The Mac vs PC thread

Saaby

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First off, this isn't a thread to decide which is better, neither is. It's a thread to discuss the pros and cons of both OSSes

Instead of fighting in other threads about it, where it can come off as hostile, lets discuss it here. I think it's a topic that can be safely discussed, but must be done in the correct place.

I use a Mac because it lets me have all the power of Unix and the ability to tinker with Unix type stuffs all I want while, but when I'm mad at it I can just close the terminal window and use a beautiful, easy to use, well designed OS. Even if everybody did switch to Mac virusses would still be rather rare. Mac, PC or other there has to be a weak point for a virus to attack.

Software can be more expensive but it depends on what you are doing. It's gotten to the point that most people don't need third party software for their Mac, as it comes with an excellent Mail app, scheduling app, movie editing app, photo editing and management...but depending on what you plan on doing the Mac software could actually end up being cheaper than the PC. It's a case by case thing.

I've looked at lots of benchmarks and have decited that (Except maybe with the new G5) it's sixes. You can set up a benchmark to favor either side, and even then it's usually not by that much. I don't care if it takes 3 more seconds to apply a filter to a 300 MB Photoshop file on the Mac, I deal with 3 MB files and it takes a lot of .03 seconds to add up to any real time saved, plus I feel that I easily regain that .03 seconds in less OS crashes, better handing of app crahses, and just having an OS that is easier to work with and just snappier overall.

1 of my 2 issues with the Mac was that I couldn't sync my PocketPC, but some software has just come out that allows me to do just that.

The other is that I want to be an engineer and the industry de facto cad software, mainly AutoCad, doesn't run on Mac. Ok, so I get an older, slightly slower PC to do my AutoCAD homework on. Shouldn't need to upgrade it within the next 10 years because all I'll do on it is CAD. USB KVM switch means all I need is the box, Mac input devices work with Windows and Logitech input devices, my keyboards and mice of choice, happen to work with the Mac too. Also, the awesome pure number crunching power of the G5 gives me hope that maybe Autodesk will see it worthwhile to release AutoCAD for Mac some day.

I don't game. If I gamed it might be a different story. The few games that I play and have loved for life happen to be ones that, until recently, were only on Mac. Most of them have been ported to Windows now but the Mac version remains superior.

Like benchmarks, I won't bring hardware costs into the equation. Fact of the matter is that PowerMacs are very upgradable and all the Macs tend to depreciate much much slower than their PC counterparts. My 450 Mhz Mac does great with audio and video editing and such. You try and do video editing on a 450 Mhz PC, bet you won't last long /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

Charles Bradshaw

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Good points Saaby. However, I see this as more an OS X vs Windows post. Linux is available for both hardware platforms, as well as others. I may either upgrade my hard disks and re-install Mandrake Linux for my primary OS, and limit my use of native windows install for 3D CGI and some games. If I didn't need window for some programs, I would get rid of it in a heartbeat.

I see Windows now as too much of a security risk.
 

Silviron

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I'm just moving three posts from the sobig virus thread that were taking it so far off topic. They are in reply to other guys opinions that we should all go to Macs....
________________________________________________________

I'd buy a Mac except for two things:

I can get or build an equivalent Wintel computer for about half the price of the same power in a Mac.

And of the software I need, the half of it that I can get for a Mac costs 50% more to twice as much as for a PC, and the other half is not available at all.

I do have a Linux box, but there are no drivers available for 3/4 of the peripherals I have and need. I rarely use it except when I just want to learn a little more about it in general or play the chess game that came built in to RH8.

__________________________________________________
I didn't want to pull this thread further off topic, but I have to reply publicly:

Gotta disagree again James- (Unless things have changed a LOT in the last few months) when I was looking for a high end laptop, I SERIOUSLY considered the top end Powerbook. I spent a month comparing prices of hardware and software all over, the 'net, regular mail order, B&M etc. I was actually willing to pay more for the hardware, but not the software. I ended up with a Sony GRV550 that I love, for almost $1000 less than the equivalent Powerbook.

Well, for software:

FrontPage cost about 50% more on averge for a Mac. That is the only program that I really needed specifically that is available for both platforms; I could make do with any good integrated office suite, but need the FrontPage for website design, Sure, Dreamweaver and some of thother high end programs available for a Mac ARE really better than FP, but they aren't what I need, and they are more expensive.

I'd like to have Photoshop for my photo editing, but I am not willing to pay nearly $600 for the latest version... So, I use Paint Shop Pro: It has 95% of the power of PS, but only costs me $80.00. No Mac version of PSP.

If you can show me a program that will let me use my iGage Topographic mapping on a Mac and integrate it with my GPS for real time mapping, I'll be real surprised... It doesn't run on the Mac PC emulator .. I tried.

The tracking / recording software for my multi-meter won't work on a Mac.

