New Pistol Grip Light...Now we have options!!!

angelofwar · May 14, 2008

Saw an add for this in the latest edition of my fav tactical magazine...Here's the down and dirty
Cost: $349
Power Requirements: 4 CR123's
Output: 300 Lumens (not sure how they're measured)
Functions: "On" and "Strobe"
Modularity?: Has ""Hot-Shoes", to add a L.A.M. or Camera, as needed

https://www.sigsauer.com/SigStore/ShowProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=26&productid=263

Pro's: Nearly half the price of the M-900 and a little more modular
Con's: No "SF Lifetime Warranty" (never dealt w/ SS as far as warranties go, but from what I've seen and heard, SF's is the best), and no Red LED Nav lights that are the signature (IHMO) trademark of the M-900.

SS has a pretty good "quality" record...AKA, this isn't "cheap junk". Trust me, if I had money coming out of my ears, I'd get the M-900...in fact I use the SF918A on my 870-Marine Magnum...just thought I'd let my fellow CPF'ers (especially LEO and the rest of "Ground Pounders"), of another "pistol grip" light that's out there, so we finally have a choice of pistol grip lights...and for the rest of ya, maybe just some eye candy to drool over... :popcorn:

Meltdown · May 15, 2008

getting one soon to eval. yes that will mean beamshots!

PhantomPhoton · May 15, 2008

I wonder what "300 lumen LED" they have in there. The only 300 lumen LED I know of is a P7 or an osram. (or an overdriven Cree/ SSC/ TFFC K2) :thinking:

Nice find though, thanks.

mebiuspower · May 15, 2008

Those in the know, will use a SF on Larue offset flashlight mount and Larue FUG to customize it to their need.

MattK · May 15, 2008

BUY LOTS!!!

eyeeatingfish · May 15, 2008

I have to say I am not very thrilled. Flashlights with vertical bodies are nothing new. I think they are awfully expensive just to add a flashlight into a plastic grip with rails.
Also if you click on zoon, you will see that it has 3 LEDs so 300 is not going to be hard to do.

I wonder how that would work on a pistol though...

jzmtl · May 15, 2008

PhantomPhoton said:
I wonder what "300 lumen LED" they have in there. The only 300 lumen LED I know of is a P7 or an osram. (or an overdriven Cree/ SSC/ TFFC K2) :thinking:

Nice find though, thanks.

Click enlarge, it use three led (cree from what I see). Consider it use 4 123a it's entirely possible to have 300 lumen out front.

https://www.sigsauer.com/images/sigstore/product/detail-STOPLITE.jpg

Dead_Nuts · May 15, 2008

I started a thread about this light a couple of weeks ago. There wasn't much interest. The fact that it's different and innovative is what caught my eye.

Xak · May 16, 2008

eyeeatingfish said:
I have to say I am not very thrilled. Flashlights with vertical bodies are nothing new. I think they are awfully expensive just to add a flashlight into a plastic grip with rails.
Also if you click on zoon, you will see that it has 3 LEDs so 300 is not going to be hard to do.

I wonder how that would work on a pistol though...

Depending on where you live and what type of firearms licensing you have it may be a huge legal issue to have a grip on the rail of your pistol, light or no light. Just something to keep in mind.

Dead_Nuts · May 16, 2008

Regardless of where you live, a forward grip on pistol constitutes an AOW by BATFE interpretation - requiring a whole bunch of paperwork, approval and a $200 tax stamp.

Brownstone · May 16, 2008

Dead_Nuts said:
Regardless of where you live, a forward grip on pistol constitutes an AOW by BATFE interpretation - requiring a whole bunch of paperwork, approval and a $200 tax stamp.

I didn't know BATF had jurisdiction outside the United States?

Dead_Nuts · May 16, 2008

OK, ya got me there. I assumed the comment about "where you live" referred to what state. Of course this shows my total disrespect for people of other nations. My sincere apologies!

