L4 vs high beam on A2

For those who have them and those soon to get them, do you prefer the high beam on the A2 or the L4 beam for close, medium and long range illumination? And please state why.

I'm teedering between the A2 and L4 and I guess I need a push one way or the other.

Brock, you know what I'll be doing with these lights, assuming I have separate low level lights (5mm and 1W LED) which would you prefer for digging in road cases and checking the wiring in the truss? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Either way I'll have to sell my trusty old E2. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

i'm assuming runtime isn't an issue? A2 on high will last half as long as L4 running flat out, and the latter will still go into moon mode and put put more light than the A2 leds, ya?

Don't sell your E2 just yet, maybe you'll like the KL4 head with E2 round body + clickie?

The A2 is great for show use as during the show you don't want to be blasting 50 to 65 L and distracting people.

I have had both for a while now and in terms of beam comparisons, I think the A2 covers a larger range of targets than the L4 and is likely preferable to the L4 at both up close and low level (low beam) and on distant targets since the incan is obviously tighter and has more throw. The A2 will provide acceptable if not optimal illumination in target ranges and applications falling between it extremes. The L4 however with its wider beam angle, good color and intensity is better suited for use in the mid ranges, IMHO. I think the two lights are actually quite complimentary to each other.

So I guess I'm trying to say that the A2 can cover a larger range of illumination tasks being optimal at two ends where as the KL4 is more limited in range but likely preferred within its limitations over the A2 being used within these parameters.

Since you say you have the low level already covered, I think you need to decide which target distance you want optimized for this tool selection. Your examples of digging in road cases and checking wires sound like like medium to close range activities so I think you would be better served with the L4.

Hope this helps....

- Don

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yclo said:
Don't sell your E2 just yet, maybe you'll like the KL4 head with E2 round body + clickie?

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If you are going to go with the L4, you might as well just get a KL4. That way, you will essentially have an L4, but you can still use your incandescent head.

Who knows when the KL4 will be available. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif I heard that somebody called Surefire and they said it is currently unavailable, but I would guess it is on its way fairly soon.

Very good analysis and comparison of the two lights' (A2 and L4) functions and "targeted useage", Don!
If the light is to be used in special enviroments and conditions it is vital to choose the right light and carefully analyse each light's strenght and "weak points".

Klaus.

I've been carrying both for a while.

The A2 does see some main beam use still which I find interesting...

Al

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Size15s said:
The A2 does see some main beam use still which I find interesting...


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Al, you are talking in code again! What do you find interesting about the A2 main beam? I don't understand. Signed, Confused American.

If the supply of KL4 heads is low, we might not see them offered for sale seperately for quite a while. Just keep that in mind.

Good point Tyler.

Any beamshots between the A2 main beam and the L4? It would be nice to see the difference in beam intensity and size.

Even with the KL4 (L4) in my pocket, I still use the A2 from my other pocket) for some applications. I guess I'm a fan of the two-stage switched outputs.

Al

A KL4-SG would be nice to pop on my McLux 2x123 tail.

OK, A dang boring beam shot:



I will let you guess which is the A2 (high) and which is the L4. The camera was steped down to capture the center beams and the manual seting was the same for both. In a crude lux reading, the L4 was 420 and the A2 was 2460. As I believe this illustrates what we have known from all of the mods, a 5W needs a larger diameter than an incan to tighten up in beam and get the lux numbers and throw. If you want throw, wait for the KL5 or KL6 or grab the A2. If you want good fill in medium range on in to close, in a pocketable flashlight, the L4 won't let you down, IMHO.

- Don

Don, is it because of the wide flood/spot that's probably lowering the KL4's LUX output? Do you think it's close to its 65 lumens rating?

Don,

The L4 reads 420 lux? That's little more than my Arc LSH-P. I would have expected much more.

My A2 measured between 2100 and 2400, so our meters are not that much different. All I can deduce from this is that the L4 has a lot more spill relative to center beam, or that the beam is substantially wider, than either the A2 or Arc LS. And that this is because the area that's glowing is larger than the 1 watt Luxeon or the A2 filament. Does that sound right?

Yeah, I guess it does. As I continue to reread your post, I am beginning to understand. Maybe the L4 would make a good reading light. I had a LGI Classic that worked really well for reading. If the L4 beam is wide enough, it could surpass the LGI for this function.

Uh-oh. I see that I am beginning to ramble -- talking to myself. Sorry to drag you through that. But perhaps there's a piece of it that's useful to others. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Paul

P.S. Thanks for the beamshots. They tell so much.

I'm really looking forward to receiving my L4 in a couple days to see the beam in person. 420 doesn't sound that good, but that just means there is more flood light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif . With this light that is what I'm hoping for, nice white area light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hi guys,

Yes I do think the L4 is putting out the stated lumens. The reflected spot is large in diameter and since it's a HD (lambertian) much of the light is getting out directly or as spill. The Arc LSH-P may be close to the L4 in lux and if you compare the two lights, you will see how lux can be very misleading. If the center beam of the Arc LSH-P is a base ball, the L4's center beam is a soccer ball. Lumens alone can be misleading as well.

As has been discussed here before, a two dimensional beam shot on a flat surface does have information. However, a real world photograph using various lights as the sole source of illumination can be even more telling.

The center beam of the L4 I have has a very slight cold spot in the center. This is much less pronounced than the spot in the center of the 30 mm optic with a 5W. In both cases, I think this null is a result of truly focusing the optic about the LED. I have read where some are lifting the optic up a bit in the case of the 30 mm. In the PM6 mods, when you get the tightest beam there is a null as well. Backing the LED out a bit removes it in the PM6 without opening up the beam much at all. All of these observations are instructive but in actual use, even with the 30 mm, the beams are all useful in illuminating the target area and you have to look at the beam instead of the target to hope to see any disparity.

I think beam comparisons and intensity measurements are very useful tools for evaluating and comparing various lights but they don't tell the whole story and in some cases their significance is simply not. Lux is real important to some of us. OK, what is the lux of high noon? A cloudy or foggy day? A full moon?

When I built my first light from scratch, I knew I wanted a even flood beam and that's what I made. I figured I stood a reasonable chance of getting boo'd here on CPF but everyone was very kind and complimentary about the light; I doubt many found it a design that they would be interested in. A few months went by and a group of us got together and decided to make a small run of lights for ourselves that would have the option of a flood beam. We stuck with the name McLux and now I am amazed at how well received it has been! Certainly a flood beam is not everyone's choice but many have added it to their illumination quiver. I don't recall seeing too much said about the lux reading of a McFlood outfitted light nor do I recall seeing many beam shots.

I guess what's trying to surface here in my rambling is that I think you guys will find that the L4 does have a beam, unlike the McFlood certainly. The L4 does have some throw as well. But the L4 has something else too that is indicated by its luminous output; it has presence. It returns a useful image where there had been darkness before.

Heck, since I'm really out there right now, let me throw some midnight Zen at you. The ultimate beam of light is not seen; only by its reflection do we know it's there.

Yeah, it's bed time.............

- Don

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McGizmo said:
The ultimate beam of light is not seen; only by its reflection do we know it's there.


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Now that's deep. I think I understand what that Grasshopper was doing in the L4 photo now.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Graham