Mailwasher doesn't run on a Mac, and I have found it to be invaluable.

There are a few other non critical but occasionally useful programs that I use that don't have a mac version, but you get the idea.

Even if those programs WERE available, why should I spend a 3-4 thousand dollars replacing software I have already own? It might be different if I was starting from scratch, but I'm just not rich enough to switch over.

_______________________________________________________

Tomas: I HATE Photoshop Elements. I have it too; only because it came with the computer though. I mentioned above that the PC emulator on a Mac won't do what I need, I tried.

To be honest, Elements does a pretty good editing photos on an amateur level, but it takes me three times as long to turn out the job as it does on PSP and with PSP I have much more precise control over individual pixels, so that I can take a pretty bad picture and make it look very good on PSP. I can only get a pretty good picture to look better with Elements.

There is really only one control in Elements that I can't do better and faster with PSP: The one that digitally enhances a photo as if you had used a fill flash when you took the picture..
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Sorry about taking that other thread so far off topic.

Understand, I have nothing against Macs except economic issues and lack of compatibility with a lot of the "tools" I need for my odd assortment of businesses and hobbies.

If I were rich and fairly "normal" in my computing needs, I'd probably be using one now.
 

sotyakr

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About the only two things I wish my Mac could do was to easily connect to my Magellan Sportrak Pro GPS, and run Zoo Tycoon. As it is, I have to use a friend's PC to load maps.

Speaking of which, having really only used Apples and Macs for my entire computing "life", everytime I have to use a PC, it's like getting off a plane in a foreign country. Sometimes you're supposed to drive on the other side of the road, and the road signs don't always make much sense. But somehow, I usually manage to find my way. This isn't a knock on Windoze, umm excuse me... Windows, I'm sure PC users say the same about using a Mac. Then again, going from OS9 to OS X sometimes felt the same way.

Now that Aspyr has ported Zoo Tycoon to the Mac, at least that's one down. Yeah, just what I needed. After a day of taking care of animals at work, I can come home and spend another few hours doing the same...
 

Saaby

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sotyakr, have you done a Versiontracker.com search for 'GPS' I think I've seen a few things on there, but I often hear incompatability with GPSs as a deciding factor against the Mac so maybe the solutions I've heard of work poorly.

In any case I've heard rumors that GPS software is coming this way.


Silviron, maybe you can get a Mac anyway. This is going to sound odd, but if you can do 70%+ computing on the Mac than maybe it wouldn't be such a bad investment. Then again, if you're keeping the PC for Paint Shop Pro and 90% of your computing is using Paint Shop Pro... When I switched I thought I'd be on the PC a lot, but I was wrong. By any chance have you tried Gimp? I think there's an OS X version of it. I mean this still addresses only half your issues, but I just wondered.
 

jtice

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Leave it to Sab to start this kinda thread.

He thinks he is a Mac sales rep.

No one has the heart to tell him hes delusional though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif
 

shiftd

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[ QUOTE ]
jtice said:
Leave it to Sab to start this kinda thread.

He thinks he is a Mac sales rep.

No one has the heart to tell him hes delusional though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

More like Mac technical support /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

btw, i think you are telling him that now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

Tomas

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I'm a UNIX user, have been since June 3, 1982. That's also when I first posted to USENET and when I sent my first electronic mail (it wasn't called "e-mail" yet).

This particular UNIX box I'm running is an Apple Macintosh.

The GUI (Aqua) that Apple puts over the top of their version of BSD UNIX (Darwin) is very nice and effective, and works better than any of the other GUI's I've tried over the years.

The overall combination of Aqua and Darwin is called OS X and the version I'm running these days, 10.2.6, is called Jaguar. The next major release, later this year, is called Panther.

My biggest adjustment has been getting away from the Bourne shell and getting used to the "C" shell (Bourne is the original BTL UNIX shell and "C" is the one from Berkeley).

With a solid and proved UNIX base, and the best of the available GUI's, I find this to be a good choice.

Now I'm going to go away because I think constantly battling about "which OS is better" is pointless in many cases, because they are all as good as is required by their respective users, and all do their jobs in a satisfactory manner.

Each person will think "their OS" is the better one, just as Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Honda, Mercedes, Porsche, Peterbuilt, and Fiat drivers all think their particular ride is the right choice.

Thing is, EACH ONE is probably a good choice DEPENDING ON ONES USES. Hauling a 60 foot trailer full of machine parts is best done with a Peterbuilt or Kenworth, not a Porsche or Honda, for example, while competing an a Rallye is not a Peterbuilt or Kenworth high point ...

