Will higher voltage in regulated lights = brighter?

I'm full of noob questions but here is something that kinda perplexed me. Will running higher voltages in a regulated LED light make it brighter? I am asking because I have a Malkoff M60L that has the following info attached to it:

The input voltage is 3.8 - 9 volts. Below 3.8 volts it will drop out of regulation and run direct drive. The output is 140+/- lumens. The current draw is approximately 350ma at 6 volts.

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If the output is around 140 lumens @ 6v, then would it be higher if I am running it at 9v?

I am running it now on 3 primaries to get to 9v but when I compared it to a Fenix T10 on high my M60L seemed almost as bright, even though the Fenix is rated at 225 lumens on high. Maybe that just isn't enough of a difference to notice? I almost feel like I got jipped on the lumens but then I only had it out for a couple minutes before I had to wrap it and shove it under the tree. I switched between high and low a few times too just to be sure I was really seeing it on high.

I may just be confused on the whole regulation issue because I thought regulated would limit or boost it to a certain voltage regardless of what you feed it. If it does work like that and say that the M60L is limiting it to 6v, then this module is friggin brighter than I would have thought.

Agent_Jaws said:

I'm full of noob questions but here is something that kinda perplexed me. Will running higher voltages in a regulated LED light make it brighter? I am asking because I have a Malkoff M60L that has the following info attached to it:



If the output is around 140 lumens @ 6v, then would it be higher if I am running it at 9v?

I am running it now on 3 primaries to get to 9v but when I compared it to a Fenix T10 on high my M60L seemed almost as bright, even though the Fenix is rated at 225 lumens on high. Maybe that just isn't enough of a difference to notice? I almost feel like I got jipped on the lumens but then I only had it out for a couple minutes before I had to wrap it and shove it under the tree. I switched between high and low a few times too just to be sure I was really seeing it on high.

I may just be confused on the whole regulation issue because I thought regulated would limit or boost it to a certain voltage regardless of what you feed it. If it does work like that and say that the M60L is limiting it to 6v, then this module is friggin brighter than I would have thought.

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A few things here,

1. The Malkoff M60 quoted figures of 140 lumens is the actual amount of light exiting the torch. Some manufactures quote "emitter lumens" without factoring in the loses associated with reflector and electronics losses.

2. The Malkoff M60 uses a buck circuit that can handle up to a 9v input. 6v, 7.4v or 9v should result in the same regulated output from the emitter but with varying run times.

3. The Malkoff M60's are a great choice!!

James...

The M60L uses a buck circuit that can handle up to 9v. Anything more will fry the circuit, anything less then the Vf of the LED(forward voltage of the LED, usually around 3.7v for white LEDs) and the circuit would be in direct drive(not regulated with batteries directly powering the LED).

IIRC the T series' lumen rating is pretty accurate.

Our eyes don't sense light linearly. It takes 4x the output for one light for our eyes to say that it is 2x brighter then another light. The TK10 is around 40-60% brighter then the M60L but it might only seem a bit brighter by eye.

considering that most all of the better lights drive the led at max safe current (of about 800-900 mAh), there can be no difference in brightness when using a higher voltage.
Only the runtime goes up, as less current draw on the batts is needed
(but also the size of the light goes up, there is no magic in here)

140 lumen otf compared to 225 lum - even if they are emitter lumen - make a CONSIDERABLE difference, easily spotted in direct comparison.

there are a few obvious possibilities when both lights feel the same:
1st: the data is not correct
2nd: the beams are different (wider beam with same lumes --> looks less bright)
3rd: tint (can make much difference to the eye)

except for measuring output, there is only one good way of classifying the light:
consider battery setup, measure current draw --> calculate possible current to led and such the output
(even with expensive brightness measuring equipment, I think not considering the draw is totally useless in regard to type anything to a specific light. What if the difference of the "better" light is bought with considerably less runtime because of excessive draw?)

PS: I just did a search for Malkoff M60 and the HP states 235+ lumen.
http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_8&products_id=7
They should look the same in output, as they are the same

There is not a fixed answer on this, it depends on the light.

Mostly lights with buck driver (i.e. anything that has more than 4 volt in batteries) have a stable output, for any battery voltage above a specified minimum.

For lights with boost circuit (mostly anything that works below 3.7 volt), many will increase the light output when the battery voltage is increased, some in a controlled way, other in a uncontrolled way.

Remember most LEDs are designed to work at 3.2 to 3.6 volts. Any extended use of a higher voltage to the LED above that will cause the LED to go .

The current crop of lights are driving the LED to the max and the brighter light might not be the better light. They might just burn out on you.
I lost 2 lights this year and 2 of Bessiebenny's dimmed significantly after not much use.
When the '900 lumen' lights came out the complaint was they were nowhere near that bright. So the manufacturers made the lights brighter. Now the complaint was many of the lights die within a few weeks of arrival.

