Need help refuting a post about CR123A & RCR123A batteries

Dr Jekell

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I am a member on another forum & in a thread about a RCR123A Charger I got this reply:
Dr Jekell wrote:
Just a FYI:

CR123A - Disposable Lithium Battery
RC123A - Rechargeable Li-Ion Battery

CR123A batteries can explode if you try to charge them.


This is quite possibly the most retarded thing I have ever heard. LI batteries are all the same, it's just that some have two extra connections on the battery pak; one is for monitoring circuit current while charging and one is for monitoring battery temperature while charging. Both of these extra connections need to be fully monitored during each charging cycle before a reasonable person can assume the charged battery pack is adequately safe for use when fully charged.

A LI battery has no more propensity to 'explode' than your average NiMH battery; but when it does leak your LI battery is far more useless and far more expensive to legally dispose of. Coupled with the fact that the manufacturers can make each LI battery so much smaller nobody would care about it, and you have the very direct reason why your local trout stream needs to be stocked every year at taxpayers expense instead of naturally rebounding to it's former glory; a reasonable citizen can understand why lately big business has been gaining political ground over local environmental groups. Don't pretend they have nothing to gain by misleading you.

Could some one help me form a logical reply with information on the different chemistries between CR123A & RCR123A batteries and why it is a bad idea to try to charge a CR123A battery.
 

LEDninja

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Why do Sony spend millions and millions of dollars recalling Li-ion battery packs?

I think the other poster in your thread is not comparing apples to apples. He/she/it is referring to laptop style battery packs ("it's just that some have two extra connections on the battery pak").
I think you have to tell him/her/it that you are not talking battery packs (often with protection built in either in the pack itself or the laptop) but raw cells usually without built in protection.

There is a sub-forum for this topic:
CandlePowerForums > Flashlights > Flashlight Electronics - Batteries Included > Smoke and Fire, Hot Cells and Close Calls - The dangerous side of batteries

As that is a new sub-forum, for horror stories often with pics, search CPF for 'lithium battery explosion (or explodes)' then post the links in the other forum.
 

ANDREAS FERRARI

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Dr Jekell-that 'person' responding to your answer has been a member of that forum for only 11 days.I f I were you his opinion would not even mean s*** to to me!!!

Let his ignorant response go.
 
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Benson

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Link to the appropriate Wikipedia articles. Last I looked, that gives you quite a decent overview on the main stuff, and should be able to help anyone willing to learn to understand the difference. Some details are missing or underdescribed, but no glaring errors.

OTOH, the first thought that crosses my mind is "Troll!", but I've made no effort to check out the poster (or even the forum), choosing to presume you've made sure you aren't being trolled before you posted this here...
 

TooManyGizmos

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Not cool.
mad71.gif
mad71.gif
mad71.gif



ANDREAS ,

You may be right . Please go back and re-read my post, that I edited, even before I saw your reply .

The explanation is there

......... but what do you make of his Sig. line ?

.
 

TooManyGizmos

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I'm sorry-who are you taking about-Dr Jekell-or the troll on the other forum????

ANDREAS ,

I'm sorry too .......... I'm having a bad day

I'm not really sure I understand your question. When I said "you may be right" i meant your reply to me that my post was ... "Not cool"

In my only question in my last post ..........

I was refering to the CPF Sig. line of Dr Jekell (OP) and how it might relate to his post ?


Maybe we should just drop it ....... and move on. I am OT .

I think I will .......... I'm gonna take a "Time Out"

(Andreas , did you read my change in post 2 ? )
 
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Jay R

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I couldn't resist it. I joined the other forum just to post a rely to the Troll. I know, I know, I shouldn't encourage them…
 

divine

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CR123's are non-rechargeable cells, just as you shouldn't recharge a normal alkaline AA battery because it might explode, you shouldn't recharge a CR123.
 

kramer5150

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There are so many incorrect assumptions in that excerpt... heres my reply.

