Looking to Replace my Surefire E2D with ??

I have had my Surefire E2d for a couple of years now.
I love the form factor, ease of carry, compactness and build quality. I use it for its lighting properties, as well as its crenelated bezels (both ends)
The only thing is that it goes thru those xenon bulbs pretty quickly, which can get expensive.
In the winter, I carry it on the inside pocket of my jacket, and when its warm out, I carry it in my front pocket of my jeans. Head up makes it easy to do that.

I know there is the Surefire E2D LED, but I have not purchased that light due to >
1) price (approx. $160)
2) gotta be something better regarding price point, run time (although 2 Hrs. is pretty good,) OTF lumen (although 200 lumens is pretty good also.) The E2D LED is a little long with that LED head on it.
I would pay up to $100 though for a replacement.
That E2D has grown on me though

So I am looking for a replacement for EDC, with the approximate size and form factor as the E2D. If there was a drop in for the E2D, I would consider that, but I don't know if that's available. I gotta search regarding that one.

As I mentioned previously, I am awaiting the EagleTac P20C2 MKll, but I think it carries head down, which may be an issue regarding the bezel chewing up my pocket. I have not held one, but the specs appear to be similar to the E2D re: Size.

Any recommendations are welcomed.

As I was reading your post, the P20C2 went through my mind as an alternative to your E2D - funny that you have one on order. Give the new light a try before you jump on anything else. I've got one, and while it is a little big for my preferences in an EDC (I pocket a Nitecore Defender Infinity), I strap it on every time I'm going to be out in the woods. The head-down clip works fine for me, as my preference is not to have the lens exposed to all my clumsiness.

Others with more experience can point you to other drop-ins for your EDL, but Kuku427 on this board makes a very attractive series of drop-ins for E model Surefires. I have one in an E2D - two stage, neutral tint, which I love. It has a nice spot and huge spill. So much, in fact, that the crenelations give the beam a sharply scalloped shape. The drop-in would probably be more compatible with a non-crenelated bezel, and the beam isn't as throwy as either an E2DL or the P20C2.

As always, you have options.

HoWink

@HoWink

Good advice to wait for the P20C2 MKll. I also ordered the optional aluminum stand up tail cap. I was not too sure I would like the rubber stand up. Plus the aluminum stand up tail cap will be slightly higher than the click button to avoid accidental activation.
Btw, I was looking at the JETBeam RTT-0 w/ R5, for a reliable single cell light. Looks sweet.
I saw a drop in for the E2D. I may just keep it the way it is, and spend the bucks on another light, if need be.

Since you alleady have the P20C2, is the 'real world' size very similar to the E2D?

Unfortunately, the Eagletac is up in the north Georgia mountains with my wife this weekend :huh:, so I can't hold them side-by-side right now for you. They are roughly the same size, which to me, is a little bigger than pocket size, but still very comfortable on the belt or clipped to the inside of a pocket. It's kind of like handguns. To me, there are only three basic sizes: Pocket carry, like a Ruger LCP; compact for inside-the-waistband carry, like the Walther PPS; and full-size, like a Sig P226 or 1911. YMMV.

HoWink

The S&W 342PD (pre-lock) is real nice.
Took me a while to pick one up

If you still want stick with SF Simple UI dan Toughness, check out this item on MP bofore he gone:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=236720

It said Brand New E2DL in sealed blister he asking for USD.80

I bought my E2DL last year on blister package, it says 120 lumen. When i compared to my SF LX2 the brightness nearly the same. Emailed the SF and the SF CS said they actually start shipping E2DL 200 lumen on blister package which is said 120 on it.

If you lucky enough you might get those E2DL 200 lumen version on Blister package rated 120 lumen for 80 bucks !

njet212 said:

If you still want stick with SF Simple UI dan Toughness, check out this item on MP bofore he gone:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=236720

It said Brand New E2DL in sealed blister he asking for USD.80

I bought my E2DL last year on blister package, it says 120 lumen. When i compared to my SF LX2 the brightness nearly the same. Emailed the SF and the SF CS said they actually start shipping E2DL 200 lumen on blister package which is said 120 on it.

If you lucky enough you might get those E2DL 200 lumen version on Blister package rated 120 lumen for 80 bucks !

Click to expand...

Thanks for the Heads up
I already purchased the
MG P-Rocket SST-50 Premium 800+ Lumens Compact LED Flashlight

Rather not take the risk of it not being the 200 lumen version.
Btw, I made a post awaiting moderation re: not being 200 lumen.
But that was before I read your whole reply....

