) interface? I saw a figure, but can't seem to find it, on what the height difference would be. Are there any custom reflectors that anyone knows of that works better than the standard reflector with the CREE? Initially I was going to go with the SSC P4, but then I saw that it seems that the XRE Q5 has more output at 1000mah, with less color shift issues. I know the SSC P4 is an "easier" mod, but I figured what the heck..

2. I haven't seen a lot of mods do the 4D Mag, a lot of 3Ds I have seen. Since I do want this to run on normal Alkaline as well as possibly Ni-MH cells, I guess I need a regulator circuit, instead of just a simple resistor, since I would like LED to be driven as long as possible at optimal. I'm completely clueless on this, and would look for any recommendations on what to use to drive the Cree at 1000mah. I have seen some posts on mods at Sandwich Shoppe, but they don't seem to have the ones in question, and others seem to be buck or boost, and they also seem to have limited voltage inputs, and wouldn't really be able to handle 6V in. Basically, I need to know what to buy and solder together...

3. I'm still looking for a D heat sink, looks like the Hotlips isn't available from Sandwich Shoppe, I heard ShiftD might have them, but I also was looking at the one from H22A, I have a PM into him to see if he has any more. I do like HA III finish on them. If anyone has any comment or suggestions on this, would be happy to hear them.

4. I like the glow ring idea to give the mod a finished look. It looks like I just order some glow powder, and mix it in with clear epoxy? Is there a specific ratio I should use? And for the life of me, how in the heck did this guy here get the epoxy set so perfect? The green one looks like a piece of jade?! http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=790510&postcount=6 Do you like tape around the base to keep the epoxy from flowing over the side, and then pulling it off while it's setting? What's the secret? Inquiring minds want to know!

I know the trend seems to be smaller and smaller Mag mods, but for some reason, I guess I just like the heft of a big Maglite, especially if I have to clobber someone, not that I ever had, but it's there if I need it, and it just feels good to me.

When I ran into this forum, at first I thought, modding flashlights as a hobby?? That's kinda wierd.. But then I started reading.. Now I have some Terralux drop-ins on the way for my Mini-mags, a SSC P4 star (One of the other reasons for me to use a Cree) also on the way to replace a Luxeon in a Dorcy Hawkeye, and have bought a Mag specifically to modify. I used to get intrigued like this with building and modding computers. Now this seems to have caught my interest... Did anyone tell you, you guys are just...... EVIL..... but in a good way... :twothumbs

Anyway, I hope you can help, I will be sure and update people on my project, if you are interested in seeing any more Mag mods..

Thanks!

Oh, I'm with ya all the way as far as the bigger Maglites go.

Here ya go.
Here's a 4d that got modded (Picture heavy).
http://flashlight-forums.com/index.php/topic,4045.0.html

Here is the 3c cree xre one I did too (also picture heavy).
http://flashlight-forums.com/index.php/topic,4081.0.html

Combine this info together and presto!
Substitute a 3 ohm 5 watt rated resistor in that 4D with a Cree XRE.

Or, a driver circuit is also a very good way to go.
www.taskled.com has those.

http://www.taskled.com/ccxw.html

Use the 700 milliamp one for the Cree XRE.
CC5W 700m ought to do it.
Here is where to order it.
http://www.taskled.com/order.html
It's small enough to go in a D cell Maglite, yet big enough to work on with ease.

Glow powder?
Mix it with a clear adhesive material before applying before the material "sets"
Or go with an applyable "glow paint".

I have ordered from these people successfully.
http://www.unitednuclear.com/glow.htm



Good luck!

If any more questions come up, fire away.

If you want a cheap driver, this KD driver and this DX driver(now you have three extra drivers, comes in a 4 pack) would also work.

Then follow the instructions above for connecting the wires to the maglite switch. Then solder the + wire to the + center contact on the bottom of the board and the - wire to the - contact ring on the bottom of the board. Connect the + and - wires on the board to the + and - contact of the LED and follow the above instructions to heatsink the LED and assemble the light.

You could cut the reflector to the dept you need so you probably don't need a shim. I think a Seoul might give you more throw but the Cree Q5 would have more overall output.

Yeah, I ended up staying up after turkey and going to Lowe's at 6AM to pick up two 4D lights to mod.

3rdShift, you don't see any issues using the Cree without shimming with the factory reflector? There was a lot of noise about this, I just can't find that figure, it was like .075 or something like that was the difference in height. I guess it kind of matters what kind of beam you want, throw vs flood. It seemed like the CREE mod was more throw than flood, but Gunner12, you seem to indicate otherwise. I know nothing about optics so I guess I'm not sure..

Thanks for the CC5W recommendation, looks like it will drive a 1A load, and handle the voltages and everything. Looks like exactly what I was looking for. I'll have to do some measuring when I get the heatsinks to see if it will fit underneath. You did mention it's small enough to work in the Ds so I'm sure it will...