I simply didn't want US citizens to think they could put one of these lights on their handguns. That would be a bad move.

ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are "making" a firearm requiring registration with ATF's NFA Branch. Making an unregistered "AOW" is punishable by a fine and 10 years' imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered "AOW" is also punishable by fine and 10 years' imprisonment.

To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application on ATF Form 1, "Application to Make and Register a Firearm." The applicant must submit the completed form, along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant's fingerprints; a photograph; and $200.00. The application will be reviewed by the NFA Branch. If the applicant is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and possession of an "AOW" is not prohibited in the applicant's State of residence, the form will be approved. Only then may the person add a vertical fore grip to the designated handgun.

A person may also send the handgun to a person licensed to manufacture NFA weapons. The manufacturer will install the fore grip on the firearm and register the firearm on an ATF Form 2. The manufacturer can then transfer the firearm back to the individual on an ATF Form 4, which results in a $5.00 transfer tax. If the manufacturer is out of State, the NFA Branch will need a clarification letter submitted with the ATF Form 4 so that the NFA Branch Examiner will know the circumstances of the transfer. Questions can be directed to the NFA Branch or the Firearms Technology Branch.

Those of you in other countries with more freedoms to possess firearms of your choice and configuration are much luckier than I am.

Northern Lights · May 16, 2008

PhantomPhoton said:
I wonder what "300 lumen LED" they have in there. The only 300 lumen LED I know of is a P7 or an osram. (or an overdriven Cree/ SSC/ TFFC K2) :thinking:

Nice find though, thanks.

They probably mean total lumens from the 3 LEDs, but despite that my 4X Cree Romisen will go onto a picanny mount and then that beats this contraption and is side by side to a green laser. Better performance less money.

This is unique because of the verticle grip.

Thanks all for bringing it into discussion, interesting.

eyeeatingfish · May 17, 2008

Dead_Nuts said:
OK, ya got me there. I assumed the comment about "where you live" referred to what state. Of course this shows my total disrespect for people of other nations. My sincere apologies!

I simply didn't want US citizens to think they could put one of these lights on their handguns. That would be a bad move.

Those of you in other countries with more freedoms to possess firearms of your choice and configuration are much luckier than I am.

Does anyone even know if it would be practical to put a vertical forward grip on say... a glock?

In my state assault pistols are illegal and something is an assault pistol if it has 2 or more of certain parts..
"Assault pistol" means a semiautomatic pistol which accepts a detachable magazine and which has two or more of the following characteristics:
(1) An ammunition magazine which attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward hand grip, or silencer;
(3) A shroud which is attached to or partially or completely encircles the barrel and which permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the second hand without being burned;
(4) A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;
(5) A centerfire pistol with an overall length of twelve inches or more; or
(6) It is a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm;

Patriot · May 17, 2008

I kinda like it because it's a tri-LED, modular to some extent and unique. I'd like to see one in person.

Dead_Nuts · May 17, 2008

eyeeatingfish said:
Does anyone even know if it would be practical to put a vertical forward grip on say... a glock?

In my state assault pistols are illegal and something is an assault pistol if it has 2 or more of certain parts..
"Assault pistol" means a semiautomatic pistol which accepts a detachable magazine and which has two or more of the following characteristics:
(1) An ammunition magazine which attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward hand grip, or silencer;
(3) A shroud which is attached to or partially or completely encircles the barrel and which permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the second hand without being burned;
(4) A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;
(5) A centerfire pistol with an overall length of twelve inches or more; or
(6) It is a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm;

If you live in the USA (I got in trouble for assuming earlier), Federal laws apply to you. Even though your state laws (which seem to do nothing towards the end of making guns less concealable or "dangerous" in any way) are laws you must obey in addition to the Federal laws -- so the state doesn't need to include those Federal prohibitions in their law. Adding a forward grip to a Glock would be considered by the BATFE as illegally manufacturing a AOW, unless you first jump through all the hoops, pay your tax and get your local sheriff, etc. to sign off on it.

