Bored With Surefire?

Anyone else bored with Surefire?

To be clear, I love Surefire. I own an E1 (incan), 9AN, LED Front End for my shotgun, E1B and an M2...err...with a Malkoff in it. But lately I find myself really bored with their current product offerings (E1B aside which I think is a phenominal light).

I know their quality is unsurpassed. It's THEIR light I keep on my nightstand for when the Zombies attack. No question. But for the rest of my needs, I find myself looking at other makers. Surefire's combination of features, lumens and price just arent doing it for me. And I'm kinda bummed because I really love the company and would prefer to give them my dinero.

I suspect that they've lost a fair amount of market share in the last few years. I suspect that this will probably continue if they don't make some changes. Anyone else feel the same?

And can anyone tell me what makes the T1A worth $239? I know quality has its price. But what makes it worth almost $100 more than the E1B?

Peace

Personally I am not of the "brighter is better" mentality. I can find just as many uses for 10L as I can for 200 or 300L, so I dont hold it against them that they are not always the brightest lights around. (Although the E2DL is a legit 200L OTF and the P91 will get you above 400L OTF.. so long as you are willing to use it with a host that accepts 2x18650 IMR). IMHO Their build quiality is VERY good and combined with their CS and lifetime of parts replacement I personally think Surefires are worth every penny.

Just about ALL flashlight manufacturers claim and advertise 100% bogus Lumen output specs. Read garys "Actual Lumen" sticky and compare Surefires advertised Lumen output with others.. and you can easily see whos blowing smoke and who is honest. IMHO... to knock SF for their Lumen output is not really fair. They are merely doing what they advertise, and in many cases they exceed their advertised lumen output.

For me the deal breaker is that they can not accept rechargable chemistries. Sure you can run a 2xCR123 light with a 17670, but (AFIAK) it generally will not run optimally. Sure you can risk running a 6V light with 2xRCR123 but there is an element of risk in doing that. The lack of 18650 compatibility of course is another deal breaker in my book.

I don't think anyone on CPF knows enough about the business and millitary industry in general to say whether or not their sales are hurting. I think As long as US military agencies comply to the Berry Ammendment, there will always be a demand for USA made lights. Surefire has a proven track record and history of reliable service with the US military. I can't imagine US military pulling out of Surefire and contracting another USA manufacturer... but in todays economy who knows anything is possible.

FWIW I love my 6P and M2, but neither are really stock. It took some tuning and mild mods to get them to my liking.

Bored with Surefire NO WAY... Will I buy another NO WAY (so long as it does not accept rechargeable)

im new, i dont own a surefire but would love too, just non of them really like you say have the right features/price.
i like the z2 or z2l but a fenix tk11 r2 for me is cheaper and brighter with a good general use low, to match the brightness i would need a wolfeyes or M60 dropin which just increases the price, then all you payed for at the start is a ally body and switch ?????
the l1/2 lx1/2 are nice lights, the lows a bit low for me and im not sold on TIR, the review on here shows the old TK10 is brighter with good useable spill.
id probally lean to jetbeam for the quality and functions.
surefire like Mag i think have some work to do.

I do not know how long this thread will remain open, but I will say first...welcome to cpf... and secondly, I am just starting to become a little more excited about them again. I have owned over 10 of their lights...from an e2e to the M4 in incans...and a 6pl and e2dl in leds. Their LX2 looks like a very good light...and the Saint looks cool too.

I have not bought any SF lights in over a year, and I think their compitition has grown in both the areas of quality and innovation...but I think Surefire will make some good contenders for my $$$ in 2009...or at least I am hoping so. At least they are turning me back from a critic into a cautious fan again.

Bored with Surefire? Never!

a99raptors said:

Bored with Surefire? Never!

Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

Sometimes i feel the same way about my lights. I own a few decent lights (A2, g2 +m60 , and L2d). But every time i use them or put them next to a ordinary light it reminds me how well they work and why i spend so much money on them. Maybe is time to take them out to reignite your interest in them.

SF are the only lights I have bought in years. They are the only ones I will buy this year. But I dont own every one I want, because I am not convinced that some like the TITAN are a good value for me.

A newbie here in the lights arena but for now I'm not interested to get one at all. At least 2-2.5 x more expensive than other lights in the same range.
And i've tested them before.

And the other brand lights are proving to be extremely durable too, just check out the tests carried out on them.

I'm actually waiting for the Japanese to start coming up with their own lights...now that would be very interesting.

* in incan age, nothing was better,
* around here in Europe, they cost a whole lot more than in the US, making getting them much more of a problem
* this price (and availability) fights testing the newer led-offers (so I have no real 1st hand clue on them unfortunately)
* CR123 is costy, I like 18650 much more

* since I modded my shelf queenish original 6P (early 90s) with a programmable driver, Cree Xr-E, 18650, a very good reflector and the clicky switch, that light became my main in April 2007 and stays it till now. No newer light can beat all the merits.

... that the clicky switch alone costs more than a comparable light of good, reliable quality ...
(just shows that I am a flashlight addict)

Mechanically nothing beats SFs lights, the electronics are behind, thats my point of view.

I think that SureFire was THE brand that made flashlights appealing to hobbyists and collectors, ever more so than M@g. They've brought many innovations forward to the industry such as their two-stage tailcaps, TIR optics, regulated incandescent technology and shock-protected designs. I can say that I still find SFs pretty appealing compared to most other manufacturers.