Do not replace your SF E2D as it's good as it is. Also there is a drop in LED module for your light. Instead of buying a new light for hundreds of dollars, get an upgrade parts for you new light. Most Surefire lights are rechargeable unfriendly as their drivers are tune for use with primary cells. This is a really unlikable feature for me.:ironic:

kuku427 offers an XPG emitter module with AMC chip linear regulator tower. It fit in like a regular E-series lamp assembly. What you get is something that's way better then anything Surefire have to offer right now. It's been tested that you get more then 275 lumen out the font. With 17670 cells you are all set up with a rechargeable high power EDC. Also it's been tested it will last you an hour on high with the 17670 fully regulated. :candle:

For something about $50 I say go for it. There are a lot of good review for the modules. Check out the formal review by a CPF member here, it says nothing but good things about the upgrade.

Here is the sale link for you: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=229715

I always go by the saying why mess with something that works?

Ok, if you are not going to buy Steve's module and still wants to run on CR123a. Fine be that way and buy Surefire's newest head for the E-series. If I remembered it right it's the new Scout light head and it's the KX2C. Which cost over $130 if I remembered right. Don't go with this route as you are going have to stay with CR123a primaries.

I hope that you stick by you Defender as it's just the best option to me.:thumbsup:

I hear you, and thanks for the great advice.
I will check out those drop ins for the E2D, as it is a great platform.
I have been using 123A as primaries for years.
I am new to the Rechargeables, so will have to start learning about them.
From what I have read, the pluses are >>
1) more run time at the highest level
2) less cost regarding replacement
3) higher running level

and probably other attributes.
It appears the AWs are one of the best, as well as the Pila chargers, but am not sure. Round top, flat top, different mAh, etc. gets a little confusing.
I want to start off on the right foot regarding the rechargeables, since it will be a fresh start being not having any.
Thanks again.

Edit > I sent an email to Steve with a couple of ?'s as the thread gets a little confusing to me re: which the best drop in is.
I would like a 3 position, cool white 1.4a on High, but I see he has a 1 amp on high, which appears to be recommended.

If you are going to get 17670 cells for your E2D, you may have to sand the cell plastic film in order to get it fit inside. My AW 17670 does fit in my newer E2E without sanding but it's a tight fit.

Overall AW is the only one who really offers a rechargeable for surefire with a good capacity. About the mAh it's the rating of the cell stored power or the work it can do in an hour. The higher is better, but some company will lie to you about the discharge mAh. Especially the Chinese company like whatever fire will tell you a capacity rating beyond the physical limits of a cell body. About the flat top and button top is just the physical shape of the + side of the cell. Button top is like the regular AA cell with a small piece of metal sticking out. While flat tops are just flat without the small metal sticking out and may cause some contact issues with some light. I personally don't worry about small thing like that. I have both used the flat and button top cells in my Surefire lights for awhile now and they both work well.

About using Pila charger, it's one of the best out there for Li-ion cells. Although the cost is very expensive for a charger to me. I personally uses a charger call "Shekor" charger that is being sold by Kai domain. Do a search on the CPF google search and you will find that it's a really good charger. The charger will charge 18650 to anything smaller then 16340(Rechargeable CR123A with 3.7v) The charger will actually charge up the cells only up to 4.15v or less. This means your cell will last a bit longer and the charger is very safe. For example other charger like the DSD wll actually do trickle charge on the cell, which is one of the worst thing to do to li-ion cells.

I have offered all the tips that I can think of right now and I think you are really off to a great start. I hope that what I have offered would have you out down the road.:thumbsup:

biker1 said:

Edit > I sent an email to Steve with a couple of ?'s as the thread gets a little confusing to me re: which the best drop in is.
I would like a 3 position, cool white 1.4a on High, but I see he has a 1 amp on high, which appears to be recommended.

Click to expand...

Ok, personally I would get the XPG R4 neutral white emitter. The R4 don't lose too much in power out put. As cool white light does not penetrate snow and rain too well. As the light actually get reflected back to you and you kind of blind yourself. Also about the drive current being 1amp is because that's where is the limit on 1 cell rechargeable is. Anything over that is a waste of energy and trust me on that. On 1.4amp the light maybe brighter for less then 5 minutes of use and it's back to same output of 1amp drive current. Check out the tread on bigchelis tread on his "Sphere of Truth" and scroll down to kuku47's drop in.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/260659

bigchelis test result showed that on the 1.4amp drive current the driver basically wastes the .4 amp current. The result of the light out put is just about the same after 30 seconds of use. Why waste more cell charge for 30 seconds more brightness? Also the cell can only do that for less then 5 minutes of use.