Oh, and is it just the heatsink "snugness" with heatsink paste and all that keeps it inside the tube? Have you guys seen any issues with it migrating out, especially if you don't have the reflector right down on the heatsink base?

I have the 2 Cree Q5s and 2 DHS HAIII heatsinks on the way. I'm getting excited... God I'm a geek....

Thanks for the replies guys, I was starting to feel alone...

there is pretty no way that heatsink is going to migrate out. I have just done my first mod with a DX driver and used HAIII D heatsink from H22A, it was a tight fit, I pounded it in there (didn't really have the tool or the patience to sand down the interior wall) and it is staying in there tight. and this is on a black maglite which is supposed to have the widest interior diameter.

I don't recommend you doing it my way though, ensuring a snug (not tight) fit is probably a good idea should you ever need to replace the switch or the driver.

Welcome to the wonderful world of flashalohism (god, I'm a geek )

I've done 4 3D Mag mods with H22's heatsink, using 3 D alkalines direct driving SSC P4s and Crees using a cut-down stock Mag reflector. So far, I've been supremely happy with the outcome from the SSC emitter. The beam is somewhat adjustable, and very bright. IMO, Cree beams stink using the Mag reflector. I did get a decent result out of a Mag reflector by spraying a very small amount of clear lacquer over the inside face, making a pseudo-orange peel. It really smoothed the rings out, at a small cost in throw and intensity. The H22 'sink has a raised center post, over which a cut-down Mag reflector can drop, eliminating the concern of the emitter height.

Using my multimeter, I checked the current draw after I hooked everything up. Depending on the LED, I was seeing draws between .7a and .9a with the Mag switch resistance. I currently have 4 different drivers coming in to test...we'll see about that.

This is a long-winded way of getting to the point I wanted to make; the H22 heatsinks rock! With a little dremel sanding in the shaft of the mag, a small line of thermal compound, and a small amount of wiggling, the 'sink fits perfectly. It doesn't "migrate" out, but pliers easily remove it when/if you need to access the interior. (I learned my lesson the hard way - don't use epoxy to fit the 'sink in...it's permanent)

The guys in my office (arson investigators) all like the feel of the 3D mag. Like you said, it's a capable head-bonker if the need arises. (All uses of force must be justified, articulated and reported! We don't Rodney King anyone...)

Yeah, I'll have to see how the CREE does for me. I just put in a Terralux TLE-6EX on the one Mag I have, the other one will get the H22A/CREE, I can always sell the extra CREE Q5, and buy an SSC, if I really don't like the way the beam works.

The TLE-6EX/SSC is defintely White/Blue, compared to the rest of the Leds I have, Luxeon, TLE-5EX/CREE, TLE-20/Nichia, not bad though.

Ok, so I have hopefully just one more question, before I actually receive all the parts and start modding...

Looking at the drivers that have been recommended, I am trying to decide between all the different models, and wondering what the difference in capability is? I'm assuming there is a quality difference, there certainly is a price difference. By my read the capabilities are very similar, and since I'm at most running 4Ds, does one have an advantage over the other?

I'm looking at the:

TaskLED CC5W
http://www.taskled.com/ccxw.html

KD AMC7135 1050mah
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=1805

DX AMC7135 1050mah
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1885


I was also considering these multimode boards..

KD 5-Modes 7135 Regulated 17mm Circuit
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=2958

DX 5-Mode 1000mA 7135 Circuit Board
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6190

It seems that according to posts that the KD and DX boards are essentially identical or extremely similar. I'm assuming that means that I could run the DX boards at 6V (They quote 4.5v as the max), as the spec on the AMC7135 chip seems to indicate 6V max.

The 5-Mode boards seem to have a lower reported max output 950mah, instead of 1050mah, is this because of the circuitry for the modes, or is this a wrong description, and they are the same (they look almost the same as the non-mode drivers)?

The 7135 boards running at 6V will get very hot and I would not suggest them for a 4D mod, you'll need a buck driver like this one.

Humm.. That's disappointing.. Was hoping to be a little bit more inexpensive on the controller side of things.. Oh well..

So in addition to the one you linked, by the specs these two should do the trick as well, right?

TaskLED CC5W
http://www.taskled.com/ccxw.html

BuckPuck
http://www.ledsupply.com/buckpuck.php

I'm assuming that the LED "requests" a certain voltage based on the current, from the driver, since I don't see a way to "set" the voltage out on these?

Thanks for all the help guys!

Gunner12 said:

The 7135 boards running at 6V will get very hot ...

Click to expand...

They might if they were run on 6V. Within minutes you'd be down to more like 5.2V under load, whether running on alkaline or NiMH. Even at that voltage each AMC7135 would only be dissipating half a watt, which is just half what would be needed to increase the junction temperature to 120°C in an ambient 70°C. Yes, that's hot, but well within operation spec for the AMC7135. Heat in this case would only be a concern because of efficiency, not because you're pushing that regulator too hard - it can take 150°C before thermal protection cuts in.

Good point.