To the OP, if you find SF boring maybe you could try one of their other designs like the new LX2 with two-stage switching and 200 OTF lumens on high. The A2's a classic that everyone who's keen on lights should try. Or maybe you could check out the work of other manufacturers such as Ra Lights (HDS) or one of the forum heroes, McGizmo, which I'd rate equal or even above SF in terms of quality.

The reason I can see for the high price of the T1A is its unique continuously variable brightness control which is operated by rotating the light's bezel. It uses the same system as the limited edition Titan and requires more complex electronics than those in the E1B. At the moment, the T1As received by forum members appear to have a very blue tint. I'd personally hold off buying one until SF puts a better bin of LEDs in the lights.

I think Surefire standardized the 2xCR123 tactical light and then made a whole series of lights around that philosophy.

The problem in the future for surefire IMHO is not companys like fenix, but American companies like Streamlight, Pelican, and Insight.

For example the cost of a 6P LED is about $90 with 80 out the front lumens whereas the Streamlight Strion LED the 160 out the front lumens (I believe streamlight also uses an IS to test their lights) and is $110... that $20 difference is a quick rechargable flashlight--no more primaries to worry about and no more wondering if AW is going to burn out your LED by going to an odd size rechargable Li-Ion.

Even their entry level product the G2 LED is $70 while the streamlight equivalent, the Polytac LED is $40.

Their direct competition in domestic capacity for LE orders is likely to go down to these companies. Military orders are likely to stabilize because of their more long-term acquisition process, but any review process will see that Surefire has competition among American manufacturers.

This says nothing about their civilian market share which is most likely dwindling, sometimes due to places like Walmart where I can get something almost as powerful as the Surefire G2 LED for $25 that runs on AA batteries and further, by places like this website which literally shows how much Surefire is behind the curve in flashlight technology.

Currently, Surefire relies on marketing, but I think that can only go so far in todays internet world where we can research something in 10 seconds rather than rely on a company's marketing.

Of course, I think Surefire is successful currently because they diversify their offerings, they make weapon accessories, flashhiders, sound suppressors, and teach low light gun fighting classes.

I think that a small amount of research investment and review of their pricing structure will enable them to have long term success.

My first two lights were Surefires, a U2 and an L4 and I was highly impressed about their output and their built quality. What came out of China at this moment, was more or less cra besides the Surefires.

Now, times have changed, China also builts high quality lights. Meanwhile I have two Ra Clickies, which are even tougher than the Surefires and lots of other lights that cover the whole range.

If Surefire had brought the Invictus in 2008, I would probably have gotten one, even if it would have cost a fortune. Up to 400 real Lumen in a quality built light with an ingenius UI, I waited for such a light! But, as we know, it didn't come out and by the time it will, other lights with XP-G will be on the market that will offer about the ame for less money. I even can mention the MC-E lights, even if my M30 can't keep up with the built quality, but I have some mega output if I need it.

So, I don't think I'll buy any more Surefires, another problem in Europe is, that I must order it from the local dealer, wait a few weeks and leave work earlier to be able to get it from him. As for other brands, I make a few clicks or drop someone a mail and the light will wait for me at the postal office around the corner a few days later.

I still love my U2 though and no other light puts out that wall of light the L4 does (no other sucks 2 cells dry in les than an hour either...)! :thumbsup:

i used to plan collecting most if not all surefire LED lights for the first step, which may be followed by their incandescent line.
i believe in their quality and durability, but i only look for bargains on the 2nd hand market. When i found and purchased one, thats when i feel really satisfied with getting surefire quality lights with the same price with new chinese lights

oh, but that plan was scrapped. Im on mcgizmo collection path now. :help:

I think the word bored is probably inappropriate but dull perhaps? The problem is Surefire are not about catering to fashions but more about reliabilty and longevity. I am not getting into any name calling or mentioniong specific makes but many of Surefire's competitors products do not appeal to me because they don't produce anything which is in production for more than a year or two. If Surefire brings something to market I know that it is tried and tested and will be in production for a good few years before they finish producing that model. This continuity means I can rely on them (Surefire) keeping my light going for as long as is praticable. In turn this means my investment in one of their products ,although expensive, is worthwhile.

Although is is a rather over used term a flashlight for me is a tool. I want a tool I'm happy with and one which I can depend on. Tools are not meant to be fashionable but dependable and practical and if they are a little dull so what?

Well, normally people associated surefire with quality. However, I came across a lot of E1B and not all of them have the perfect anodising. The anodising on my E1B is not perfect, there are some blemishes on the anodising which some E1B have and some E1B dont, the reflective coating on the lens comes off easily for both E1B that I have before I sold it.

I do admit their design and looks are the best in the market, sometimes it is worth giving a shot to other manufacturer and not sticking to only one brand.

Maybe have like a bit of every brand.

The price spread compared to other lights is to much for me. I would pay more for the Surefire name...if it was more reasonable. But to me their way to high priced...might feel different if I had a fatter wallet.

Also as others have pointed out...they really try and force you to stay with the 123 batt. They sell them after all...probably a large part of their profit now day`s. I am one of those who are moving on into the future with Li-ion. At this point I see the 123`s as old, silly batts...about the worst choice out there for power.

I know rubbing sticks together will still start a fire...but I use a lighter. And I also uses Li-ion.

I've only just started spending all my money on them... but i don't think i will ever get bored of it!

:thumbsup::twothumbs

The unnecessarily provocative title does not augur well for the future of this thread.

I don't think we're actually bored with Surefire. I have never owned one because of the price and the lack of features compared to everything else out there these days.

Perhaps just frustrated that they're too expensive? lacking in features compared to other cheaper lights? Not as bright for the price?

Build quality of Surefires have always been great, but alot of other brands are catching up.