Here is what I will get for myself: Two mode 1.0 amp: 2.8 - 6v, 115ma, 1.0A. Two second memory with the XPG R4 neutral white emitter. This I get a light that can see through rain and snow better, plus I can use primaries CR123a if I needed to. Also with the 2 mode it's just way smarter to me on the driver Steve is using. It's a linear regulator from the Najin company(I forgotten the name) and they have this 2 seconds mode change feature. It's a feature not found on many light as it really different. What happens is that if turn on the light for 2seconds on that mode it will lock on to as the default setting for next time. It you change the mode to the next level for 1 second the driver will not lock on to it. It's kind of hard to explain with words, but 3 level will actually be not so useful that's all.

If you buy the the tower with 2 level driver, you can change mode very quickly if the stupid light won't lock on to the setting that you want. Why Steve used this driver because it's the most efficient driver(95% efficient most of the time) on the market for lowest price.(more cost for parts means more money you have to pay for the drop in) The only problem you have to deal with it's the 2sec lock on mode change thing.

Lastly I got a good feeling that you won't be using the mid model too much with rechargeable cells. You probably will be recharging you cells every so often that you don't need to save the cell's charges anyway. Go full BLAST all the time! If you need to read or save energy the low mode would be very good already. As in the woods a candle light would good enough to light up the whole camp.

So this tread have actually taken more time to update then I would have thought. LOL Well this is what CPF is all about. :grouphug:

Well pass on the knowledge is what I say.lovecpf

Tremendous amount of help, and I really appreciate it.
I think I may get the cool white though, as I believe it will be brighter.
The weather is not that much of an issue for me, but I appreciate the heads up.
Thanks again for all you effort you put into your posts to help me out :thumbsup:
Those drop ins look really nice, and I'll have a completely new light

EDIT >>
I read the thread and saw only good things as you said. I just ordered the Shekor charger at kaidomain for $10.99 including shipping.
Now I have to order >>

1) AW 18650 cells for the MG P-Rocket SST-50 Premium 800+ Lumens soon to be received
2) AW 17670 cells for the soon to be purchased drop in from Steve.

Would 2-4 of each suffice? I have to see how many charges these are good for. Minimum of 2 ea. so I have a spare to drop in just in case.

I will search, but if you have any recommendations where to purchase lithium rechargeables, as you did with kaidomain and the charger, I would appreciate it.

Well since I already helped you out, why don't I finished answering your questions.

About the Cree cool white emitter, I still think it's not a good idea. The fact is that Cree cool white emitter maybe brighter on paper, but not to our eyes. The spectrum of light that we can detect is more in line of lime,green and yellow. Blue itself is a visible spectrum, but our eyes can only detect so much of it. Cree cool white emitter can produce a lot of blue light but it's useless if we can't use it. Isn't that's right? For a Cree neural emitter it produces a bit more cyan, green, lime, yellow, and red. Which are the colors that our eyes can detect best.Check out visible spectrum on wiki if you want to know more. Our eyes just can't really detect blue as well at the "colors of nature". This is why I always recommend high CRI over lumen level. Even with LED it won't be as good as incandescent still. If you are used to incandescent, I think you would actually hate cool white. To me cool white light will actually makes everything merges together for me. I truly hate this about the cool white Cree emitters. A rule of thumb is that warmer the tint the better for our eyes to detect usable light when it comes to Cree LED emitters.

So you ask me how long will Li-ion cells will last? It really depends on how you treat the cells yourself. If you charge them to the max voltage and beyond they won't last more then like 20 charges. If you take care of them and charge to only 4 volts the cell will last longer. Also if you discharge the cell with a high current application it will again loses it's life time. Cell life also depends on the ambient temperature of your environment. The higher temperature you expose your cells to the shorter their lives would be. Also if you expose cells above 60 degrees Celsius, you reached the maximum temperature limit of any Li-ion cells chemistry. So do not leave your cells or light inside a hot car in the sun. It's very unsafe and unwise to do so in my opinion.

I personally have 2 li-ion cells for one light. This is the fact that once li-ion cell are made their chemical will oxidize right away. So if you leave li-ion around they will break themselves down overtime. The least amount of cells you need to do work is what I recommend to you. I know that AW have a sale tread in CPFMP forum. He will ship out the cells to you from Hong Kong and it will take about a week for the items to arrive to North America.

I personally buys my cells from Lumen Factory. This way I can buy the cells and at the same time my lamp modules for my E2E. If you like power and 100 CRI(meaning the lamp will give out 100% visible color) I will try the IMR series lamp assembling, and buy 2 16340 IMR cells. This combination with the E2E is my favorite of all little EDC light.