The Cree XRE was originally designed for 350 mA.
The flashlight modders followed by the manufacturers ran the LED at 700 mA. When the LEDs did not burn out out under occasional use (flashlights are not run 24/7), Cree re-rated the XRE for 700 mA.
The flashlight modders followed by the manufacturers ran the LED at 1000 mA then 1400 mA.
The LED is now running at 4X what it is originally designed for. If you run them on a hot day for an extended time or otherwise stress the system, there is a good chance you could end up with a paperweight.

A 9V driver goes 9V>3.6V.

A 6V driver goes 6V>3.6V. If you put 9V to it one of 2 things will happen:
1) The driver goes 9V>5.4V and the LED goes .
2) The driver will manage to go 9V>3.6V but the driver board overheats and goes .

If you need brighter lights it might be a better idea to go with multi-LED lights or multi-emitter LEDs (SSC-P7 or Cree MCE) rather than buy a light in which the LED is driven beyond its limits.
Maybe it is time to look at a M@g P7. Over 500 lumens. 600 lumens if you replace M@g's crappy plastic lens with a UCL lens.

LEDninja said:

A 9V driver goes 9V>3.6V.

A 6V driver goes 6V>3.6V. If you put 9V to it one of 2 things will happen:
1) The driver goes 9V>5.4V and the LED goes .
2) The driver will manage to go 9V>3.6V but the driver board overheats and goes .

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That is not correct, most buck drivers do not really care about the input voltage, as long as it as above minimum working voltage and below voltage, inside this range the output current/voltage will be (nearly) constant. Some manufactures specifies this range, other does not.

"If the output is around 140 lumens @ 6v, then would it be higher if I am running it at 9v?"

Short answer is no it will not. I have tested it in an integration sphere. Doesn't work that way. Don't try to take it over 9V either.

I reread the OP and the link provided by yellow.

Please do not retype. Copy and paste.
"The input voltage is 3.8 - 9 volts. Below 3.8 volts it will drop out of regulation and run direct drive. The output is 235+ lumens. The current draw is only 750ma at 6 volts."

750ma at 6 volts = 4.2W = 1.25A at 3.6V (minus any circuit losses)
It looks like the module is optimized for 6V so 9V may not provide much more light. It is rated for 9V so there should be no problem running at that voltage.

Brightness depends on the current to the LED not the battery voltage. So a flashlight with a 1.4A at 3.6V to the LED will be brighter than one with 1.25A at 3.6V.
Fenix are probably driving their light harder because the heatsink is connected directly to the body at the factory.
The Malkoff is only touching the body at the front of the module. So heat concerns may force Malkoff to back off the power to the LED.

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Power=voltage * current.
As you raise voltage the power also rises. As the power out is constant the extra power becomes extra heat on the circuit components. This extra heat is what makes the circuit board go .
Please note the example you quoted from I said "6V driver"

HKJ said:

That is not correct, most buck drivers do not really care about the input voltage, as long as it as above minimum working voltage and below voltage, inside this range the output current/voltage will be (nearly) constant. Some manufactures specifies this range, other does not.

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I am trying to dissuade people especially newbies from trying to get more brightness by simply upping the voltage willy nilly. Note OP is using 3*CR123As with a module that will run perfectly well on 2.
Buys a 1AA light. 1.2V. Hey its brighter than my big dollar store 2D torch.
Adds battery tube. 2AA 2.4V. Its even brighter.
Buys a 14500 3.7V battery. WOW!
Adds a 2nd 14500 battery. 7.4V.

Ya I know not to exceed 9v and have no plans to. I'm just trying to figure out why my M60L rated at 140 lumens seems to be almost as bright, if not just as bright, as the Fenix TK10 rated at 225 lumens. Maybe the Malkoff is rated more accurately than the Fenix as far as what is leaving the light, I dunno. What I do know is that if I were to buy a new light, I would take one with a Malkoff module over the Fenix.

Agent_Jaws said:

Ya I know not to exceed 9v and have no plans to. I'm just trying to figure out why my M60L rated at 140 lumens seems to be almost as bright, if not just as bright, as the Fenix TK10 rated at 225 lumens. Maybe the Malkoff is rated more accurately than the Fenix as far as what is leaving the light, I dunno. What I do know is that if I were to buy a new light, I would take one with a Malkoff module over the Fenix.

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I have had the Fenix T1 at the same time as the M60L and the M60L was not almost as bright as the Fenix T1. You are making the classic mistake of looking at the hot spot of 2 different beam pattern lights. The Fenix has a lot of its energy in the spill, not all in the hot spot. The 2 aren't even close to each other. The Fenix TK10 is the same output and pattern as the T1. I have tested them side by side as well. there are many lights that are like this. I can show you 240 lumen lights that have a brighter hot spot than 700 lumen lights, its how the vendors choose to focus the energy into a tighter beam pattern or set up a lot of secondary spill.

If you like your Malkoff M60L, be happy, its no mystery.
Here is a comparison for you. the M60L is the first photo in the group, the Fenix T1 is several photos down. Don't be fooled by a white wall shot.


https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/205842