This is quite possibly the most retarded thing I have ever heard. LI batteries are all the same, [kramer] Wrong, Lithium Ion recharge-able cells are made to withstand the rigors of several hundreds of charge-discharge cycles. Lithium primary cells are not, they are one time use only.. by design. Using any cell chemistry beyond its design intent greatly increases likelihood of a cell venting incident. it's just that some have two extra connections on the battery pak; one is for monitoring circuit current while charging and one is for monitoring battery temperature while charging. [kramer] This may be true depending on the pack design. Both of these extra connections need to be fully monitored during each charging cycle before a reasonable person can assume the charged battery pack is adequately safe for use when fully charged. [kramer] yes thats what balanced circuit chargers are designed for, but when charging individual cells or multiple lithium Ion cells in parallelin a CV charge circuit... its a moot point as cell balancing is not needed. (I am no expert on this last topic, I just learned about balanced cell charging this morning).

A LI battery has no more propensity to 'explode' than your average NiMH battery; [kramer] IMHO incorrect, NiMH (as well as Lithium-Ion) cells can vent just as readily when overcharged, or polarity reversed. However, the chemicals vented by NiMH are not nearly as bio-hazardous as Lithium gas. are but when it does leak your LI battery is far more useless and far more expensive to legally dispose of. [kramer] That may be the case, I have never priced the recycle cost of varying cell types. Coupled with the fact that the manufacturers can make each LI battery so much smaller nobody would care about it, [kramer] gross assumption on his part. Here in on the left coast battery recycling is taken very seriously. and you have the very direct reason why your local trout stream needs to be stocked every year at taxpayers expense instead of naturally rebounding to it's former glory; a reasonable citizen can understand why lately big business has been gaining political ground over local environmental groups. Don't pretend they have nothing to gain by misleading you. [kramer] Its not worth my time to even try and comment on this last part.
 
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Dr Jekell

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Everyone thanks for the replies but it looks like Jay R has put the poster firmly in his place & soundly refuted his claims.

Jay R - A thousand thanks to you for doing that.

ANDREAS FERRARI - I did not want to have that type of wrong information floating around in cyberspace where a layperson could pick it up and possibly end up hurting themselves.

TooManyGizmos - While my brain was pretty much already scrambled before I joined ZS, my sig was one that I found in my internet wanderings & I believe that it applies to me as my sense of humour is strange & very black due to my profession (EMS). But I have now removed it.
 

Woods Walker

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Everyone thanks for the replies but it looks like Jay R has put the poster firmly in his place & soundly refuted his claims.

Jay R - A thousand thanks to you for doing that.

ANDREAS FERRARI - I did not want to have that type of wrong information floating around in cyberspace where a layperson could pick it up and possibly end up hurting themselves.

TooManyGizmos - While my brain was pretty much already scrambled before I joined ZS, my sig was one that I found in my internet wanderings & I believe that it applies to me as my sense of humour is strange & very black due to my profession (EMS). But I have now removed it.


Think you did a good job. Heck learned a few things about RCR123s. Looking to get some for my EX10 R2.
 
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fyrstormer

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As far as I know, cylindrical Li-Ions don't need the extra two "monitoring" electrodes on them because the chargers we buy intermittently stop charging so they can measure the battery's voltage.
 

Woods Walker

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This place has been driving me into the poor house. 100 bucks last week alone, and I have gotton off easy compared to some.:D
 

Woods Walker

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I should tell you how much I spent on bare LEDs this past month. :duh2:

This place is killer. I came here just looking to update a few lights for camping/hikes/BOB and what has become of me. Shoot got 3 ZL alone. How the heck did that happen? :confused:

Dr. Jekell.

Don't spend much time in this area. Kinda like the headlamp or LED sections.
 
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Dr Jekell

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At least I get to blame you for something Woods Walker.

I am currently saving to get a Kifaru X-ray & accessories and then you come along and start me looking at the Nitecore Extreme light.

Now thanks to you I have to decide between getting the X-ray first or the nitecore.
 
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