Also if you are not willing to wait for your cells, Lighthound is another good place to buy cells from. They do offer AW brand Li-ion cells but they are about 50cents more expensive. They are based in the USA so you will get your cells extremely fast. Plus they offer lumen factory upgrades as well. LOL:twothumbs

Anyway I got to go to sleep very soon. It's a good thing it is Saturday today. Nope actually Sunday is today. Haha

I have owned the E2D, at the time it was my favorite light (also the first and only surefire I owned).

I upgraded to the E2DL, it feels a little top heavy at first. I got used to it pretty quickly though. There are many in the MP and they sell for very reasonable prices.

@someuser

'I will try the IMR series lamp assembling, and buy 2 16340 IMR cells. This combination with the E2E is my favorite of all little EDC light. '

So I should get the above suggested cells, over the 17670's?

And thanks for all the info.
Especially regarding the Cool White vs. Neutral
Extra lumen don't make sense, if you can't perceive the difference as it relates to CRI. Neutral will appear brighter due to more perceivable CRI, even though it emits less lumen.

Does the same principle apply to the SST-50 emitter in the MG P-Rocket SST-50 Premium 800+ Lumens Compact LED Flashlight, as it does to the Cree LED, in regards to the neutral vs. the cool white, and perceivable lumen? Because if it does, I will change the order to the 700+ SST-50.
See what you started lol!!

I spoke to Surefire a few months ago, regarding the perceivable lumen power of the CW LED vs. Incandescent. I told him I had an LED light rated at a higher lumen rating then the Incandescent, but that the incandescent bulbed flashlight 'hurt' my eyes more. I assumed, because of this, that an Incandescent would be a better tactical light source than an LED. He said that the Incandescent, at the same lumen as the cw, would appear brighter to the eye. If I remember correctly.
And that has to do with the perceivable CRI. The colors (wave-lengths) our eyes can perceive

The fact is that Cree cool white emitter maybe brighter on paper, but not to our eyes.

Click to expand...

He said that the Incandescent, at the same lumen as the cw, would appear brighter to the eye.

Click to expand...

That's not quite correct. Lumens are weighted to perceived brightness already:

The lumen (symbol: lm) is the SI unit of luminous flux, a measure of the power of light perceived by the human eye. Luminous flux differs from radiant flux, the measure of the total power of light emitted, in that luminous flux is adjusted to reflect the varying sensitivity of the human eye to different wavelengths of light.

Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumen_(unit)

Well to me if there are more color that I can see, I therefore can see more. Also CRI really just tells you at what Kelvin degree you get how much color rendering power. So 100 CRI at 3000k only comparing to other 3000k light sources and not with 4000 k and so on. This I don't think I can explain more as this goes beyond my scope of knowledge on this subject. So closer to 5000k 100 CRI would be ideal but of course this is the real world.

To determined what's good or bad for a light you got to try it in the real world first then make a judgment. To me cool white is one of the worst thing out there. When I light up trees and things outside, it kind of merges them together. Plus a 10 extra lumen won't be noticeable for every level of flux bin you drop down. I can't tell too much difference between a R2 to a R5. Then again this is only my opinion on things.

About the IMR combination, it's a high current incandescent. So you only get a run time of 15 minutes or less. To me my E2E is my back up light after my C2. Which I put in a P60 drop in from Nailbender which have 2 warm white Q5 flux bin emitter in it. It's basically a direct drive, but I need that for work as it doesn't have a hot spot.

I got a feeling that I am opening a can of worms with this warm white vs cool white. There is a reason why a lot senior members here uses warm white. I feel that they have seen what is cool white and warm white. In effect they made a choice base on their preference. To me the most senior members here prefers incandescent over anything else. They like incandescent so much Five mega stills makes his custom bulbs and after market gears. I want the turbo head so much for the E-series but it only works with his own custom bulb. I want his E-series body too that can use 18350!

So I think this would be ideal for you get a cool white light, a warmer white light to make a comparison. Like I said before for people who are color weak, cool white can look like pure white to them. So each to their own is what I can make out. Find your own truth is a better way to learn in this game.

The E2D with Steve Ku's 230 Lumen R5 Drop In should make for an awesome combination.
Btw, I just received the EagleTac P20C2 MKll, and the power (300 Lumen OTF) from this small light is amazing. About the same size as the E2D.

I just bought an E2DL and I still want to upgrade my E2d with one of these drop ins, they look very promising!