You could go to prison and lose your ability to ever buy another gun.

Still, this is the best damn semi-free country in the world.

eyeeatingfish · May 17, 2008

Dead_Nuts said:
If you live in the USA (I got in trouble for assuming earlier), Federal laws apply to you. Even though your state laws (which seem to do nothing towards the end of making guns less concealable or "dangerous" in any way) are laws you must obey in addition to the Federal laws -- so the state doesn't need to include those Federal prohibitions in their law. Adding a forward grip to a Glock would be considered by the BATFE as illegally manufacturing a AOW, unless you first jump through all the hoops, pay your tax and get your local sheriff, etc. to sign off on it.

You could go to prison and lose your ability to ever buy another gun.

Still, this is the best damn semi-free country in the world.

Hawaii is actually a pretty restrictive state as far as gun laws. A lot of the things I just listed limits pistols people can buy or own.
Can you elaborate on your acronyms please?
It seems like an odd law though, given that this isn't some modification to the gun such as say... making a gun fully automatic of sawing off the barrel of a shotgun, etc. Some guy throws on a $20 plastic gadget and all of a sudden there are strict federal laws? Not to mention that a lot of pistols are intended to be fired two handed anyway. Im not saying youre wrong, im just saying its odd. I mean there are countless attachments specifically made for attaching to rails. Ive never seen a package that says dont put this on your pistol. Not to mention I dont think they teach federal gun laws to your average police officers.

Do you think it would even add any benefit to put a vertical grip on the front of a glock?

FredM · May 17, 2008

Dead_Nuts said:
Regardless of where you live, a forward grip on pistol constitutes an AOW by BATFE interpretation - requiring a whole bunch of paperwork, approval and a $200 tax stamp.

AOW is 5 dollars tax.

Dead_Nuts · May 18, 2008

It is only $5 if you transfer an already manufactured AOW - check your facts. We are discussing "manufacturing" an AOW by taking an existing weapon (handgun in this case) and adding a feature that would turn it in to a AOW. To do that costs $200 and some extra steps from simply transferring (buying) an existing AOW.

It's all there in the cut and paste from the ATF web site I posted earlier in this thread. Their words and their opinions - not mine.

Eyeeatingfish: BATFE = Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (Also; BATF, ATF)

AOW = Any Other Weapon; a class of restricted weapons as categorized by the ATF

Dead_Nuts · May 19, 2008

eyeeatingfish said:
It seems like an odd law though, given that this isn't some modification to the gun such as say... making a gun fully automatic of sawing off the barrel of a shotgun, etc. Some guy throws on a $20 plastic gadget and all of a sudden there are strict federal laws? Not to mention that a lot of pistols are intended to be fired two handed anyway. Im not saying youre wrong, im just saying its odd. I mean there are countless attachments specifically made for attaching to rails. Ive never seen a package that says dont put this on your pistol. Not to mention I dont think they teach federal gun laws to your average police officers.

Do you think it would even add any benefit to put a vertical grip on the front of a glock?

I am with you as far as this being a silly law, but it is still the law (see my cut and paste from BATF website above). On the one hand, you have laws restricting SBR's and SBS's (short-barreled rifles/shotguns) presumable because shortening the weapon makes it more concealable. On the other hand, you have adding a forward grip to a handgun (making much less concealable) being a violation as well. And you are correct in that parts and accessory makers leave the knowledge of the laws up to you. For instance it is legal to own a pre-'81 Drop-In Auto Sear (DIAS) capable of turning a properly outfitted AR-15 into a machine gun. They are available by mail, etc. But, it is unlawful to own both this DIAS and the AR15 together. You can own either one, but not both -- owning both constitutes intent to manufacture an illegal machine gun (as determined by the BATF).

I don't want to get too far into the tortured laws that are US firearms code, as that was not the intent of this post. But, since improper use of the subject of this post could, conceivable, result in 10 years imprisonment, I felt it worth mentioning.

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