You pick your tools to do your job. If your job requires a Wintel machine, so be it. If your job is best done with a Mac, great! If your job is best done with a Cray, good luck (but at least you'll like the common OS shared with the Mac ...)
disco.gif


Caio!
T_sig6.gif
fan.gif
 

LukeK

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Ah yes -- Saaby with his never-ending mac plug. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I'm sure Macintosh is just 'the stuff' and is infinitely better than windows, but I, for one, am perfectly happy with Windows. Heck yes, it could be better. But for me, XP is very stable and it runs all of the programs I'm used to. If I had the cash I would purchase a mac, but for now I'm still a poor kid running his cheaply built Win PC. I like mac's in general but the tiny percentage of PCs actually running it has definitely hindered it's progress.

People always fault Windows for it's security flaws and they are justified to some degree. However, if Mac was the dominant OS i'm sure we'd see quite a few security flaws in its design. The only reason we don't know about its flaws is because they haven't been exploited yet. The more sophisticated the security, the more sophisticated the attacks. It's a never ending cycle....
Macintosh should be glad they aren't despised as much as Billy Gates and his 'wonderful world of fisher price OSes' is.
 

Saaby

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Tomas, if you don't come back you'll never read this but rumor has it that they go back to Bourne in Panther. What rumor you ask? Well straight from my uncle's mouth.

Geoff, no no no...Pocket Mac is a terrible piece of software. I am glad it's working for your friend, but next time he wants to upgrade it tell him to drop it and get Missing Sync for PocketPC

ticey, shifty.....nevermind, you two are hopeless... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 

GeoffChan

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Saaby, I'll let him know. Thank god i own palm and it works great on both OS Platforms /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

My workmates are beta testing Panther, I'll ask them.

I rather wait till 10.3 goes gold /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif

Geoff
 

Silviron

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Ryan, I have used GIMP. I'm very impressed with it.
The version that I last actually used.. (I think it came with RH7, although it may have been whatever compilation I used just before that.) was almost identical to PSP5. Considering that it is "free" it is a the best bargain of image processing.

The only trouble is that none of my card readers nor any of my cameras, nor my printer will work under Linux. So, I'd have to download them to Windows (or my non existant Mac) and burn them to a CD or ZIP drive. (Or figure out how to network to my laptop, which I have tried 3 times, and only completely screwed up the Linux installation).

I wonder if ANY of the reasonably priced digital card readers run under Linux with an easily found and installed driver??

Plus, I haven't figured out how to get decent monitor color management with my graphics card under Linux, and I really kind of need that. Maybe a better card would help there though. What I get isn't bad for general computing, but not for serious graphics manipulation.

Even if I could do ALL my work on a Mac, I wouldn't change now. The economics just isn't there, and this Sony GRV550 is an incredible machine and has been absolutely stable with XP (which surprises me).

If I were to get successful and start making big bucks with my new efforts in photography, I'd probably invest in a Mac G5 and a 23" Apple or Sony super graphics monitor, and spend the $600 on Photoshop too, as a dedicated graphics unit. But, I'm not holding my breath on making a profit on this new avocation.
 

DieselDave

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[ QUOTE ]
Saaby said:
...if you can do 70%+ computing on the Mac than maybe it wouldn't be such a bad investment.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are satisfied with being able to accomplish 70% of what you need to do then I must agree Mac would make a fine choice and it's fast. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What does it really matter? Me using win 98, Tomas running Unix and Sabby Mac'ing doesn't affect how the others machine performs. I like Win 98, it does 100% of what I need it to do and I am happy. Sabby's Mac is a wonderful thing and Tomas is right where he wants to be. It's not a clear difference like 10-lumen verses 500-lumen, it's about tradeoffs and comfort. I could buy a new Mac or new top of the line Windows machine and I might be just a hair better off, so what.
 

Saaby

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Go Re-Read Tomas' post. We're both running the same Unix /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

raggie33

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i like mac.s os.but i like to build my own pc.s and thats just not done with a mac!
 

Tomas

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[ QUOTE ]
raggie33 said:
i like mac.s os.but i like to build my own pc.s and thats just not done with a mac!

[/ QUOTE ]

Not being rude, really, but that's one reason Macs work 99.9999% of the time ...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 

raggie33

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yeah i imagine quality controll is easier to keep on a good level when they do it all.
 

Ginseng

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Well, I think it boils down to this:

"Macs rule and PCs suck." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

No, seriously, it is an issue of software and connectivity. While I can do everything I need to do with my "ball" i-mac, HP only supplies the bare minimum in terms of peripheral support. Epson, slightly better. On the plus, I haven't had a virus infestation in the 12 years I've had my various macs. On my work PCs, it's been a constant struggle to stay current with AV software updates. On the minus, 95% of the computing, developing, peripheraling world assumes the Mac doesn't even exist. Clearly contrary to what Apple would have you believe.

Mac+Mac OS X = Homo Sapiens
PC + Windows = Neanderthal...on dope

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Wilkey
 
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